New Ex-Pro recounts doping practices

[flicker]

This is how simple it was , the rider has a drinks can with clean urine (for obvious reasons of dehydration it can be very difficult to pee to order and many riders find the need to drink quite a lot before there able to give a sample) and took the can into the toilet cubicle, puts it on the cystern, pulls his shirt up, shorts down( he might even turn round to show theres no tubes) and then just waits for a sutable moment to pour the urine from the drinks can ( long waits are very commen!) The urine from the drinks can is kept warm by holding it and so doesnt arouse suspition.
Not exactly rocket science eh!

When I am drug tested there is a test to see if urine is in the temperature range. 99o-96o. this can of course be circumvented by an artificial urine pack with a built in warmer to keep at proper temp. My tests are for "my mental health of course" and nothing to do with my fine fine super fine competitve cycling ability.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

When I am drug tested there is a test to see if urine is in the temperature range. 99o-96o. this can of course be circumvented by an artificial urine pack with a built in warmer to keep at proper temp. My tests are for "my mental health of course" and nothing to do with my fine fine super fine competitve cycling ability.

And where, pray tell, do you manage to hide all this gear? It may be a little telling when you waddle into testing with 20 metres of bright orange extension cord getting dragged behind you...

 

[flicker]

And where, pray tell, do you manage to hide all this gear? It may be a little telling when you waddle into testing with 20 metres of bright orange extension cord getting dragged behind you...

all on the internet my friend.

 

[python]

Well if they apply the masking agent to the tip prior to going in to the control trailer no amount of glove and hand washing is going to help out. snip

this simple fact will be overlooked (as it has been in earlier threads) timed and again. don't know why. it's been discussed for years that riders insert grain-sized substances into urethra or use catheters.

 

[jimmypop]

this simple fact will be overlooked (as it has been in earlier threads) timed and again. don't know why. it's been discussed for years that riders insert grain-sized substances into urethra or use catheters.

That's some serious conviction to cheating. Jesus.

 

[compete_clean]

Not sure how relevant this is because I was tested in the late eighties early nineties and I don't think they tested as often then as they do now. The 'observer' was always very close by and I assumed they were watching me do my business. TBH I wasn't paying too much attention. I was clean and was there to get it done.

I don't know the methods of cheating the urine test but I do know that there was a lot of activity between teammates, managers and staff when they got called to dope control.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

When I am drug tested there is a test to see if urine is in the temperature range. 99o-96o. this can of course be circumvented by an artificial urine pack with a built in warmer to keep at proper temp. My tests are for "my mental health of course" and nothing to do with my fine fine super fine competitve cycling ability.

When I was an administrative judge for the City of NY in the 1990s, I heard a civil service discipline action for a guy who was accused of switching urine. The way they caught him was that none of his samples had any or nearly no creatine. If you're alive with functioning kidneys, you have a certain level of that in your urine. To make a long story short, he would come to the clinic to give his sample when ordered, wait ten or twenty minutes and then say he had to go to the restroom to take a dump. While in the stall, unsupervised, he would void his bladder, insert a catheter and refill his bladder with something non-urine, like apple juice (my guess). He claimed to have a friend who was a trainer with a pro football team who told him that was how NFL players beat the drug testing in their league.

And then there was the urine switching case with the defense of the small penis. But, that's for another time.

 

[Mondrian]

I think you guys need to get with the times - all that is relevant to 80's & 90's these days those who dope use one of the following methods I am sure more than a few dopers visit forums so not sure why they don't enlighten us with the latest techniques - perhaps they are worried about getting caught in case some federal agent traces their post but hey I don't dope and don't race so no worries here.

1 - Winter loading - ever wondered why pro's go to places such as Ivory Coast for their off season holiday! No doping control officals there, so they can load up on what-ever they like by taking into account the half-life of the drug vs their next possible doping control.

Even for cat 1 & continental level cyclists its common to load up during their strength training in winter when they will not be participating at any competitions & therefore no controls.

2 - there are lots of products that don't show up in a urine test and only show in a blood test - they know which competitions have blood control and which ones only urine control - in case there is a surprise then they just hide in the back of the peloton or DNF siting injury or crash.

3 - Alternative drugs, there are products out there that are not on the WADA list such as diluted bi-carbonate of soda (IV) which is injected - while the method is illegal the drug is not so all you need to do is to go to the toilet 20 min before an ITT and don't try it - its very dangerous.

4 - Doctor certificates - easy enough!

5 - Of course all the above are the poor man's choices - what they dope with is dependant on how much they have or earn so the higher up the pay scale they are the more sophisticated the products and hence reduced risk of getting caught. An Elite level cyclist can do a winter's worth of quality doping with 5 - 10 000 $. Professional Tdf style doping costs a lot of money as it involves blood doping - I have heard 100 000 + euro which sounds about right when you take into account cost of doctors, tests, drugs, micro-dosing, blood transfusion etc - & then there are lawyers. So only top team leaders & maybe their super domestique's can afford it as your average guy in proteam earns 50 000 euro or less - unless the team pays for it.

6 - Team managers/owners earn their reputation by developing sophisticated doping network/system and can therefore attract/keep top cyclists who are into it so if you want to know who they are its easy just pick the top 2-3 of Tdf and top classics and see the common denominator (team).

7 - A lot of the lower level doping know-how & cheating methods is coming from body-builders and in case you wondering EPO also helps with their recovery so contrary to popular belief EPO is not made for endurance sports, even track sprinters use them and those guys spend more time inthe gym than on their bike.

Sponsors always look the other way till someone gets busted and then they put out a statement saying they support clean sport and that's why they will pull the plug but go and make a personal contract with the next available guy who everyone knows is a doper - of course Media know everything as they are in all the races and know all the guys and see how one guys is huffing and puffing one day only to break some climbing record the following week but won't/can't publish due to legal reasons and unfortunately when once in a while a clean guy manages to break into the top 3 at Tdf they somehow get negative publicity - ala Sastre & Evans which I think is the biggest crime of all - there are lots of clean guys out there and the Media and Sponsors need to embrace them and not those who have big questions marks on them. So if you really want a clean sport then write to Specialized, trek & SRAM and tell them the next time someone on their bikes is associated with doping you will stop buying their products for life - that is how you fight doping - UCI may not be able to successfully prosecute someone for doping through biological passport but the big companies can certainly insist on approving their biological blood profile and the format of their contract with the team i.e. add a clause in their contract fining them 5 x their annual salary in case they get caught (ala katusha). That would send a clear signal, hell you don' even need to write just stop buying and know that you are also doing your bit to clean up your sport.

 

[NashbarShorts]

That was back in the 80's. It's different now.

Huh? Willy Voet was the Festina team soigneur, busted in summer of '98, so his book probably came out in '99.

Please tell us about how different it was at your last pee test?

 

[NashbarShorts]

So if you really want a clean sport then write to Specialized, trek & SRAM and tell them the next time someone on their bikes is associated with doping you will stop buying their products for life - that is how you fight doping - .

Armstrong is a part-owner of SRAM, and to a much smaller extent Trek (I beleive). Good luck w/ that!

 

[flicker]

When I was an administrative judge for the City of NY in the 1990s, I heard a civil service discipline action for a guy who was accused of switching urine. The way they caught him was that none of his samples had any or nearly no creatine. If you're alive with functioning kidneys, you have a certain level of that in your urine. To make a long story short, he would come to the clinic to give his sample when ordered, wait ten or twenty minutes and then say he had to go to the restroom to take a dump. While in the stall, unsupervised, he would void his bladder, insert a catheter and refill his bladder with something non-urine, like apple juice (my guess). He claimed to have a friend who was a trainer with a pro football team who told him that was how NFL players beat the drug testing in their league.

And then there was the urine switching case with the defense of the small penis. But, that's for another time.

I saw something like that on the TV show Players. An NFL player is informed of an up coming drug test by his trainers. Right before the testing official showed up a doctor took the NFL star in a side room lubed up a thick piece of surgical tubing lubed it up and slid it deep into the players urethea.
Then he hooked up a syringe as large as a turkey baster and injected urine into the player, through the penis into the bladder!

I just about puked when I saw this. I seriously doubt that happens, much easier to just pay off the drug tester.

I found out about the synthetic urine when I borrowed a friends car and saw the unopened box of Tommy Chongs' synthetic urine. I asked my friend what it was for and she said it was a joke someone gave it to her as a present!

 

[BotanyBay]

That's some serious conviction to cheating. Jesus.

They've been catheterizing "clean" urine for some time now.

But I still agree with the gloves suggestion. There are going to be some days where the rider got lazy and did not bother to contaminate their penis in time.

Also, you could have the rider pee for a certain period of time, stop and then begin again into the sample cup. the initial stream might rid the urethra of any contaminating substance in time. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I think people can agree that we need better quality urine to test.

 

[ElChingon]

So, no one is going to start guessing who the ex-pro is? So far the data is an ex-Italian Pro rider.

 

[Oldman]

I think you guys need to get with the times - all that is relevant to 80's & 90's these days those who dope use one of the following methods I am sure more than a few dopers visit forums so not sure why they don't enlighten us with the latest techniques - perhaps they are worried about getting caught in case some federal agent traces their post but hey I don't dope and don't race so no worries here.

6 - Team managers/owners earn their reputation by developing sophisticated doping network/system and can therefore attract/keep top cyclists who are into it so if you want to know who they are its easy just pick the top 2-3 of Tdf and top classics and see the common denominator (team).

Sponsors always look the other way till someone gets busted and then they put out a statement saying they support clean sport and that's why they will pull the plug .

Hope you don't mind me editting but your item 6 appears to be a compelling basis for the USADA investigation.

 

[BotanyBay]

Then he hooked up a syringe as large as a turkey baster and injected urine into the player, through the penis into the bladder!

I just about puked when I saw this. I seriously doubt that happens, much easier to just pay off the drug tester.

It happens with great regularity, actually.

 

[D-Queued]

It happens with great regularity, actually.

Now you know the source of the expressions:

'No pain, no gain'
'When the going gets tough, the tough get going'
'I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price.'

Fabiani knows all about that last one. Ka-ching!

Dave.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

this simple fact will be overlooked (as it has been in earlier threads) timed and again. don't know why. it's been discussed for years that riders insert grain-sized substances into urethra or use catheters.

How are you gonna do that in front of the chaperone? I assume doing it before the race isn't feasible, at least not in cycling.

 

[NashbarShorts]

Pretty simple. You retreat into the team bus or camper for a moment, insert the magic grain, and off you go. These guys are not under house arrest after a stage finish. They have plenty of time to prepare, or "insert", or whatever the preferred method is.

 

[BotanyBay]

How are you gonna do that in front of the chaperone? I assume doing it before the race isn't feasible, at least not in cycling.

Notice that the cameras never follow the riders into the team bus? The bus is the doper's sanctuary.

The riders go there and immediately start doing whatever they need to do to be ready for a possible test. IV saline, catheterized "clean" urine, masking agents, etc. That's where the team doc greets the riders.

Right now, the testers have not done a good enough job of grabbing the riders as soon as they cross the line. That needs to end.

 

[Mondrian]

Hope you don't mind me editting but your item 6 appears to be a compelling basis for the USADA investigation.

They were the old masters of the game - the new master alchemist is in Europe - I thought the classics link was a dead give away!