NFL

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This recent NY Times article about opiate use/addiction among current and former NFL players is one of probably a dozen similar articles you can find.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/02/sports/nfl-opioids-.html

This is what informs my thoughts about PED use in the NFL. Clearly, these guys are willing to gobble handfuls of painkillers to stay out on the field (drugs which are already a performance enhancer); to me it follows they would also take just about ANYTHING else (HGH, deer antler, snake oil) that will help them stay out on the field by performing better than the next guy in the depth chart. That, and add in the fact that they are knowingly/willingly accepting brain damage to stay out there contributes to my perception they will/do take almost anything. And in a corporate organization that doesn't want to deal with problems if it can avoid it, then I don't see any logical explanation that would sway me from the assumption that 99.9% of NFL players use PEDs. And the numbers among NFL prospects in the NCAA ranks have also go to be pretty high.
 
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The Hitch said:
Koronin said:
Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.
Don't get your emphasis on the recreational drugs.

Yeah a lot of them get caught for recreational not PED's.

But that's because the testing is such a joke, cycling looks like a police state in comparison.

Wasn't it the case very recently (maybe has changed) that they got tested twice a year, know the dates in advanced and simply have to make sure they are clean for that day.

Then even if they get caught its a 4 week suspension and no reputational damage with the last 2 non qb superbowl mvps both caught users (JE and VM)

There is no "out of competition" testing period. Any testing is at team facilities
So most steroid use is out of season to bulk up ready for the new year.

They get tested at the start of training camp, then a few "random" players (4 IIRC) after each game.

Seems like kickers and punters get tested a whole lot more than they should.

Also don't annoy the powers that be, as there are allegations that means your name gets pulled after more matches.
 
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SHAD0W93 said:
King Boonen said:
I'm pretty sure I read that, while Edelman wasn't invited to the combine, he ran the 40 faster than anyone who was.

I read that as well. He ran it with a 4.52 time.

I checked, it wasn't the 40, it was the short shuttle he ran faster than anyone at the combine. Seems like the Patriots identified a player from one position (QB) who could make a very good player in a different position (WR). After selecting him it looks like he was slowly brought into that position covering for others, no doubt giving them the chance to coach him well and him the chance to fully learn how to play there. Wikipedia says he was Kent State's leading rusher while playing at QB, I'm not sure how common that is but I'm guessing not very? Calling him a donkey to race-horse conversion seems massively off-base.
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
SHAD0W93 said:
King Boonen said:
I'm pretty sure I read that, while Edelman wasn't invited to the combine, he ran the 40 faster than anyone who was.

I read that as well. He ran it with a 4.52 time.

I checked, it wasn't the 40, it was the short shuttle he ran faster than anyone at the combine. Seems like the Patriots identified a player from one position (QB) who could make a very good player in a different position (WR). After selecting him it looks like he was slowly brought into that position covering for others, no doubt giving them the chance to coach him well and him the chance to fully learn how to play there. Wikipedia says he was Kent State's leading rusher while playing at QB, I'm not sure how common that is but I'm guessing not very? Calling him a donkey to race-horse conversion seems massively off-base.
When trying to compare the combine (which is electronically timed) and pro days, most people would add a couple of tenths of a second to the published pro day times. Pro days are set up to make the kids look good. That said I've no doubt Edelman would perform very well in the shuttle events where it's all about how fast you can change direction. I think he'd be pretty slow in the 40 yd dash. Even now, he's a classic overachiever - not a great athlete but wins by being smart, very good technically, very well coached
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Wikipedia says he was Kent State's leading rusher while playing at QB, I'm not sure how common that is but I'm guessing not very? Calling him a donkey to race-horse conversion seems massively off-base.
It's not that uncommon. College football is very different from the NFL (schemes, average players level, rules) and QBs are often the best athletes on the team.

Edelman is an average athlete in the NFL (WR run the 40 yard dash in 4.48 on average at the combine). He was never rated as a top prospect for either position he's played in his football career. And I'd say not even the Patriots considered him such a valuable asset when they selected him. He played sparcely in his first 4 seasons and then emerged as a reliable receiver when Wes Welker was traded. He's not a top WR in the NFL, he has yet to produce a 10 TD season, he's very injury prone and he rarely surpasses the 70 ypg average.

My take on him is that he was selected by the right team and tremendously benefitted from training with the best coaching staff in the NFL (possibly in all of professional sports) + playing with the best ever QB. He's a doper, but certainly not more than most other NFL players. Doping is not the reason why he's a Super Bowl MVP, context is.
 
Eddleman is also pretty crazy in the hits he goes in for. So are a lot of players to be fair but he does ooze that intensity more than many. Especially since he doesn't really have the size to take into those hits, he knows he will come off worse and he goes straight in.

If the debate is- does Ed juice more than others, maybe not. But that he juices is clear. And he just won the SB mvp in the year he got caught. Lol.
 
Lets not forget Brian Cushing who was twice suspended for PEDs (4 games then 10 games) and has now found a job with the Houston Texans as ....... their Strength and Conditioning coach.

Hopefully they're also getting a "How to pass the tests" coach too.
 
Re: Re:

Catwhoorg said:
The Hitch said:
Koronin said:
Yep. That just adds to the entire Patriots cheat. Also it seems most drug suspension in the NFL are for illegal drugs not for PEDs. Could be wrong, but it certainly feels that way.
Don't get your emphasis on the recreational drugs.

Yeah a lot of them get caught for recreational not PED's.

But that's because the testing is such a joke, cycling looks like a police state in comparison.

Wasn't it the case very recently (maybe has changed) that they got tested twice a year, know the dates in advanced and simply have to make sure they are clean for that day.

Then even if they get caught its a 4 week suspension and no reputational damage with the last 2 non qb superbowl mvps both caught users (JE and VM)

There is no "out of competition" testing period. Any testing is at team facilities
So most steroid use is out of season to bulk up ready for the new year.

They get tested at the start of training camp, then a few "random" players (4 IIRC) after each game.

Seems like kickers and punters get tested a whole lot more than they should.

Also don't annoy the powers that be, as there are allegations that means your name gets pulled after more matches.
That's not correct. There's a lot of offseason testing that is conducted away from the training facilities, e.g., personal residence, at a gym while working out, while vacationing anywhere in the states, etc. Players can be tested up to 6 times per year. Some are even target tested for suspicious circumstances (they better watch the social media stuff. Lol).

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/25627/from-bathrooms-to-grannys-house-nfl-drug-testers-will-find-you

> "The untold secret in NFL locker rooms is the process of getting drug-tested can be weirdly invasive, especially in the offseason, when players can be randomly tested up to six times.

Testers are always lurking, and not just at your front door. They will track you on vacation, and to the ends of the earth.

“They don’t care where you are,” Steelers linebacker Arthur Moats said.

Interviews with several Steelers affirm growing suspicions over the timing of performance-enhancing drug tests -- say, after a good performance or a killer workout documented on social media -- and define what work-life balance really means for NFL players"

Party at grammy's

Don’t mess with Peggy Thomas.

Moats was visiting his grandmother in rural Virginia one offseason when the league informed him of his next-day test at around 6 a.m.

“She was like, ‘Who is this man pulling up to our house?’” Moats said. “He got the look.”

The man in khakis and a polo shirt walked into the home carrying a black box and directed Moats to the bathroom. The test supervisor usually breaks up the urine into "A" and "B" samples, which was a clumsy task in grammy’s house.

“Dealing with piss right on the [living room] table,” Moats said. “It was weird.”

This is normalcy for NFL players, who draw random tests from the league’s computer-generated system.

In season, a player gets a notice hanging from his locker that it's testing day. Out of season, the player gets a call and is expected to respond promptly. Or, as guard Ramon Foster recalls, the dialogue basically starts and stops with: “You’ve got a drug test tomorrow. Where you at?”

The NFL has testers positioned all over the country.

Kicker Chris Boswell found this out when he got a call for a morning test while on vacation in Hawaii.

Turns out Boswell made a new friend.

“He was actually a Hawaiian firefighter who does it as a side job when athletes come on vacation,” Boswell said. “Nice guy.”

A test supervisor, whom Berry said is typically a mild-mannered male, hands the player a cup to do his business. Once business is done, he labels the samples, asks the player to sign something and is on his way.

After that, silence is good.

“You don’t want to hear back,” said wide receiver Martavis Bryant, who served a yearlong suspension for substance-abuse violations."

Linebacker Vince Williams almost expects a call from the league whenever he takes his family on vacation.

“You say, ‘Well, I’m in Orlando. They say, ‘Well, we’re going to contact the Orlando [supervisor] and they’ll come to you.’ It happens like that,” Williams said. “They kill you, too, because let’s say you’re not where you think you’re going to be at, or you’re on a boat fishing and you have a certain amount of hours to take this test, now you’re screwed.” <

And as I mentioned previously, Mark Sanchez was popped last offseason as a "free agent" (he says he's been tested 73 times in his 9 yr career!).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mark-sanchez-suspended-four-games-for-peds-blames-it-on-accidental-exposure/
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
SHAD0W93 said:
King Boonen said:
I'm pretty sure I read that, while Edelman wasn't invited to the combine, he ran the 40 faster than anyone who was.

I read that as well. He ran it with a 4.52 time.

I checked, it wasn't the 40, it was the short shuttle he ran faster than anyone at the combine. Seems like the Patriots identified a player from one position (QB) who could make a very good player in a different position (WR). After selecting him it looks like he was slowly brought into that position covering for others, no doubt giving them the chance to coach him well and him the chance to fully learn how to play there. Wikipedia says he was Kent State's leading rusher while playing at QB, I'm not sure how common that is but I'm guessing not very? Calling him a donkey to race-horse conversion seems massively off-base.


Depends on the type of offense Kent State was running at the time. There are many colleges that run a form of the option offense. In that type of offense the QB is going to get a lot of rushing yards. There are many colleges that run offenses that are not "pro style" offenses so it's not that uncommon for a QB to have the most rushing yards, esp when we're talking about smaller 1-A and lower level schools. (Yes I still use 1-A and 1-AA for the top two levels are now bowl or playoff whatever the heck they are called).
 
Thats true for the top dual-threat QBs playing at the FBS level. These guys are offensive machines putting up incredible yardage in total offense.

Manziel led Texas A&M in rushing back in 2012 (1410). Khalil Tate did it at Arizona (2017/1411). And Lamar Jackson led Louisville in rushing all three years that he was there (2015/960, 2016/1571, 2017/1601). That's 4132 in total rushing yards in just 3 yrs of college play!

There's probably more dual-threats with big rushing yardage in FBS but these guys immediately came to mind after reading your post.