Noval rages at the Hog & says "he's lost control of team" & team situation is "bad" !

Mar 17, 2009
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Yesterday, Tour reject Benjamin Noval not only weighed in with one of his own but also offered the most tantalizing snapshot yet of what’s really going on at Astana.

"This year, the atmosphere in the team is really bad,” Noval told a Spanish radio station on Friday. “It’s bad because of Johan Bruyneel, because he hasn’t known how to manage the team. He’s lost control of the relationship between Alberto and Lance and with the rest of the riders… If there are clans in the team it’s his fault. He knows that, as well, because I’ve said it to his face.”

 
whiteboytrash said:
Yesterday, Tour reject Benjamin Noval not only weighed in with one of his own but also offered the most tantalizing snapshot yet of what’s really going on at Astana.

"This year, the atmosphere in the team is really bad,” Noval told a Spanish radio station on Friday. “It’s bad because of Johan Bruyneel, because he hasn’t known how to manage the team. He’s lost control of the relationship between Alberto and Lance and with the rest of the riders… If there are clans in the team it’s his fault. He knows that, as well, because I’ve said it to his face.”
My spanish isn't good, but this roughly translates into "sour grapes". Noval you weren't selected for a variety of reasons. It's over buddy, let it go.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Kazistuta said:
Noval is simply just advocating for a job after september alongside Contador (and Vino?).... He's got nothing to lose now.

...then he could be right and the Hog has lost control of the team. What a mess.
 
May 13, 2009
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I read the interview. Noval simply said what most people following the Astana drama knew for some time (at least since LA's P-N comment). Not really a surprise, but good to have confirmation from inside the team.
 
A

Anonymous

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The Hog is a genius when his doped up train all ride for the man who really controls him. Once he allowed Armstrong to come back on any terms the uniballer chose, he showed exactly what a spineless jellyfish I always thought he was.

Yea, the "Comeback" is all about cancer.... What a joke that has become and now The Hog is adding to it by twittering about his own riders.

Noval is just telling the truth.
 
Tend to agree with Cobbles. Though your headline was fun, WBT, it's not really news. Though as you say, both Noval and JB will be elsewhere next year, so not much to lose.

My biggest complaint about the praise heaped on JB is that he was basically managing a team that was equivalent to the NY Yankees, Manchester United or LA Lakers. Not saying any idiot could have managed all those wins, but I would say that just about any DS in cycling over the last 15 years probably would have won just as much as JB, had he had JB's riders, support staff, and budgets. It's sort of like Phil Jackson. Does anyone really think he would have won 10 NBA championships if he didn't have Michael Jordon, Kobe Bryant, Scottie Pippin, and Shaq at his disposal for his entire career? Same with JB having Lance, Heras, Contador, Levi, etc.

NFL Football coach Bum Phillips once said about Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula that, "He could beat you with his guys, or he could beat you with your guys". That statement doesn't fit JB to me.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Reminds me of the Giro this year. Armstrong being interviewed praising Bruyneel, saying how he never missed, always predicted exactly what was going to happen in each stage, how the team was always prepared for everything.

During the Giro eurosport showed the pre-race pep talk inside the Astana bus on 3 stages. The whole pep talk from JB to the riders.

Guess in how many of these 3 stages he ended up being anywhere near close to what actually happened?
Hint: less than one.

I especially liked the part where he tells the team before stage 10 that the stage should be hard but calm, and that nothing's really going to happen for the GC, a harmless break was just going to go and win by many minutes.

Right :p
 
May 9, 2009
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Hmm...is Noval the bull in the china shop that the Hog mentioned the other day? (i thought it was vino he was alluding to, but noval's comments seem much worse since they are directed at the director/team).
 
Jun 27, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
My biggest complaint about the praise heaped on JB is that he was basically managing a team that was equivalent to the NY Yankees, Manchester United or LA Lakers. Not saying any idiot could have managed all those wins, but I would say that just about any DS in cycling over the last 15 years probably would have won just as much as JB, had he had JB's riders, support staff, and budgets. It's sort of like Phil Jackson. Does anyone really think he would have won 10 NBA championships if he didn't have Michael Jordon, Kobe Bryant, Scottie Pippin, and Shaq at his disposal for his entire career? Same with JB having Lance, Heras, Contador, Levi, etc.

NFL Football coach Bum Phillips once said about Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula that, "He could beat you with his guys, or he could beat you with your guys". That statement doesn't fit JB to me.
Well I completely agree with you about JB a.k.a The Hog but with all respect I couldn't agree with you about Phil Jackson !? Ask yourself one question: How many championship rings do Jordan, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe have without Phil Jackson ?!
Answer is that only Shaq have one with Miami Heat ( coach Pat Riley )
 
Jun 4, 2009
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issoisso said:
Reminds me of the Giro this year. Armstrong being interviewed praising Bruyneel, saying how he never missed, always predicted exactly what was going to happen in each stage, how the team was always prepared for everything.

During the Giro eurosport showed the pre-race pep talk inside the Astana bus on 3 stages. The whole pep talk from JB to the riders.

Guess in how many of these 3 stages he ended up being anywhere near close to what actually happened?
Hint: less than one.

I especially liked the part where he tells the team before stage 10 that the stage should be hard but calm, and that nothing's really going to happen for the GC, a harmless break was just going to go and win by many minutes.

Right :p
Well he actually got the Di Luca part right. He said the profile is somewhat close to a typical classic and should suit Di Luca, who could attack on the last bump and ride all out to the finish. Which is basically what happened.
 
stephens said:
Hmm...is Noval the bull in the china shop that the Hog mentioned the other day? (i thought it was vino he was alluding to, but noval's comments seem much worse since they are directed at the director/team).
Noval's the harmless, immature, little kid that didn't get his way. About on the same level of the OP.
 
A

Anonymous

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Alpe d'Huez said:
Tend to agree with Cobbles. Though your headline was fun, WBT, it's not really news. Though as you say, both Noval and JB will be elsewhere next year, so not much to lose.

My biggest complaint about the praise heaped on JB is that he was basically managing a team that was equivalent to the NY Yankees, Manchester United or LA Lakers. Not saying any idiot could have managed all those wins, but I would say that just about any DS in cycling over the last 15 years probably would have won just as much as JB, had he had JB's riders, support staff, and budgets. It's sort of like Phil Jackson. Does anyone really think he would have won 10 NBA championships if he didn't have Michael Jordon, Kobe Bryant, Scottie Pippin, and Shaq at his disposal for his entire career? Same with JB having Lance, Heras, Contador, Levi, etc.

NFL Football coach Bum Phillips once said about Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula that, "He could beat you with his guys, or he could beat you with your guys". That statement doesn't fit JB to me.
I would agree with you if I hadn't heard so many inside the sport say he was great at calling the race. I certainly don't believe it just because Lance says it.
 
May 13, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Tend to agree with Cobbles. Though your headline was fun, WBT, it's not really news. Though as you say, both Noval and JB will be elsewhere next year, so not much to lose.

My biggest complaint about the praise heaped on JB is that he was basically managing a team that was equivalent to the NY Yankees, Manchester United or LA Lakers. Not saying any idiot could have managed all those wins, but I would say that just about any DS in cycling over the last 15 years probably would have won just as much as JB, had he had JB's riders, support staff, and budgets. It's sort of like Phil Jackson. Does anyone really think he would have won 10 NBA championships if he didn't have Michael Jordon, Kobe Bryant, Scottie Pippin, and Shaq at his disposal for his entire career? Same with JB having Lance, Heras, Contador, Levi, etc.

NFL Football coach Bum Phillips once said about Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula that, "He could beat you with his guys, or he could beat you with your guys". That statement doesn't fit JB to me.
Couldn't agree more JB is the most overrated DS of professional cycling. Give any guy the best TDF rider (LA), a lot of money (Nike, discovery, USPS) to hire top contenders as domestiques (e.g. heras, landis) get the best doping wizard to "tune up your top guy (Ferrari) and you will win 7 tours.

Funny that not many guys remember Hinault or Indurain's director. Yet those guys "won" the tour 5 times. :rolleyes:
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I would think Bjarne Riis is the best Director out there. If you can win a tour with Sastre (and on the last mountain stage), he must be doing something right. Plus he seems to be able to discover and nurture contenders like Andy Schlek. Even Bobby Jullich rode well under him when he wasn't crashing. Brings out the best in all his riders (yes they were probably doped like the others, but they still rode better under him).

Look at the Hog. What did Heras do under him. Was pretty much a failure other than in one tour.
 
I'm in full agreement Alpe D'Huez. Further proof is how he went into 2006 thinking that he could win with Hincapie. Even I knew that this was a completely unrealistic game plan. The resounding failure of this strategy resulted in JB announcing his retirement from the sport....until the opportunity to manage a team with Alberto Contador as its up and coming star suddenly changed his mind.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Angliru said:
I'm in full agreement Alpe D'Huez. Further proof is how he went into 2006 thinking that he could win with Hincapie. Even I knew that this was a completely unrealistic game plan. The resounding failure of this strategy resulted in JB announcing his retirement from the sport....
If OP didn't break Hincapie would have finished top 10. Easy. Thank-god OP halted the blood doping because a Hincapie top 5 would have ruined cycling for good. Even Lance at the time was waving the Hincapie for the Tour banner.

If memory serves me correctly in 2006 Il Falco was p*ssed off because the HOG was attempting to run with 29 leaders including Popo ?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The problem with Bruyneel is that he, like Armstrong, is a one trick pony. If you posit success in the sport on the number of times you win the Tour then he's up there. However, Guimard won the Tour 7 times (with Van Impe, Hinault & Fignon), the Vuelta twice, the Giro twice, Classics and week long Tours.

It's also important to remember that Contador's DSes for the Vuelta and Giro were Alain Gallopin and Sean Yates not Bruyneel. I think you'll find that anyone who rates Bruyneel is 'on the payroll' e.g. Liggett & Sherwenn :D
 
Mar 16, 2009
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I think you guys are mostly right about the Hog, but I don't think the first TdF can be called anything but a monumental upset and I think you have to give the Hog some credit there. Also, whatever bad you all have to say has to be balanced by the fact that his teams always seem to ride well as a team, perhaps only surpassed by Bjarne's boys. I think that kind of cohesion comes partly from LA, but again, JB deserves some credit there. Over-rated, yes but not by as much as most of you seem to think imo.

Also didn't i just read that Sastre left Saxo b/c he felt that he never got support from the team? I used to think Barnie was the best DS but, just for one example, does anyone really think he planned out the tactics that won the TdF last year? If anyone rode with Sastre, they have a podium not a win. IMO, that was poor tactics by the other teams rather than strong tactics by Saxo. It was a long shot at best...
 
Mar 16, 2009
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Oh and as to Noval, it seems to me that when a guy speaks out like that, often as not they are as much of the cancer as the cancer of which they speak.
 

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