Teams & Riders Offical Wout Van Aert isn't a new Zdenek Stybar

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Iserbyt (and similar riders) do some road racing in spring and summer, and - at best - are able to get results in 1.2 and 2.2 races.
I disagree. If guys like Iserbyt and Toon Aerts would focus a bit more on road cycling, they would be able to get some nice results for a Pro or even WorldTour team. Quinten Hermans is a good example. Even Laurens Sweeck won a 1.1 race with a late solo once, and lots of other riders in that top ten are or were more than decent road cyclists. And look at what young Thibau Nys did a few months ago, albeit the U23 ranks.

But it's true that Van Aert and Van der Poel are from another planet. And like Logic says, the circumstances were 100% in Wout's favour. I'd dare to say that on a faster course with more speed technicalities, he would've had to battle much harder to even get on the podium. It's an adjustment that favours Mathieu more.
 
I disagree. If guys like Iserbyt and Toon Aerts would focus a bit more on road cycling, they would be able to get some nice results for a Pro or even WorldTour team. Quinten Hermans is a good example. Even Laurens Sweeck won a 1.1 race with a late solo once, and lots of other riders in that top ten are or were more than decent road cyclists. And look at what young Thibau Nys did a few months ago, albeit the U23 ranks.

But it's true that Van Aert and Van der Poel are from another planet. And like Logic says, the circumstances were 100% in Wout's favour. I'd dare to say that on a faster course with more speed technicalities, he would've had to battle much harder to even get on the podium. It's an adjustment that favours Mathieu more.
Lars van der Haar was riding on the WorldTour for a couple of seasons but couldn't make any results at all.

But yeaj, it's of course individual. You also have Merlier and Gianni Vermeersch who are very good on the road.
 
Lars van der Haar was riding on the WorldTour for a couple of seasons but couldn't make any results at all.
But yeaj, it's of course individual. You also have Merlier and Gianni Vermeersch who are very good on the road.
Not at all is a bit harsh, but people expected more from Van der Haar back then, that's true. Apparently though he was another rider feeling bad at Giant (later Sunweb and DSM).
I did not really include Merlier and Vermeersch, because they are both better on the road than in CX. Well, certainly the former. But yes, they grew up in cross too.
 
Not at all is a bit harsh, but people expected more from Van der Haar back then, that's true. Apparently though he was another rider feeling bad at Giant (later Sunweb and DSM).
I did not really include Merlier and Vermeersch, because they are both better on the road than in CX. Well, certainly the former. But yes, they grew up in cross too.
Not that harsh. Okay, he got one second place on a stage in the Tour de Luxembourg but that was it.
 
What a weird thing to say.
Weird, but true.

Wout van Aert is a:

- Top 2 Cyclocrosser

- Top 5 Cobbled classics rider

- Top 5 Hilly classics rider

- Top 5 Time Trialist

- Top 5/10 Puncheur

- Top 10 Bunch sprinter

- Top 10 one week stage racer

- Top 30 climber

The only microdiscipline in which he's the undisputed number one, is slow, non-interval muddy crosses.
 
Weird, but true.

Wout van Aert is a:

- Top 2 Cyclocrosser

- Top 5 Cobbled classics rider

- Top 5 Hilly classics rider

- Top 5 Time Trialist

- Top 5/10 Puncheur

- Top 10 Bunch sprinter

- Top 10 one week stage racer

- Top 30 climber

The only microdiscipline in which he's the undisputed number one, is slow, non-interval muddy crosses.
Okay, but it seems very stupid to belittle him because of that, especially when he combines different abilities to arguably the most impressive overall skillset in the world. And yes, that was what you did, whether or not it was true or not.
 
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Weird, but true.

Wout van Aert is a:

- Top 2 Cyclocrosser

- Top 5 Cobbled classics rider

- Top 5 Hilly classics rider

- Top 5 Time Trialist

- Top 5/10 Puncheur

- Top 10 Bunch sprinter

- Top 10 one week stage racer

- Top 30 climber

The only microdiscipline in which he's the undisputed number one, is slow, non-interval muddy crosses.
Its still a little strange to word things this way, because often times there isn’t one single person who is number one in a category and then always wins at that category. Maybe the one exception is MVP In cyclocross. Last year he was amazing.

But the number one sprinter on a given year still loses. Is he no longer number one?

Wout has wins in every category you just put him in so how much weight does your ranking really have?
 
I think Wout may be able to give MvdP a run for his money this year. What I love about Wout is he's open with his training on Strava. If you follow him there, since he came back from his major injury 2 or 3 years ago, you will notice that he even runs some during his road season...obviously not when he's doing a 3 week grand tour. So he came into this CX season with all the basic fitness requirements already in place.

I'm not sure MvdP takes his training as seriously as Wout. MvdP has always been able to rely on his natural gifts and this will catch up with him as he ages.
 
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I think Wout may be able to give MvdP a run for his money this year. What I love about Wout is he's open with his training on Strava. If you follow him there, since he came back from his major injury 2 or 3 years ago, you will notice that he even runs some during his road season...obviously not when he's doing a 3 week grand tour. So he came into this CX season with all the basic fitness requirements already in place.

I'm not sure MvdP takes his training as seriously as Wout. MvdP has always been able to rely on his natural gifts and this will catch up with him as he ages.
I wouldn't underestimate van der Poel in that regard.
 
I think Wout may be able to give MvdP a run for his money this year. What I love about Wout is he's open with his training on Strava. If you follow him there, since he came back from his major injury 2 or 3 years ago, you will notice that he even runs some during his road season...obviously not when he's doing a 3 week grand tour.
I think you're too liberal with the word "obviously". Apparently, his good mate Roglic goes for a 20 minute jog every morning during a Grand Tour!

And no, that's not a joke.
 
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I'm not sure MvdP takes his training as seriously as Wout. MvdP has always been able to rely on his natural gifts and this will catch up with him as he ages.
That's also my personal impression that van Aert seems to be more "professional" in his training, I mean if I had to point who sticks to his training plan more strictly (with all additional gym sessions etc) I'd surely say it's Wout, not Mathieu. This might be the thing of their characters, but also as you said, Mathieu is likely a little bit more gifted (not that van Aert isn't an extremely gifted athlete) and sometimes he can make up for the lack of training discipline etc. I'm definitely not saying MvdP isn't working working hard but maybe in a less structered and methodical way.

But again, these are just my personal feelings and if we'd want to learn about the work ethics of these two, we'd have to listen some actual opinions of people from their surroundings.
 
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I wouldn't underestimate van der Poel in that regard.
I think I kind've get what limak is trying to say here, but confusing MVDP's less patient, less "traditional"approach to road bike racing with a lack of "professionalism"
That's also my personal impression that van Aert seems to be more "professional" in his training, I mean if I had to point who sticks to his training plan more strictly (with all additional gym sessions etc) I'd surely say it's Wout, not Mathieu. This might be the thing of their characters, but also as you said, Mathieu is likely a little bit more gifted (not that van Aert isn't an extremely gifted athlete) and sometimes he can make up for the lack of training discipline etc. I'm definitely not saying MvdP isn't working working hard but maybe in a less structered and methodical way.

But again, these are just my personal feelings and if we'd want to learn about the work ethics of these two, we'd have to listen some actual opinions of people from their surroundings.
No offense Limak, I think I get what you are coming from here, but I don't think you could be more off the way you actually state it. You seem to be confusing MVDP's less traditional, more "maverick" approach to road bike racing with a relative lack of commitment or dedication. You're talking about maybe the most intense, winningest athlete on the planet who fairly regularly pulls off stuff that leaves folks shaking their heads - including himself. You don't get to be the very best in the world by lacking training discipline. On the contrary, in MVDP you have a guy who has developed superior bike handling skills (very little natural talent involved in that) and who puts himself in positions where he is going to very edge of his limits. Just he sheer amount of work and dedication that it takes to take on 3 disciplines at the highest level says enough. Also, I wouldn't necessarily say that WVA is less gifted than MVDP. He's every bit as much a physical, genetic freak IMO.
 
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MVP certainly doesn't lack training hours.
I remember his 'bad' results after the Corona break were due to over training which in itself says he's at least putting in the hours.

I do think that, until before the Corona break, he did things his way. His impressive results on the road, MTB and CX last 2 year, do imply a slightly better preparation then a younger MVP wouldn't have had. Wisdom comes with age I supose.
 
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I think Wout may be able to give MvdP a run for his money this year. What I love about Wout is he's open with his training on Strava. If you follow him there, since he came back from his major injury 2 or 3 years ago, you will notice that he even runs some during his road season...obviously not when he's doing a 3 week grand tour. So he came into this CX season with all the basic fitness requirements already in place.

I'm not sure MvdP takes his training as seriously as Wout. MvdP has always been able to rely on his natural gifts and this will catch up with him as he ages.
I'm always skeptical of "natural gifts" -- sure, you need a certain physiology and within that range, obviously some are better than others. But no way is MvdP not training as hard as anyone. It's when you combine talent with commitment that you get the extraordinary.
 
I think I kind've get what limak is trying to say here, but confusing MVDP's less patient, less "traditional"approach to road bike racing with a lack of "professionalism"

No offense Limak, I think I get what you are coming from here, but I don't think you could be more off the way you actually state it. You seem to be confusing MVDP's less traditional, more "maverick" approach to road bike racing with a relative lack of commitment or dedication. You're talking about maybe the most intense, winningest athlete on the planet who fairly regularly pulls off stuff that leaves folks shaking their heads - including himself. You don't get to be the very best in the world by lacking training discipline. On the contrary, in MVDP you have a guy who has developed superior bike handling skills (very little natural talent involved in that) and who puts himself in positions where he is going to very edge of his limits. Just he sheer amount of work and dedication that it takes to take on 3 disciplines at the highest level says enough. Also, I wouldn't necessarily say that WVA is less gifted than MVDP. He's every bit as much a physical, genetic freak IMO.
I think you misunderstood what I actually wanted to say or/and I've probably haven't made it clear enough.

At no point I stated that MvdP lacks commitment or dedication. I just think that Mathieu is a guy who really likes to do everything his way, that he's someone who's less likely to stick to very strict schedules and plans - just as you said he's surely something of a maverick. And by saying "less professional" I meant no more than those, definitely not that he's lacking training discipline but that his training discipline is maybe less conventional and structured than Wout's. His own father has shared a similair opinion about him many times in different interviews etc. Also I said it in the context of a long term impact of such an approach (like mixing 3 disciplines) and that at some point he'll have to plan everything more carefully and go more conventional - this is being discussed in his thread all the time and it's reasonable to say that.

In terms of bike handling skills imo a natural talent plays a huge role. Generally, improving your fitness is way easier than improving your technical skills - you can do it to some extent, but to be such an incredible bike handler like Mathieu - you need to be born with this.

And okay, maybe Wout isn't physically less gifted, that'd be odd to say looking at his results from last season. But I think that you'd agree MvdP has this one element more, something that makes his wins (including CX and MTB ones) so special.
 
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I think you misunderstood what I actually wanted to say or/and I've probably haven't made it clear enough.

At no point I stated that MvdP lacks commitment or dedication. I just think that Mathieu is a guy who really likes to do everything his way, that he's someone who's less likely to stick to very strict schedules and plans - just as you said he's surely something of a maverick. And by saying "less professional" I meant no more than those, definitely not that he's lacking training discipline but that his training discipline is maybe less conventional and structured than Wout's. His own father has shared a similair opinion about him many times in different interviews etc. Also I said it in the context of a long term impact of such an approach (like mixing 3 disciplines) and that at some point he'll have to plan everything more carefully and go more conventional - this is being discussed in his thread all the time and it's reasonable to say that.

In terms of bike handling skills imo a natural talent plays a huge role. Generally, improving your fitness is way easier than improving your technical skills - you can do it to some extent, but to be such an incredible bike handler like Mathieu - you need to be born with this.

And okay, maybe Wout isn't physically less gifted, that'd be odd to say looking at his results from last season. But I think that you'd agree MvdP has this one element more, something that makes his wins (including CX and MTB ones) so special.
I'm "picking up what you are laying down", here Limak, and agree. I think to be a truly phenomenal bike handler (relative to other pro cyclists) you have to kind've have the "daredevil" gene along with a desire to take on risk. MVDP certainly has those things and that is what makes him so exciting to watch race bikes - he is always willing to go for broke to win. I'm and MVDP fan, so I agree that there is something that separates him from even someone like WVA - but it might be related to mindset vs. physical talent.
 
I think you misunderstood what I actually wanted to say or/and I've probably haven't made it clear enough.

At no point I stated that MvdP lacks commitment or dedication. I just think that Mathieu is a guy who really likes to do everything his way, that he's someone who's less likely to stick to very strict schedules and plans - just as you said he's surely something of a maverick. And by saying "less professional" I meant no more than those, definitely not that he's lacking training discipline but that his training discipline is maybe less conventional and structured than Wout's. His own father has shared a similair opinion about him many times in different interviews etc. Also I said it in the context of a long term impact of such an approach (like mixing 3 disciplines) and that at some point he'll have to plan everything more carefully and go more conventional - this is being discussed in his thread all the time and it's reasonable to say that.

In terms of bike handling skills imo a natural talent plays a huge role. Generally, improving your fitness is way easier than improving your technical skills - you can do it to some extent, but to be such an incredible bike handler like Mathieu - you need to be born with this.

And okay, maybe Wout isn't physically less gifted, that'd be odd to say looking at his results from last season. But I think that you'd agree MvdP has this one element more, something that makes his wins (including CX and MTB ones) so special.
I don't follow cyclocross or MTB, but, based on road, I do not agree with that. Both have had performances that seem unprecedented. As unbelievable as some of MvdP's performances are, if you watched the Tour this year, it's hard to agree with your statement.
 
On Sunday‘s World Cup, Wout seems to have to ride in the snow.

Imagine he wins in the heat on Mont Ventoux and in December‘s snow in Italy, all within one single year. :)

I don‘t know if he‘s super good on snow, but Wout (just like Mathieu and Pidcock) can do everything on a bike: so I wouldn‘t be too surprised if he wins on Sunday.
 
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WVA is a clear third in terms of handle to MVDP and Piddy. Doesn't have either's off-road handling skills. Even Piddy isn't close to MVDP in terms of his knack for carrying speed in and out of technical corners. Also, let's see a bit more from Piddy before putting him in the MVDP/WVA class period.
 
I think technically, Iserbyt is superior to Van Aert, who is a very good bikehandler, but it's not something he excels at. I think also Vantourenhout is better in that department. Meeusen is probably the most gifted, other than Van der Poel. It does seem mini Nys might be able to raise the bar in the future.

Anyway, last week there was a huge difference, but a snow cross can be tricky. You can lose because you keep making errors, but you can also lose due to bad tire pressure or tire type. But Wout knows how to ride in the snow.
 
Anyway, last week there was a huge difference, but a snow cross can be tricky. You can lose because you keep making errors, but you can also lose due to bad tire pressure or tire type. But Wout knows how to ride in the snow.
I'd say Wout is also one of the best at equipment choices like tires. He also helped design his new Cervelo CX bike. It's his attention to detail that sometimes helps him get the better of MvdP.
 

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