Old Lance for TDU?

[HelmutRoole]

I don't think Lance doped for this year's Tour de France. I mean, when you go for a stage win against a less-than-stellar break in a race you've won seven times with, what, more than a dozen stages to your credit and you get dropped like a sack of dirt, I think that says you didn't bring the kitchen sink or even the silverware.

This surprised me. I thought he'd go out on top or at least put up a fight. But, in hindsight, I think this FDA investigation caused him to crap his pants: you know, paranoid like meth head.

I'll be surprised if he doesn't rectify his TdF performance and come to the TDU loaded for bear.

Anyone else?

 

[Hugh Januss]

It would suck for him then, as it is not the sort of race he could win, no matter how he "prepared".

 

[The Hitch]

Lances best performances came after rest days

First day of Tour- Prologue - His best performance, up there amongst the tt specialists, beating Contador even.

stage 8 Day before break- cracks HEAVY on Morzine Avorias

stage 9 Day after break- in amongst the favourites on the Madeline coming in with Basso and VDB.

stage 16 day before break, goes into long break and fails to do much really, coming 6th.

stage 17 day after break, Does quite well on the col du tourmalet, considering he had spent himself on the stage into pau and wanst fighting for anything.

If Lance wanted to win a stage, he should have gone into a break on the Tourmalet stage. Or at least gone on the col du solour. He would have been let go and should have been able to hold his own on the Tourmalet.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't think Lance doped for this year's Tour de France. I mean, when you go for a stage win against a less-than-stellar break in a race you've won seven times with, what, more than a dozen stages to your credit and you get dropped like a sack of dirt, I think that says you didn't bring the kitchen sink or even the silverware.

This surprised me. I thought he'd go out on top or at least put up a fight. But, in hindsight, I think this FDA investigation caused him to crap his pants: you know, paranoid like meth head.

It was not just Armstrong. Aside from Horner, the entire team suffered a 2006-like collapse in ability during the TdF. Leipheimer essentially stopped racing in Europe to concentrate on beating up U.S. domestic pros and Cat 1 riders. Kloden spent the year as the invisible man.

I think Armstrong prepared during training. His pre-Tour performances were suspicious. His Flanders result came out of nowhere. His weight was all over the place; he looked like a guy who was bulking up with anabolics before going through a severe cutting cycle. He spent a bunch of the pre-Tour season with what looked like HGH gut, which is actually caused by insulin use. At the Tour, Armstrong's performance went straight into the crapper by the end of the first week.

I believe he did training with a "full on" doping program, intending to come strapped to the Tour, then he and Bruyneel decided that it was not worth the risk to transport blood to the Tour. They were probably worried that the team could be under surveillance. If a courier were intercepted with blood then there would be no defense possible.

I have no idea what explains Horner's results. Maybe he went rogue.

 

[kurtinsc]

It was not just Armstrong. Aside from Horner, the entire team suffered a 2006-like collapse in ability during the TdF. Leipheimer essentially stopped racing in Europe to concentrate on beating up U.S. domestic pros and Cat 1 riders. Kloden spent the year as the invisible man.

I think Armstrong prepared during training. His pre-Tour performances were suspicious. His Flanders result came out of nowhere. His weight was all over the place; he looked like a guy who was bulking up with anabolics before going through a severe cutting cycle. He spent a bunch of the pre-Tour season with what looked like HGH gut, which is actually caused by insulin use. At the Tour, Armstrong's performance went straight into the crapper by the end of the first week.

I believe he did training with a "full on" doping program, intending to come strapped to the Tour, then he and Bruyneel decided that it was not worth the risk to transport blood to the Tour. They were probably worried that the team could be under surveillance. If a courier were intercepted with blood then there would be no defense possible.

I have no idea what explains Horner's results. Maybe he went rogue.

I assume you're just talking about the old guys.

Some of the younger guys did pretty well. Brajkovic won the Dauphine Libere, Machado had some nice results, Rossler had some good races and Ben Hermans looked solid at times.

I think Leipheimer and Kloden may just have hit their ages where even with "help", they can't quite hang anymore. Even in shorter races, Levi seemed to start strong then fade quickly.

With Lance, I believe he started the Tour with the intention to dope, and he might have refueled his first rest day. But after failing on the cobbled stage with a flat, losing big time on Morzine, then even after gassing up again losing nearly 3 minutes to Schleck, Contador and Sanchez... he ditched whatever plan he had.

I can believe that Lance without dope at the tour was on par with Morabito, Sivtsov, and Barredo... those he finished near on Tourmalet.

 

[BroDeal]

Some of the younger guys did pretty well. Brajkovic won the Dauphine Libere, Machado had some nice results, Rossler had some good races and Ben Hermans looked solid at times.

I think Leipheimer and Kloden may just have hit their ages where even with "help", they can't quite hang anymore. Even in shorter races, Levi seemed to start strong then fade quickly.

With Lance, I believe he started the Tour with the intention to dope, and he might have refueled his first rest day. But after failing on the cobbled stage with a flat, losing big time on Morzine, then even after gassing up again losing nearly 3 minutes to Schleck, Contador and Sanchez... he ditched whatever plan he had.

I can believe that Lance without dope at the tour was on par with Morabito, Sivtsov, and Barredo... those he finished near on Tourmalet.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the three big names that were supposed to make RS the strongest GT team in the sport all sucked this year. They did not all get old overnight at the same time. It looks to me like they decided to collect their paychecks and not risk getting caught on the eve of retirement.

All of RS's wins came from the team's second tier of riders, and the first tier barely raced in Europe.

 

[Galmozzi]

BroDeal wrote:
"I have no idea what explains Horner's results. Maybe he went rogue. "

With none of them doping, Horner may just be the most talented athlete on that team.

 

[nevada]

Australia is an Island - not quite as easy to get his junk in.

 

[BotanyBay]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the three big names that were supposed to make RS the strongest GT team in the sport all sucked this year. They did not all get old overnight at the same time. It looks to me like they decided to collect their paychecks and not risk getting caught on the eve of retirement.

All of RS's wins came from the team's second tier of riders, and the first tier barely raced in Europe.

RS knew that all eyes were upon them. No one was risking anything. Fuyu Li musta taken some leftovers from the season before.

 

[kurtinsc]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the three big names that were supposed to make RS the strongest GT team in the sport all sucked this year. They did not all get old overnight at the same time. It looks to me like they decided to collect their paychecks and not risk getting caught on the eve of retirement.

All of RS's wins came from the team's second tier of riders, and the first tier barely raced in Europe.

I'm not sure about Kloden... I think you may be right about him not risking a positive and his decline being about being off a program rather then simply getting old.

Levi... I think he was still doping. But it just wasn't enough anymore. Levi had strong beginnings to several stage races last year only to fade later in 1-week races. Even in the Tour he started in typical Levi fashion... good TT, and hanging in with the second or third climbing groups. That's the same as his normal doped years. He was hanging with Gesink in the GC until Tourmalet... it just seemed like his body couldn't handle the distance involved.

Lance... well I don't mean to be contrary, but his season leading up to the tour wasn't much different from the years he won the TDF. He rarely EVER did anything in the spring (maybe a decent result at Amstel Gold), then he'd come in with a strong performance in June and then dominate the Tour.

This year, he did little in the spring aside from a decent result at the RVV, he finished 2nd in the Tour de Suisse and opened the Tour with an incredible prologue. He was coming into the tour with the program that won him 7 of them. In my mind, the only thing that caused him to abandon the program was the failures on the cobbled stage and Morzine... without those he would have gone whole hog (and maybe gotten Kloden to juice up in the second half of the race to provide assistance). His TDS result was the 3rd best result for the team last year (behind Brajkovic and Horner's wins)... he didn't seem to be backing of his regular dope program at all coming in.

 

[kurtinsc]

BroDeal wrote:
"I have no idea what explains Horner's results. Maybe he went rogue. "

With none of them doping, Horner may just be the most talented athlete on that team.

Come on... there was still doping. It might have been less, but I have trouble imagining a Bruyneel team dope free.

It might be that taking Horner and ADDING a little dope > Armstrong/Leipheimer/Kloden while subtracting a little dope.

 

[roundabout]

On topic, Armstrong will turn up, collect the money, get the most airtime and finsih midpack. No point in bothering with winning TDU of all races just because it's his last(?)

 

[Race Radio]

BroDeal wrote:
"I have no idea what explains Horner's results. Maybe he went rogue. "

With none of them doping, Horner may just be the most talented athlete on that team.

Chris is not a saint but he may be the most talented US rider in the last 10 years.

 

[Galmozzi]

Come on... there was still doping. It might have been less, but I have trouble imagining a Bruyneel team dope free.

It might be that taking Horner and ADDING a little dope > Armstrong/Leipheimer/Kloden while subtracting a little dope.

Doped or undoped, Horner is likely the most talented on an even playing field. As a team their lousy results when contrasted to their prior doped years, suggest the doping was minimal at best.

 

[Old School]

Hmm, yes, that was a big drop off from the year prior...for Kloden and Pharmstrong. Dope up for the TDU, I don't see why not. McEwen will need a super domestic, and Lance is just the man to go out like that...somebody's slave.

 

[Polish]

Doped or undoped, Horner is likely the most talented on an even playing field. As a team their lousy results when contrasted to their prior doped years, suggest the doping was minimal at best.

Lousy team results?

They won the Team Classification in 2010.
Chris, Levi, Klodi, and Lance all finished top25.
All ahead of Wiggins and Cadel

During the doped years they won the Team Prize only once I think....

 

[Hugh Januss]

Lousy team results?

They won the Team Classification in 2010.
Chris, Levi, Klodi, and Lance all finished top25.
All ahead of Wiggins and Cadel

During the doped years they won the Team Prize only once I think....

Oh jesus, how could we have all forgotten about their super impressive and hard fought victory in the highly sought after Team CG.

 

[Ferminal]

Lance will get dropped on Monte Willunga.

 

[ricara]

Oh jesus, how could we have all forgotten about their super impressive and hard fought victory in the highly sought after Team CG.

Don't forget that four of them also beat a guy who rode for two weeks with a broken arm. Those are some impressive palmares!

 

[Siriuscat]

Lousy team results?

They won the Team Classification in 2010.
Chris, Levi, Klodi, and Lance all finished top25.
All ahead of Wiggins and Cadel

During the doped years they won the Team Prize only once I think....

....and ultimately it was the only prize that really mattered, Liestrong wasn't really interested in yellow just going for the "awareness" and the BIG TEAM PRIZE......you've been reading too much of your own garbage mate!

 

[Kennf1]

Oh jesus, how could we have all forgotten about their super impressive and hard fought victory in the highly sought after Team CG.

They also won the coveted DS-sanction award with the jersey stunt.

 

[Galmozzi]

Lousy team results?

They won the Team Classification in 2010.
Chris, Levi, Klodi, and Lance all finished top25.
All ahead of Wiggins and Cadel

During the doped years they won the Team Prize only once I think....

Ha Ha, good one. Team GC, yeah!!!! The fact they had to settle for that as their big "victory" furthers my point.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

One team was being cautious during this years Tour.

Page 23 of WADA Independent Observers Report.

It was clear to the IO Team that it was well known to the teams that the arrival of the UCI Team could be observed by checking the hotel car park. On two occasions, the IO Team could clearly see two persons watching the parking from their room windows half hidden behind the curtain as well as a team member seated in front of the hotel who immediately used his mobile phone when he saw the UCI Team.