"outlaw" races? How to burn down the USAC/UCI...

[AnythingButKestrel]

What's the history/success of non sanctioned races in cycling? Is there enough. Disgust within cycling with doping and corruption for race organizers and teams to simply go "off the reservation" and run unsanctioned races? It's pretty common in motorsports.

It could be one way to burn down the barns and start fresh.

Thoughts?

 

[MR_Sarcastic]

There are other sanctioning bodies in the United States besides USAC. The top 1-2's don't do them because of lesser payouts. When they do do them, it's mostly for training. It's the lower catagories that flock towards them, mostly because instead of a bloated $40 entry fee, they pay, on the average $25.
USAC will continue sanctioning 85-90% of the races in the USA because in most areas, that's all there is.

The rank and file care little of the so called "doping and corruption". They just want to race...(as cheaply as possible)

 

[joe1265]

So, the USAC is responsible for riders doping?

 

[MacRoadie]

You mean something like this?

CBR BAR Series Crit #2

Versus this?

Roger Millikan Valentines Day Crit

Check out the respective masters races. A CBR Sunday is always a good day for Thurlow.

The downside is USAC's newfound reluctance to award ANY upgrade points for ANY non-USAC races, even though the fields on both weekends will be comprised of the EXACT (and I mean EXACT) same racers. Oh yeah, and with CBR you have to deal with Chris Lotts and his ego.

 

[Master50]

I assume you believe that doping is caused by sport governing bodies and that if you started an alternate sport body all the riders could then be clean?
So why would a rider quit doping in your system unless there was no money to win or support the doping?
Maybe we could get football to join in too. They are pretty corrupt too. Then there is the IOC. Nobody gets to play in their games without being a member.
Ever try to get government money for non Olympic sports?
Know any downhill racers? What about CX riders.
What pro level riders are going to join without the money and the glory?
Perhaps the sport is shaped and twisted in this shape as a result of the many pressures placed upon it.

 

[brianf7]

There are over 1000 unsanctioned races every week run by other cycling bodies that are not and never will be affiliated to UCI.

In Australia alone we have at least 200 races and none are alowed to have drug testing.

No one can test you if you dont "agree" to it just tell them to go walk off the end of the jetty.

If you want to ride UCI races you must agree or you dont get a licence.

 

[DirtyWorks]

There are over 1000 unsanctioned races every week run by other cycling bodies that are not and never will be affiliated to UCI.....

The same thing happens in the U.S. The problem is the promoters are like herding cats. They did the math and going with a federation doesn't make them richer.

In the U.S. the most popular cycling States are not USAC/UCI affiliated at all. (Oregon and Colorado) California is moving steadily away from USAC.

To really scale up an independent event, it needs a broadcast feed.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I assume you believe that doping is caused by sport governing bodies

You should check the principals in Tailwind Sports. The same jokers running USAC doped Armstrong as a Junior.

and that if you started an alternate sport body all the riders could then be clean?

Yes, if the federation didn't promote the doping. (See Weisel, Armstrong, Verbruggen, etc)

So why would a rider quit doping in your system unless there was no money to win or support the doping?

Because they wouldn't be paid to dope.

Know any downhill racers? What about CX riders.
What pro level riders are going to join without the money and the glory?

Lots. I was around in the early days of mountain biking. It was bike shop employees 5 days a week, pros one or two days a week with *huge* weekend warrior fields. The racing was good. The cycling fashion wasn't, too much day-glo.

 

[brianf7]

The same thing happens in the U.S. The problem is the promoters are like herding cats. They did the math and going with a federation doesn't make them richer.

In the U.S. the most popular cycling States are not USAC/UCI affiliated at all. (Oregon and Colorado) California is moving steadily away from USAC.

To really scale up an independent event, it needs a broadcast feed.

Try this link to UCI oppersition.

http://belgiancyclingselection.be/icf.html

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I got the impression that the OP was referencing corruption, not doping, for the most part, though he mentioned both.

To really scale up an independent event, it needs a broadcast feed.

Actually, races could be webcast, even in HD. If the stream had a high enough bandwidth, and the portal site were updated and savvy enough, it would work. You're going to need decent up front capital for gear, coordination, travel and to keep consistent staff, but it's doable.

We all have watched plenty of European races online. And here in the states MLS for example has had pretty decent success webcasting soccer matches that aren't broadcast on FSC and other broadcast channels. The USFL (remember them) has some capital and is trying to come back in maybe 2012, and plan on webcasting their games exclusively, hopefully in HD quality. Five years from now this will be the norm in many sports.

The problem racing has is it's image is tarnished. Talk to casual riders in the US. Those that were excited when Lance was winning Tours a decade ago now view the sport with skepticism and aren't likely to watch races like the Nevada City Classic or Mt. Hood Challenge online, even if free. You're not likely to get enough true hard core racing fans to offset the cost of production and turn any sort of profit. Webcasting or otherwise.

 

[PotentialPro]

If it wasnt about insurance and un-sophisticated riders where I am, I would promote races outside of USAC and the local idiots. What do you really need them for when you get down to it? So they can sabotage my race with little promotion, and publishing the race schedule 3 weeks before it starts in 2011? I love grass roots racing, and quality small events that people can enjoy. Apathetic racers really kill that great feeling of putting on a nice event.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, insurance is an issue. As is prize money.

 

[fatandfast]

If it wasnt about insurance and un-sophisticated riders where I am, I would promote races outside of USAC and the local idiots. What do you really need them for when you get down to it? So they can sabotage my race with little promotion, and publishing the race schedule 3 weeks before it starts in 2011? I love grass roots racing, and quality small events that people can enjoy. Apathetic racers really kill that great feeling of putting on a nice event.

I have done non-sanctioned races all over the valley. Some out near the Mayo Clinic as you go toward Fountain Hills on Shea Blvd. I have also done races in Mexico like the Tour of Mexicali Valley all are excellent. There are a couple of races here in NYC that are non-sanctioned and have good turn outs and good racers. I was a little skeptical but the the city grants permits and has insurance providers that do"event" insurance. You have to get a pottapoddie or 2 and an emt but the things go off without much trouble. I think the net and a few flyers at every bike and coffee shop really help. The lack of a license is very attractive to people that ride but don't want to hassle w a federation and all the BS that goes w it

 

[Darryl Webster]

Over here the Leaugue Of Veteran Racing Cyclists is very well supported.
Ok its not major leaugue and is for those over 40 but it shows that viable anternatives can work for those who dont wish to suport the corruption but want to enjoy there racing.
http://lvrc.org/

 

[DirtyWorks]

Actually, races could be webcast, even in HD. If the stream had a high enough bandwidth, and the portal site were updated and savvy enough, it would work. You're going to need decent up front capital for gear, coordination, travel and to keep consistent staff, but it's doable.

We agree on the broad strokes of getting a video feed online, but the core issues is the technology to get a video feed from a moving breakaway, peloton, and at least one other camera is expensive. The alternative, send out a bunch of handhelds, then reproduce the content as-live an hour or so after the race has finished is a cost effective alternative. It's not going to look like an ASO feed.

I think Nevada City is a great event to start at. I think there are enough fans that would watch online. If it was half-way successful, USAC/UCI would do something to discourage the event from working. Look at the ridiculousness around the new NRC rules and the cyclocross shenannigans late last year. Both are efforts to build a media product and discourage grassroots participation.

 

[runninboy]

You mean something like this?

CBR BAR Series Crit #2

Versus this?

Roger Millikan Valentines Day Crit

Check out the respective masters races. A CBR Sunday is always a good day for Thurlow.

The downside is USAC's newfound reluctance to award ANY upgrade points for ANY non-USAC races, even though the fields on both weekends will be comprised of the EXACT (and I mean EXACT) same racers. Oh yeah, and with CBR you have to deal with Chris Lotts and his ego.

Heh heh, everday is a good day for Thurlow, I remember in the mid 80's on the Simi ride He was talking to Knickman and they reckoned there were close to 150 to 200 riders at the rest stop one of them put forth that we could each chip in a dollar and the winner of the ride would take the pot.
I seem to remember Roy trying to convince people that the experience alone would be worth them losing the dollar.
It didnt work. Realistically that day there were maybe 5 guys who could have won the pot, Thurlow, Roy, Tomac or a couple of visiting Pros
fun idea though
Yeah i don't race CBR just because of Lotts. I got sick of him telling everyone how the races should go. One day at Long Beach he was frothing at the mouth(not unusual) and then he got on the PA and said if we didn't start racing more aggressively he would stop the race and not payout...
what a friggin tool

 

[runninboy]

We agree on the broad strokes of getting a video feed online, but the core issues is the technology to get a video feed from a moving breakaway, peloton, and at least one other camera is expensive. The alternative, send out a bunch of handhelds, then reproduce the content as-live an hour or so after the race has finished is a cost effective alternative. It's not going to look like an ASO feed.

I think Nevada City is a great event to start at. I think there are enough fans that would watch online. If it was half-way successful, USAC/UCI would do something to discourage the event from working. Look at the ridiculousness around the new NRC rules and the cyclocross shenannigans late last year. Both are efforts to build a media product and discourage grassroots participation.

Years ago i was racing with a guy on the track who mounted a small still camera under his seat and was snapping photos during the race. He had to get approval before the race but it ended up not to work too well because he couldn't frame the shot at all, In retrospect of course it would not work.
Anyway it would be interesting if one rider from every team would be a camerman .mount small video camera front & rear and shoot the action.
Then edit it and send it out as tape delay. much much much cheaper than live. and who would care if Nevada City was shown the next weekend?
Yeah we would know the result but the general public wouldnt. And we would still enjoy the watching the way the race unfolded.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

The reason I asked was because where I live, racing is 99% USAC/UCI. There are no other options. I thought that it would be fun to try cyclocross or race a few sandlot crits, but I just can't stomach sending money to the USAC/UCI plus dealing with all the garbage that goes with it.

 

[MacRoadie]

Yeah i don't race CBR just because of Lotts. I got sick of him telling everyone how the races should go. One day at Long Beach he was frothing at the mouth(not unusual) and then he got on the PA and said if we didn't start racing more aggressively he would stop the race and not payout...
what a friggin tool

He blogged a big apology a couple of weeks ago. We shall see.

He still has a big hardon for Cruz and Hegg though. Tony is getting the love over the failed (?) bike biz and Steve is hearing about it for being a bit too argy-bargy in a 40+ sprint.

Go figure.

 

[mtb Dad]

What's the history/success of non sanctioned races in cycling? Is there enough. Disgust within cycling with doping and corruption for race organizers and teams to simply go "off the reservation" and run unsanctioned races? It's pretty common in motorsports.

It could be one way to burn down the barns and start fresh.

Thoughts?

Much as I would like to 'burn down the UCI', not sure how that would help in the anti-doping battle. It's unlikely the national antidoping agency would touch those non-UCI affiliated races, so, it's, in effect, encouraging doping.

I know cycling bureaucracy seems inpenetrable, but I think the answer is simpler: find out who the reps are, and have a word at a race. Write a letter if that's your thing, but face to face is good.

Just go up to them and say your concerns, like you would like to be told if you were the rep.

Chances are, all they get are complaints, but if you make your comments something like:

"I was hoping to speak to you about the USAC position on the UCI and doping. Are you willing to speak up to USAC and ask for reform? I think the UCI needs to be more open, and accept an audit of whether doping results have been manipulated. And that USAC has to make it's opinion known to the UCI delegates, and insist they be available to contact."

...you might get a reaction. Or not. (I just got a party line answer back from mine). But contacts like that add up anyway, even if they reject your request. If they make promising noises, offer to volunteer on their next election effort (might be phoning around, if that).

 

[joe1265]

I think giving your feedback to the USAC rep is a great idea. They're easy to reach, their contact info is here:

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=171

Look under - Membership Field Staff

But approaching them with a question like "when are you going to make the UCI publish blood values" is going to be kind of like walking into a BP station and asking them to do more to clean up the Gulf.

That said, I've found that the USAC is as responsive as they can be. There's not much they can do about Operation Puerto or AC's plasticizer test, but if you've got a problem they can help solve, they will do what they can. Just my $0.02.