Patriotism

[auscyclefan94]

Starting this thread because it is destroying the Pegasus thread. Discuss patriotism here...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Patriotism is an irrational support of a shared identity created by often arbitrary boundaries.

It's stupid, and too much of it can be dangerous, but we all have some of it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Patriotism is an irrational support of a shared identity created by often arbitrary boundaries.

It's stupid, and too much of it can be dangerous, but we all have some of it.

I personally think that statement is a bit extreme. Don't you feel any sort of compassion for your fellow countrymen?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I personally think that statement is a bit extreme. Don't you feel any sort of compassion for your fellow countrymen?

Not particularly. I've lived abroad a fair bit, and have found that for the most part I have more in common with people of similar life experiences from different countries than people with different life experiences from the same country.

 

[The Hitch]

....is the last refuge of the scoundrel

I personally think that statement is a bit extreme. Don't you feel any sort of compassion for your fellow countrymen?

I do wonder what country that is.

The lack of patriotism is one of the reasons i like this forum. You have a very good list of top quality posters who do not go round supporting riders based on nationality. I dont support anyone based on nationality neither.

 

[hrotha]

Patriotism is an irrational support of a shared identity created by often arbitrary boundaries.

It's stupid, and too much of it can be dangerous, but we all have some of it.

This, a hundred times.

Patriotism, nationalism and chauvinism are pretty much the same thing.

 

[The Hitch]

This, a hundred times.

Patriotism, nationalism and chauvinism are pretty much the same thing.

what about fanboyism?

 

[pmcg76]

Not particularly. I've lived abroad a fair bit, and have found that for the most part I have more in common with people of similar life experiences from different countries than people with different life experiences from the same country.

+1 I have lived abroad a fair bit as well and that is why I said my opinion is that Americans/Aussies are the most demonstrative in showing their patriotism. I am not just making that up to **** people of, that is my own observations based on my experiences living in those and many other countries.

Yes, at international sports, every country becomes more patriotic but in general everyday life Americans/Aussies are more so. Nothing actually wrong with that but it can be abused(especially by politicans) as has happened many tmes.

Nobody likes people from outside their own country criticising them but fact is, people who are not from that country are usually the most balanced and objective.

 

[BroDeal]

I personally think that statement is a bit extreme. Don't you feel any sort of compassion for your fellow countrymen?

Nope. Most of them are a-holes.

Jingoistic people creep me out the same way that religious nuts do.

 

[pmcg76]

A friend of mine recently visited Slovakia with his Slovakian girlfriend. He told me how much he enjoyed the outdoor Christmas markets but said there wasnt as much 'craic'(fun) in the bars as in Ireland.

I mentioned this to a Slovakian work friend to wind him up a bit. He said

"Oh yes, Irish 'craic'. People getting totally wasted drunk, dropping their glasses smashing on the floor, fighting, getting sick and generally acting like arseholes, great Irish craic"

A lot of people would have been offended by a foreigner making such disparaing remarks about Irish people. I just laughed because its absolutely 100% true.

 

[Ferminal]

Patriotism suggests that those outside your physical boundaries are not equals... There is an equal and opposite force to patriotism in terms of a view on foreign groups.

I am apatriotic, if that is a word.

To be honest though in sport I support the local or national team more than a foreign competitor. There is nothing wrong with supporting a particular team/person passionately, and I'd share in the passion of winning/losing with the "mob" rather than supporting a foreign outfit. A sport like cycling is a bit different I think because its so international, and there is no real mainstream following of the sport in Australia. Some of my favourite riders are Australian and I'm happy to see any of them win, but if you don't go in with a closed mind, all great individual performances can be gratifying regardless of who they are. I wouldn't call it patriotism, but we are more exposed to our local performers and if you follow a career closely over a number of years its difficult to discontinue that.

I love how for most part cycling breaks everything down into its simplest form.

Away from sport I am definitely not patriotic. I generally feel embrassed and ashamed of the behaviour from too many people in my "country" to love them all blindly.

 

[Martin318is]

I would have said that the English are more notably patriotic than Australians (note that I didn't say British - I am referring to the George Cross wearing "Englishman")

Regardless, I agree with the premise that patriotism in anything greater than the level of "oh thats nice, an ____ won" is a clear sign of a sub-optimal intellect.

The level of, "he/she is better than other people because he/she is an _____" is just plain ***.

 

[Polish]

At the "Love your Neighbor" level, patriotism has no place.

But at the sporting level, patriotism is appropriate and entertaining!

World Cup Soccer for example.
Olympic and World Championships too.
The Ashes
Texas vs Texas A&M
It is ok to root for the home team.

National Teams disappeared from the Tour de France not too long ago.

I think it would be fun to have a TdF or Giro with National Teams again for a year - just for nostalgia's sake. Like using cobbled or dirt roads for a stage for old times sake.

Heck, the Australian's even have a name for their National Cycling Team.
The Cyclones. Go Cyclones Go!

http://www.procyclegear.com/australia_national_cyclones_jersey.htm

 

[Spare Tyre]

Patriotism is an irrational support of a shared identity created by often arbitrary boundaries.

It's stupid, and too much of it can be dangerous, but we all have some of it.

Agreed, absolutely.

Not particularly. I've lived abroad a fair bit, and have found that for the most part I have more in common with people of similar life experiences from different countries than people with different life experiences from the same country.

I haven't lived abroad, but find the same thing.

Patriotism, nationalism and chauvinism are pretty much the same thing.

Agreed.

Yes, at international sports, every country becomes more patriotic but in general everyday life Americans/Aussies are more so. Nothing actually wrong with that but it can be abused(especially by politicans) as has happened many tmes.

Patriotism outside sport is relatively recent in Australia. We used to look at American flag-waving patriotism and think it was nuts. Sadly some politicians found it expedient to exploit the notion of "Australian-ness" and now a generation of Australians knows no different.

I generally feel embrassed and ashamed of the behaviour from too many people in my "country" to love them all blindly.

Me too. I feel a strong connection to country, but not to many of its people.

The lack of patriotism is one of the reasons i like this forum. You have a very good list of top quality posters who do not go round supporting riders based on nationality. I dont support anyone based on nationality neither.

Yes, me too. For that reason I'm not keen to have an "Australian" team. I'd rather we didn't have one, actually, given the patriotism it is likely to elicit.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Surprised at the responses of some, I generally find australians to be patriotic people in that they are proud of there country. I feel we are a lucky country with no war in our homeland and I find most people very genuine. I feel proud to live in Aus especially when our national anthem is played. Does that mean I am jingoistic? maybe.

 

[benpounder]

The lack of patriotism is one of the reasons i like this forum. You have a very good list of top quality posters who do not go round supporting riders based on nationality. I dont support anyone based on nationality neither.

Bunk! What you have here are forum participants who love the sport. They/we dont just read the 'big race' results, we studiously digest everything regarding cycling. We admire good and honest cyclist irrespective of their origin. However, we do root for the "home team." That I have always rooted for Levi does not blind me to the fact that there are only several races in which he actually has a chance. I suspect ACF would admit as much for his "heros" over a pint.

 

[Rip:30]

 

[erader]

Surprised at the responses of some, I generally find australians to be patriotic people in that they are proud of there country. I feel we are a lucky country with no war in our homeland and I find most people very genuine. I feel proud to live in Aus especially when our national anthem is played. Does that mean I am jingoistic? maybe.

we were told we either fight them over there or else we would be fighting them here. have you ever considered joining the army?

erader

 

[rhubroma]

Patriotism is what provincials hold dear to, because, being incapable of thinking for themselves, need the nationalistic propaganda to do their thinking for them.

A patriot is someone who caves into base sentimentality and, believing in the false and illusory myth of the moral virtue and wholesomeness of the Homeland, is simply in need of a reality check.

Being attached to a culture, for example and artistic, civic or gastronomic legacy, or, let's say, an environment that is particularly appealing and reassuring is entirely different and not to be confused with patriotism, which is rather connected to "a people" and loyalty to the State's institutions.

In its worst form patrionism blinds people to the crimes of the State, any State, of which their are invariably always many and, in its most extream expressions, can (and has) become the basis for the worst nationalist ideologies the world has historically known.

 

[auscyclefan94]

we were told we either fight them over there or else we would be fighting them here. have you ever considered joining the army?

erader

No but I may help the army make some weapons for chemical warfare.
I could go on but we do have some posters on here who look at the glass half empty and I am kinds sick of going into long arguements with people.

 

[Boeing]

Starting this thread because it is destroying the Pegasus thread. Discuss patriotism here...

think I might start a "patronizing" thread now that you mentioned it

but first allow me to hijack

discuss patronizing here now

 

[Spare Tyre]

No but I may help the army make some weapons for chemical warfare.

No civil war, we don't carry on like a bunch of animals when protesting (i.e. unlike the british students) I could go on but we do have some posters on here who look at the glass half empty and I am kinds sick of going into long arguements with people.

Yeah, we save it for when we're having race riots at Cronulla.

 

[rhubroma]

*** edited by mod **

nasty, totally inappropriate and insulting

 

[Ferminal]

Yeah, we save it for when we're having race riots at Cronulla.

Touche....

Btw I love the passion of the French to protest and/or riot when necessary.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Everybody want to take it down a notch here?

Otherwise this thread will be shut down. I don't like to do that, but if you all can't control the insults, it will happen.

Susan