Phil Anderson's expression and comments when talking about Armstrong

[Indurain]

If any of you were watching SBS tour coverage at the end, Phil Anderson was saying that in the early 90's Armstrong couldn't climb, couldn't timetrial and wasn't even considered a tour hopeful, but was okay in some of the classics. Mike Tomalaris then said something to Phil Anderson about the Astana truck being searched and how Armstrong always says, they won't find anything because there is nothing to find, his clean.

Phil Anderson looked down and got this huge smile across his face and looked to be holding back the laughter. Almost couldn't contain himself. For a moment there I thought he was going to say what a load of crap and spill the beans.

Then I read in today's news that Armstrong changed his bike position a little and suddenly is riding like the Armstrong of old. Maybe that has been my missing ingredient all this time. Armstrong is a perfectionist. He would know every millimetre of his positioning off by heart and would have it all exact from the word go. What a load of crap. They didn't find anything on the truck because they probably used it all the day before.

 

[Anonymous]

They didn't find anything on the truck because they probably used it all the day before.

Why would Astana be so stupid as to keep their doping supplies in such a high profile vehicle in the first place? Seems the authorities are using wishful thinking and need to be a little more creative about where to search.

 

[kiwirider]

Then I read in today's news that Armstrong changed his bike position a little and suddenly is riding like the Armstrong of old. Maybe that has been my missing ingredient all this time.

Like you, I was surprised when I read this. In addition to your comments about how well he'd know his position and all, I'm going to put in a word for the quality of the workmanship of the Astana mechanics ...

A few years ago I was lucky enough to have my bike worked on by a guy who is one of the current crop of Astana mechanics (it was his off-season from the high profile pro team that he was working for at that stage). As well as working on my bike, he also loaned me his cross bike to take for a ride - so had to set that bike up to match my bike. Man ... what a perfectionist and what a pleasure to watch him work ... I have never had a bike run better - and I say that with having had my bikes worked on by three national team mechanics at various stages ...

So, while I know that "people are human" and are capable of mistakes, if the mechanic I knew was anything to judge by, I'd be mighty surprised if there was a mistake in set up of any of the Astana bikes that was significant enough to make a difference to the performance of anyone on the team ...

 

[unsheath]

Im glad Anderson didnt give the answer Tomalaris was fishing for. He would have known better than most as he was Armstrong mentor of sorts when at Motorola. Caught Tomalaris off guard for sure. I guess he's been used to surrounding himself with Armstrong lovers that this was quite unexpected.

As for LA's change in bike position, I also found this quite bizarre given Armstrong's obsessive nature. I doubt his bike position has changed in ten years. Rest day refills anyone?

 

[elapid]

People cite Armstrong's obsessiveness about his bike setup, but how can someone so obsessive about his setup do a time trial with his brake rubbing against his rims (2003 TdF I think)? And, as others have said on this thread, why would he be riding a bike that is not set up perfectly? I have seen movies of Merckx stopping during a race to adjust his saddle position. Armstrong is obsessive, but I doubt that he is that obsessive about his bike setup based on these two examples.

 

[dienekes88]

People cite Armstrong's obsessiveness about his bike setup, but how can someone so obsessive about his setup do a time trial with his brake rubbing against his rims (2003 TdF I think)? And, as others have said on this thread, why would he be riding a bike that is not set up perfectly? I have seen movies of Merckx stopping during a race to adjust his saddle position. Armstrong is obsessive, but I doubt that he is that obsessive about his bike setup based on these two examples.

I think it was a mountain stage in 2003.

Im glad Anderson didnt give the answer Tomalaris was fishing for. He would have known better than most as he was Armstrong mentor of sorts when at Motorola. Caught Tomalaris off guard for sure. I guess he's been used to surrounding himself with Armstrong lovers that this was quite unexpected.

As for LA's change in bike position, I also found this quite bizarre given Armstrong's obsessive nature. I doubt his bike position has changed in ten years. Rest day refills anyone?

The dope controllers are probably thinking the exact same thing. Look for tweets about rapid fire testing.

I imagine that as a Tour grinds on and as a guy loses flexibility with age... the optimal position can change slightly. If the muscles and tendons are particularly tight (possibly due to racing for 16 days?)... then changing the position might be necessary.

The body is dynamic.

 

[elapid]

I imagine that as a Tour grinds on and as a guy loses flexibility with age... the optimal position can change slightly. If the muscles and tendons are particularly tight (possibly due to racing for 16 days?)... then changing the position might be necessary.

The body is dynamic.

This is very true. I remember reading an article about Tom Boonen increasing his saddle height by 2-3 mm as the season progressed as he became more flexible.

Flexibility is one of the criteria used by fitting systems like Serotta. But these fits take 2 hours and a CompuTrainer. I doubt he had either the facilities or time or desire to do this after yesterday's stage.

 

[Indurain]

Yeah but to go from feeling like a 'fish out of water' to almost the Armstrong of old!! Reminded me of his attack up Mt.Ventoux. Just not as long. Did it in steps.
But hey, Phil's face said it all, and his words were just as damning. At least Bradley Wiggins could timetrial. So perhaps it is possible to increase climbing ability to some extent with weight loss. But for Armstrong to go from a non-climber and non timetriallist to a champion at both, who would have thought.

 

[BroDeal]

They didn't find anything on the truck because they probably used it all the day before.

Rumsas had his wife carry his stash, and that was the better part of a decade ago. After the searches of the vehicles in the 1998 Tour and the 1999 Giro, I don't think anyone with a brain would be carrying their gear with them.

Postal used to have their blood brought in by courier on motorcycle according to Landis.

 

[Ozzie2]

This is very true. I remember reading an article about Tom Boonen increasing his saddle height by 2-3 mm as the season progressed as he became more flexible.

Flexibility is one of the criteria used by fitting systems like Serotta. But these fits take 2 hours and a CompuTrainer. I doubt he had either the facilities or time or desire to do this after yesterday's stage.

2-3mm or 2-3ml?

come on, 2-3mm will not make a bees d*ck of difference

7-10 starts to

true that lance supposedly has a long femur, so if they reposition him it would make a difference, but come on, i know 14yr olds at th elocal bike club that get measured every way and get well positioned. do we really think a rider will get that far only to discover they are improperly positioned?

we moved the seat is up there with (aussies know these) I drank 23 cups of coffee, mum gave me these weight loss tabletsm, the dog ate my homeword, seagulls, must have eaten an infected steak, yada yada

truly i don't think they want to catch him. the sport can't take the destruction of one of its icons and brands. i dont like him but i would be sad for kids and sport if it were_official_that he juiced for 15 yrs.

comments >>>>>>they won't find anything because there is nothing to find, his clean. ............Phil Anderson looked down and got this huge smile across his face and looked to be holding back the laughter.


admittedly there might bot be beans to spill, just a chucke to the naivety that anyone would really think they store these things in the fridge or like place in the team cars or truck




>>>>>Then I read in today's news that Armstrong changed his bike position a little and suddenly is riding like the Armstrong of old


now THAT is your giveaway. who said that and why? liars over explain.

cadell just says "team politics means i can't comment" which means either his doctor gave him a really bad dose, or he just can't keep up with everyone else infront of him who must be doping. (or maybe he just has a sh*t team)

remember, its not the dogs who bark to look for- its the dogs who don't bark.
look for who can't keep up on these climbs, not who'se in the leading group and the 1 bolter from there

 

[elapid]

2-3mm or 2-3ml?

come on, 2-3mm will not make a bees d*ck of difference

Hey - I am not saying that the miniscule change in bike setup was the cause of Armstrong's better performance today. I am saying that IMO flexibility is important in bike setup and that I agree dienekes88 in that this is a dynamic part of bike fit. I am not astute enough to realise a 2-3 mm difference in saddle height, but I am not a professional cyclist and maybe the likes of Boonen can feel the difference. Merckx was definitely a perfectionist in regards to bike fit and I have no doubt he felt small differences. The results of correcting these small difference on performance on the road is another thing.

 

[Bagster]

I think it was a mountain stage in 2003.



The dope controllers are probably thinking the exact same thing. Look for tweets about rapid fire testing.

I imagine that as a Tour grinds on and as a guy loses flexibility with age... the optimal position can change slightly. If the muscles and tendons are particularly tight (possibly due to racing for 16 days?)... then changing the position might be necessary.

The body is dynamic.

While I agree totally with your comments I find it laughable that Armstrong launches one bridging attack and all the dopeheads on here start firing up. His attack came a time when they guys in front had slowed with Andy knowing his efforts had been in vain. Why do i say that? because they were not making hardly any ground on Pelezotti during that whole time of attacking by Schlecklet. The attack was weak and was covered easily by Conti and the rest.

Yeas Lance looked strong going across the gap, but so what, it was his sort of climb; not too steep and he could keep up a high cadence. As for the difference in the way he climbed the previous day, it was on a hill with a totally different gradient, it was following a rest day and people react differently to rest days in terms of performance. Plus anyone who has done any multi day tours will know that you can feel quite different from day to day and even from hour to hour. Obviously a lot who post on here spend much of their time in chemistry books riding the sofa rather than a bike. If they took their heads out of their conspiracy books they would see that the same guys who were up there two days ago were up there again today. I notice none of them have mentioned Van de Velde who was totally in the hurtbox two days ago and yet he managed to bridge across to Lance today. Why is that I wonder...cuz they don't hate him they only hate LA.

 

[Escarabajo]

While I agree totally with your comments I find it laughable that Armstrong launches one bridging attack and all the dopeheads on here start firing up. His attack came a time when they guys in front had slowed with Andy knowing his efforts had been in vain. Why do i say that? because they were not making hardly any ground on Pelezotti during that whole time of attacking by Schlecklet. The attack was weak and was covered easily by Conti and the rest.

Yeas Lance looked strong going across the gap, but so what, it was his sort of climb; not too steep and he could keep up a high cadence. As for the difference in the way he climbed the previous day, it was on a hill with a totally different gradient, it was following a rest day and people react differently to rest days in terms of performance. Plus anyone who has done any multi day tours will know that you can feel quite different from day to day and even from hour to hour. Obviously a lot who post on here spend much of their time in chemistry books riding the sofa rather than a bike. If they took their heads out of their conspiracy books they would see that the same guys who were up there two days ago were up there again today. I notice none of them have mentioned Van de Velde who was totally in the hurtbox two days ago and yet he managed to bridge across to Lance today. Why is that I wonder...cuz they don't hate him they only hate LA.

Why do you always have to be offensive? Almost every post that you write is offensive. Remember this is the Clinic Forum and it is about speculation.

 

[Eva Maria]

while I agree with Phil's personal skepticism of Armstrong it is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

Phil is, was, and always will be a douchebag

 

[elapid]

Bagster, how many of the posts have you read on this thread? There are two that talk about Armstrong's attack. And no one is talking chemistry here, but some of us are talking about bike fitting. May be we are guilty of taking Indurain's comment out of proportion ("Then I read in today's news that Armstrong changed his bike position a little and suddenly is riding like the Armstrong of old."), but you'll find most of the posts are actually agreeing that bike fit is dynamic and will change during the season, if not a race.

As for the OP, he was reporting on the reaction of Phil Anderson to questions posed to him. Phil is a legend in Australia and has done plenty more classics and tours than all of us combined. His opinion on Armstrong and doping, whether it be stated outright or inferred from facial expressions, is valid as an ex-top level professional cyclist.

So maybe you can stop your illusions of grandeur and ill-conceived perceptions that none of us ride, ride hard, race, or ride multiday tours, and argue according to the direction of the thread rather than trying to hijack yet another thread with your boring "Armstrong hater" rant.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Phil Anderson looked down and got this huge smile across his face and looked to be holding back the laughter. Almost couldn't contain himself. For a moment there I thought he was going to say what a load of crap and spill the beans..

LMAO. That's funny! I loved Phil, unlike Eva, but I have to say, if anyone knew what the past was like...

Wonder what Berospenner thinks of this?

Armstrong's brake rubbing story came from the Alpe d'Huez climb in 2003, heading to Borg d'Osians LA and Heras clipped each other and both went down. After the day was done Lance said the reason why he couldn't keep up with some of the others (Mayo, Vino) is because of the brake rubbing.

A big part of Merckx saddle adjustments was because of his back problems.

 

[runninboy]

A big part of Merckx saddle adjustments was because of his back problems.

Didn't he used to adjust his saddle on the road before descending?
I seem to remember seeing photos of him riding with one hand while he is working a wrench under his saddle?

 

[Ozzie2]

Hey - I am not saying that the miniscule change in bike setup was the cause of Armstrong's better performance today. I am saying that IMO flexibility is important in bike setup and that I agree dienekes88 in that this is a dynamic part of bike fit. I am not astute enough to realise a 2-3 mm difference in saddle height, but I am not a professional cyclist and maybe the likes of Boonen can feel the difference. Merckx was definitely a perfectionist in regards to bike fit and I have no doubt he felt small differences. The results of correcting these small difference on performance on the road is another thing.

you are very right
yes, a small change can make a big difference- esp when riding for 5 hours!
also yeah i respect these professionals know their set ups and what works.
i guess i was trying to be funny as to that 2-3ml can make a waaay bigger difference than 2-3mm could

as for the comments by others on phil anderson, his weird haircut and personality aside, what he has achieved is undeniable and his opinions coments or twits (and what he doesn't say too i might add) must be respected as having significant value

he is a legend is Oz for doing what Greg LeMond did. we once saw the TdF for 5 minutes on a Saturday sports show- thanks to his trailblazing and subsewquent riders like McGee, McEwen, and O'Grady (um, how did he becoe such a good train driver can I ask) it enables SBS to takeup the mantle and the sport is on for good here.

thx

 

[psychlist]

Contador has been sneaking out to the bicycle van at night and lowering his seat height by a few mm.

Before Ventoux he is going to switch out Lances bike for one with a smaller frame.

 

[Kennf1]

while I agree with Phil's personal skepticism of Armstrong it is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

Phil is, was, and always will be a douchebag

Why (do you say this to satisfy the 10-character rule)?

 

[hfer07]

2-3mm or 2-3ml?

come on, 2-3mm will not make a bees d*ck of difference

It's so evident that don't ride.. no need to even comment on your lack of knowledge...

 

[Kennf1]

Contador has been sneaking out to the bicycle van at night and lowering his seat height by a few mm.

Before Ventoux he is going to switch out Lances bike for one with a smaller frame.

Or even worse, switch the 175 cranks to 172.5s.

 

[Ozzie2]

It's so evident that don't ride.. no need to even comment on your lack of knowledge...

Can I ask. Do you feel better now?

Really.

Am I that uneducated that I am unworthy of a rebuttal even?

May I say it’s the bright spots on this forum (ie the great majority of people here) that make it enjoyable for many non cyclists to visit, discuss and learn.

If my lack of knowledge is detestable and you’d all prefer people such as myself leave then please make note on the entry page the high and mighty requirements to post in this room.

(are you American?)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm American.

Please stick around. Ask all the questions you like. Discuss anything you like - topic related anyway.

 

[Ozzie2]

Well…. we all have our problems. But you’ve clearly overcome that disability so I guess you’re alright I won’t it that against you. The French may.

You’re a bit of a legend actually. I’ll forgive you for 8 years of Dubya because of that
(humour- I’m sure you know us Aussies well enough to get it).

Thanks for your posts, I’m learning much and makes watching the race even better. Listening to the David Walsh and Betsy Andreau interviews for instance I have learned that the LAST people a cyclist can trust are those paying their salaries, there is little trust in the sport but great friendships, the cyclists give it EVERYthing and get paid didly squat. And the only people making money are the TdF organisers and the chemists taking 10-15% of a racers salary.

Can I ask are you an anonymous/ non de plum person here or is your identity known?