Phillippe Gaumont - Heart Attack

[MarkvW]

You're right. There are hardly any health problems due to doping.

Those stories about guys having to get up in middle of the night to just to keep their blood moving are just fairy tales.

Same with Hamilton's story about ****ing black and believing he was going to die because of injecting bad blood.

And Manzano collapsing and almost dying during a race.

And Riccardo Riccò almost dying following a blood transfusion.

And Rudy Dhaenens suffering heart problems and having to retire two years after winning the worlds.

And Fabrice Salanson dying of a heart attack in his sleep at 23.

And Marco Rusconi dieing of a heart attack at 24.

And the great Jose Maria Jimenez dying of a heart attack at 32.

And Michel Zanoli dying of a heart attack at 35.

And Johan Sermon dying of heart problems at 21

And Johannes Draaijer dying at 26 due to heart blockage.

And Bert Oosterbosch dying at 32 due to cardiac arrest.

And all the others.

Thank you for clearing things up. It was just a fluke that Gaumont died young of a heart attack.

Maybe it was a cocaine overdose . . .. The jury's still out, eh?

 

[RHRH19861986]

I don't think RHRH was actually saying there was no link, just that it may not always be the case.

Exactly, thanks

I´m sure a 10 or 20 kg overweight, non sportsman, who has his two beer every day, eats fatty and lots of sugar (and so creates diabetes), and does that every day of his adult life, lives (for all his life) just as unhealthy as a Gaumont or whatever doping cyclist lives during his years in pro cycling.

They have ECG frequently, monitored blood values, and so on. There are, indeed, cases where top sportsmen get seriously ill, but it´s just a minority.

Most of them have a normal life, during and after career.

The amounts of PEDs in pro cycling are also much, much lower than e.g. in Wrestling or Pro Bodybuilding.

Don´t know what exactly happened to Gaumont. If a rider took amphetamines and cocaine during his career, it´s always possible that he continues to do so also after his career. I don´t want to claim that it was the case with him, but it´s possible. It´s also possible that some business manager or some pop singer or whoever, aged 40, somewhere in the world, takes amphetamines or cocaine and has a heart attack, aged 40. And, for sure, it´s possible that some health guru who has his vitamin pills and his soya milk and his olive oil every day, never smokes, never drinks alcohol, has his or her heart attack aged 40.

I´d rate amphetamines and cocaine and this Pot Belge stuff as really unhealthy, no doubt about it.

Taking small (!) doses of EPO, testosterone or Growth Hormones, however, I´d even rate as almost healthy, or, at least, non damaging. It protects the rider from really destroying his hormone levels, which just would be the case in World Tour pro cycling, which for itself has nothing to do with healthy cycling.

 

[LaPlagne87]

No, none. Never actually noticed that, both Meiers and both goalkeepers... But 100% no relation.

Edit: By the way, after rethinking it, it´s Bernd Meier and Sepp Maier...

Ah fair enough. From the videos I've seen, Sepp was absolutely fantastic and had really marvelous hair. Sad for Bernd, especially after reading Robert Enke's biography last year.

 

[Schwartzchov]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Gaumont

He then said that he thought that 95% of professional racers doped themselves and expressed very strong doubts that a racer could win a major tour, such as the Tour de France, without doping.

Similar to the statements and views of Bernhard Kohl.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

You're right. There are hardly any health problems due to doping.

Those stories about guys having to get up in middle of the night to just to keep their blood moving are just fairy tales.

Same with Hamilton's story about ****ing black and believing he was going to die because of injecting bad blood.

And Manzano collapsing and almost dying during a race.

And Riccardo Riccò almost dying following a blood transfusion.

And Rudy Dhaenens suffering heart problems and having to retire two years after winning the worlds.

And Fabrice Salanson dying of a heart attack in his sleep at 23.

And Marco Rusconi dieing of a heart attack at 24.

And the great Jose Maria Jimenez dying of a heart attack at 32.

And Michel Zanoli dying of a heart attack at 35.

And Johan Sermon dying of heart problems at 21

And Johannes Draaijer dying at 26 due to heart blockage.

And Bert Oosterbosch dying at 32 due to cardiac arrest.

And all the others.

Thank you for clearing things up. It was just a fluke that Gaumont died young of a heart attack.

Great post, I don't know how anyone can say EPO, testosterone, growth hormone, plus weight reducing drugs, stimulants and maybe other stuff aren't bad for you or maybe even good for you.

 

[RHRH19861986]

Great post, I don't know how anyone can say EPO, testosterone, growth hormone, plus weight reducing drugs, stimulants and maybe other stuff aren't bad for you or maybe even good for you.

Weight reducing drugs, stimulants and "other stuff" (illegal drugs) are always bad: they increase pulse and blood pressure while doing no excercise, so are a harmful task for the body to get along with. Especially bad for heart and cardiovascular system. These PEDs are NEVER healthy.

EPO, testosterone and HGH are hormones that the body also produces, naturally. Intensive, long lasting endurance training and racing will lead to the situation that the body itself, naturally and "cleanly", has problems to keep a sufficient level of the hormones, endogenously. So adding these hormones exogenously (low doses) just bring you back to the level you normally, without training, racing and strong diet, would have. So SMALL doses of these hormones aren´t harmful - they can even be healthy then.

 

[thirteen]

<snip>
Thank you for clearing things up. It was just a fluke that Gaumont died young of a heart attack.

he died???

 

[L'arriviste]

he died???

No. He is in a coma.

 

[thirteen]

No. He is in a coma.

i know that and i posted in the general thread in the "other" forum before this one was started.

i questioned it because of what Zweistein said above:

It was just a fluke that Gaumont died young of a heart attack.

i understand what he was trying to say; i just found it in poor taste -- you don't have to kill somebody to make a point

here is hoping that Gaumont survives. he is strong.

 

[Zweistein]

No. He is in a coma.

Yeah, in a coma. In my list, everyone was dying of heart attacks and my brain just went on cruise control.

 

[thirteen]

Yeah, in a coma. In my list, everyone was dying of heart attacks and my brain just went on cruise control.

it's cool... it's just that my heart stopped for a second when i saw that...

anyways, thank you. it was a good post otherwise.

 

[stainlessguy1]

pro cycling and the heart issue

Lots of good posts from both sides of the immediate breaking news that yet another X racer is suffering from a major heart attack . This time P Gaumont.

I think it is upsetting that people get so alarmed over this issue because deep down every cyclist thinks, because of all the training and years of it at high intensity , we are somewhat invincible to such a fate.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The topic is so broad and the genetics of the human being plays such a role as does the lifestyle both pre and post Pro or top ranked amateur that it would be books and books of research all of which cannot be written in a page or two of forum post.

The trade or job an athlete falls back into also plays a huge role for those at least that died or are afflicted with the heart dis-ease issue after retiring from pro or top ranked racing.

The base category separations of dying during the racing careers or dying long after retirement but still too young to die from that affliction because of the super health status that cycling is supposed to give us, must be made.
Everyone must start comparing with some sort of a control group before we all jump to conclusions.

I would like to point out that pro cyclists that did not use PED's are afflicted with the same problems later on in life. Why ?
Careful observation and experience and research will lead down a path that points to the direction , all things being equal a person chasing a doper up a mountain with vigor year after year , will continuously be riding over his threshold and in so doing literally riding himself to death. ( as one of the research institutes of Italy have noted in their conclusions regarding early tragic cyclists death) .
A type individuals are affected by this in a big way , because their mind set wont give up .
I am sorry I don't have the exact link to this , but as soon as I find it again I hope to post it.

I will just say that you all have computers and can link up with different categories of heart dis-ease rather than me putting up a direct link for you .

The reason for this is , I want you all to research it and in so doing you will all click on something different , and I hope that the universe will lead you down a path that answers your very personal questions for your own situation that might be coming at you . ( even if its fear of your situation)
I don't believe in coincidences but I do believe in balance and all things that happen , happen for a reason.

Good Luck , to all .

 

[RHRH19861986]

Lots of good posts from both sides of the immediate breaking news that yet another X racer is suffering from a major heart attack . This time P Gaumont.

I think it is upsetting that people get so alarmed over this issue because deep down every cyclist thinks, because of all the training and years of it at high intensity , we are somewhat invincible to such a fate.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The topic is so broad and the genetics of the human being plays such a role as does the lifestyle both pre and post Pro or top ranked amateur that it would be books and books of research all of which cannot be written in a page or two of forum post.

The trade or job an athlete falls back into also plays a huge role for those at least that died or are afflicted with the heart dis-ease issue after retiring from pro or top ranked racing.

The base category separations of dying during the racing careers or dying long after retirement but still too young to die from that affliction because of the super health status that cycling is supposed to give us, must be made.
Everyone must start comparing with some sort of a control group before we all jump to conclusions.

I would like to point out that pro cyclists that did not use PED's are afflicted with the same problems later on in life. Why ?
Careful observation and experience and research will lead down a path that points to the direction , all things being equal a person chasing a doper up a mountain with vigor year after year , will continuously be riding over his threshold and in so doing literally riding himself to death. ( as one of the research institutes of Italy have noted in their conclusions regarding early tragic cyclists death) .
A type individuals are affected by this in a big way , because their mind set wont give up .
I am sorry I don't have the exact link to this , but as soon as I find it again I hope to post it.

I will just say that you all have computers and can link up with different categories of heart dis-ease rather than me putting up a direct link for you .

The reason for this is , I want you all to research it and in so doing you will all click on something different , and I hope that the universe will lead you down a path that answers your very personal questions for your own situation that might be coming at you . ( even if its fear of your situation)
I don't believe in coincidences but I do believe in balance and all things that happen , happen for a reason.

Good Luck , to all .

That´s a very good post, agree 100%

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I would like to point out that pro cyclists that did not use PED's are afflicted with the same problems later on in life. Why ?
Careful observation and experience and research will lead down a path that points to the direction , all things being equal a person chasing a doper up a mountain with vigor year after year , will continuously be riding over his threshold and in so doing literally riding himself to death. ( as one of the research institutes of Italy have noted in their conclusions regarding early tragic cyclists death) .
A type individuals are affected by this in a big way , because their mind set wont give up .

Every motor has a point of stopping.

But not only the motor. How about depression et all. Worn out knees. Worn out backs.

Good input.

Lets hope Gaumont recovers.

 

[stainlessguy1]

cyclist heart

thank you RH

for those of you who are out of time , this article and its link covers pretty much most of the issues related to what affects cyclists .

It is not the Italian article I was looking for, ( which was translated into English) and also was researched specifically for cyclists and far more recent if my memory serves me correct.

However this article does have the basic goods and known research facts.
Most of you can put 2 and 2 together and figure out what happens to us from here.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1769182/

 

[stainlessguy1]

absolutely

Every motor has a point of stopping.

But not only the motor. How about depression et all. Worn out knees. Worn out backs.

Good input.

Lets hope Gaumont recovers.

I hope he recovers and recovers with his mind intact .

Depression a silent killer which has the tenacity to afflict us in many areas of our body. Starting with our mind where it roots itself and we ( especially men) live with huge denial on this topic .

Life in general wears us down but nothing wears out the human body more than the reckless abuse of our body through imposing things on it that it wasn't designed for, and for what purpose .
The answers to the last part of that sentence we already know in our hearts and minds .

I guess in short when the end doesn't justify the means anymore we know we made a mistake , we left things undone , there is more too life; By that time its usually already to late.

The secret to longevity is balance. The secret to balance is living a more humble life. The secret of a humble life is to strengthen the spirit as well as the body.

Easier said than done .

 

[Zweistein]

I would like to point out that pro cyclists that did not use PED's are afflicted with the same problems later on in life. Why ?
.

What basis is this? I don't remember cyclist dying of heart attacks young before the advent of EPO and blood transfusions.

 

[Zweistein]

EPO, testosterone and HGH are hormones that the body also produces, naturally. Intensive, long lasting endurance training and racing will lead to the situation that the body itself, naturally and "cleanly", has problems to keep a sufficient level of the hormones, endogenously. So adding these hormones exogenously (low doses) just bring you back to the level you normally, without training, racing and strong diet, would have. So SMALL doses of these hormones aren´t harmful - they can even be healthy then.

Why does the sport need EPO, testosterone, and HGH as you are implying? How did previous generations manage? With even longer stages? And more days of racing? They must have been dropping like flies. Oh wait, that didn't happen. They just didn't ride as fast.

From a sporting perspective, who can get excited about watching a sport that is just a contest of who can dope the best?

 

[Rusty Bike]

Gaumont was a complete lunatic. The anti doping side of me wants to condemn him. The mongrel in me loves the behavior he got up to on the partying side of things.

 

[stainlessguy1]

What basis is this? I don't remember cyclist dying of heart attacks young before the advent of EPO and blood transfusions.

Hello Twostone:

If you read post on the bottom of page four on this column and click on the link you can pretty much get all the details.
I did say that those cyclists are afflicted with the same problems as pros that doped. It was a sentence that has to do with heart problems generated in part by athletes heart and in part exasperated by riding over their natural threshold over many years .
( much like a race horse that zapped its strength, as the saying goes from many years gone by . )
A person does not need to die to have the ailment , I never said they were also dropping like flies . I did mean by that statement that the athlete is damaged goods.
Please read the entire article and at the bottom of the article it states a paragraph for actually *detraining * ............ very important for retiring cyclists.

I would like to add one thing on the death issue, when a doctor diagnosis a cyclist , especially a good contender that could of went just as far had fate been on their side , that is like a death sentence for that rider . Being turned into a civilian/ tourist is hard too take for many. It doesn't matter when the news comes , during your licensed racing career or after retirement or during a comeback try with a son or daughter many years later . The shock is unbelievable .

 

[RHRH19861986]

Why does the sport need EPO, testosterone, and HGH as you are implying? How did previous generations manage? With even longer stages? And more days of racing? They must have been dropping like flies. Oh wait, that didn't happen. They just didn't ride as fast.

From a sporting perspective, who can get excited about watching a sport that is just a contest of who can dope the best?

You are right, of course, because the riders don´t take EPO, GH and testo to stay healthy. They take it to ride faster and to win races.

From a health point of view, I´m convinced, it would be like this in world class pro cycling:

1st healthiest:
Taking small doses of hormones, controlled, just to reach natural levels, which got lost via training and racing hard and constantly.

2nd healthiest:
Taking no hormones.

3rd, so unhealthiest:
Taking much hormones, also higher doses, limited only by the fear of being positive in an anti-doping control.

 

[RHRH19861986]

Gaumont was a complete lunatic.

100% agree.

He was not much better than Frank Vandenbroucke.

For me, insane people. If every pro cyclist was like them, I´d refuse to follow pro cycling.

These people, for me, from mentality point of view, are/have been closer to being drug addicts than to "just average" doped cyclists.

 

[Master50]

I never remember where I read things but wasn't there a study of old pros to see how long they lived as compared to the general population of the same generation. The findings indicted that ex pros lived 4 to 8 years longer. I just recall the article was addressing the Myth that racing Le Tour shortens your life.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

The idea that being a fit healthy cyclist or distance runner shortens your lifespan to me is ridiculous.

Drugs are bad for your health, exercise is not.

The article at the bottom of page 4 about hypertrophic cardiomyopathy does nothing to persuade me from my opinion.

 

[Zweistein]

100% agree.

He was not much better than Frank Vandenbroucke.

For me, insane people. If every pro cyclist was like them, I´d refuse to follow pro cycling.

These people, for me, from mentality point of view, are/have been closer to being drug addicts than to "just average" doped cyclists.

Jaja coke
Simoni coke
Boonen coke
Ullrich ecstasy
Armstrong coke (according to landis but Tim Herman his lawyer says "Mr. Armstrong had no contact with strippers or cocaine.")