Political doping thread

[DanielSong39]

I'd like to start a thread based on political doping. The goal is to discuss issues related to a wide range of off-the-bike shenanigans and corruption that affect the sport. Examples include:

- Unfair/bogus rulings by race jury, often influenced by political pressure
- Bogus PR by the team manager/director
- Fake controversies to deflect attention from the real issues
- Double standards when it comes to drug tests and TUE's
- Lawyering up and double-talk when faced with controversies
- Harassment of whistle-blowers and/or inquisitive minds
- Complicit UCI and/or law enforcement
etc.

Fortunately a major one was averted today when Sagan was given a well-deserved DQ. I guess there is a limit to the corruption?

 

[Benotti69]

Dimension Data and Oli Cookson getting Sagan sent home = political doping.

 

[DanielSong39]

Fair enough. And this is just the thread to discuss the issue!

Any inside scoop on how Dimension Data, Cookson, and possibly FDJ (as Demare figures to be a huge beneficiary) may have affected the decision by the racing jury?

 

[ebandit]

Dimension Data and Oli Cookson getting Sagan sent home = political doping.

thanks! just read this here.........i'm lost for words

alas sagan allowed this possible by defending himself with his elbow but cav was at least as much
to blame

Mark L

 

[JosephK]

Re:

Dimension Data and Oli Cookson getting Sagan sent home = political doping.

Yes, I must agree. The irony is that in yet another TDF sprint crash involving Cavendish, it is not Cavendish himself who gets sent home.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Dimension Data and Oli Cookson getting Sagan sent home = political doping.

thanks! just read this here.........i'm lost for words

Then you post this. Found your words quick enough!!!!

alas sagan allowed this possible by defending himself with his elbow but cav was at least as much
to blame

Mark L

Sagan lifted elbow as Cav touched him. Cav falling before elbow lifted. Sagan out of the race suits Dimension data.

Cav in a stupid position thinking to come through a gap there. But not a lot of time to think in a TdF stage sprint.

 

[DFA123]

What possible 'political' benefit is their for ASO or the UCI to have the most high profile and one of the most widely supported riders in the peloton, and current world champion, thrown out of the race? Let alone supposedly to give some kind of advantage to an over the hill sprinter, recovering from injury who rides for one of the smallest teams in the race.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re:

What possible 'political' benefit is their for ASO or the UCI to have the most high profile and one of the most widely supported riders in the peloton, and current world champion, thrown out of the race? Let alone supposedly to give some kind of advantage to an over the hill sprinter, recovering from injury who rides for one of the smallest teams in the race.

Sometimes an overreaction asserts that they are the ones in control and they can gain power through fear and intimidation.

Another possibility is that they are in the tank for Demare - so a French rider can win green.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

What possible 'political' benefit is their for ASO or the UCI to have the most high profile and one of the most widely supported riders in the peloton, and current world champion, thrown out of the race? Let alone supposedly to give some kind of advantage to an over the hill sprinter, recovering from injury who rides for one of the smallest teams in the race.

Since when have UCI/ASO ever acted in the interests of the sport?

FFS!!!!

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

What possible 'political' benefit is their for ASO or the UCI to have the most high profile and one of the most widely supported riders in the peloton, and current world champion, thrown out of the race? Let alone supposedly to give some kind of advantage to an over the hill sprinter, recovering from injury who rides for one of the smallest teams in the race.

Since when have UCI/ASO ever acted in the interests of the sport?

FFS!!!!

I'm not talking about in the interests of the sport. I'm talking about in their own interests. What could they possibly have to gain from chucking out the most marketable and well-known star in the race? The sponsors won't be happy, the TV companies won't be happy, the fans won't be happy; so what exactly is their political motivation here?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

What possible 'political' benefit is their for ASO or the UCI to have the most high profile and one of the most widely supported riders in the peloton, and current world champion, thrown out of the race? Let alone supposedly to give some kind of advantage to an over the hill sprinter, recovering from injury who rides for one of the smallest teams in the race.

Since when have UCI/ASO ever acted in the interests of the sport?

FFS!!!!

I'm not talking about in the interests of the sport. I'm talking about in their own interests. What could they possibly have to gain from chucking out the most marketable and well-known star in the race? The sponsors won't be happy, the TV companies won't be happy, the fans won't be happy; so what exactly is their political motivation here?

It keeps the Cooksons happy.

 

[del1962]

Race Jury head from Belgium,perhaps he is in pocket of Lotto or Steppers or GVA, a crazy idea I know, but no less crazy than the other ideas in this thread

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Race Jury head from Belgium,perhaps he is in pocket of Lotto or Steppers or GVA, a crazy idea I know, but no less crazy than the other ideas in this thread

Hey it's pro cycling and anything is possible.

Verbruggen a Dutch UCI President in the pocket of Americans and a Belgian.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

What possible 'political' benefit is their for ASO or the UCI to have the most high profile and one of the most widely supported riders in the peloton, and current world champion, thrown out of the race? Let alone supposedly to give some kind of advantage to an over the hill sprinter, recovering from injury who rides for one of the smallest teams in the race.

Since when have UCI/ASO ever acted in the interests of the sport?

FFS!!!!

Who said they were? Not the post quoted. They act in their own self-interest. I think the questions asked here are on point.

 

[carton]

My tin-foil speculation:
ASO wanted Sagan docked points
UCI said you cant do that
ASO said, fine, we'll kick him out then
UCI said fine

Neither one blinked.

 

[leftover pie]

Any chance he could get re-instated following a protest?

So they can appear tough......and then merciful.

I'm sure there's a lot going on behind closed doors at the moment.

 

[purcell]

Well DD and ASO have a tie up .....

http://www2.dimensiondata.com/news/aso-and-dimension-data-announce-new-commentators-app-for-tour-de-france

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Even the British public are cottoning on now
it seems
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/05/public-faith-sport-low-corruption-doping-sacndals-survey

A string of doping and corruption scandals have left one third of British people with even less confidence in sport than they had a year ago, according to a survey.

 

[Galic Ho]

Re:

Dimension Data and Oli Cookson getting Sagan sent home = political doping.

This here...

Has gotten me angry.

The further we get into today, the worse this gets.

So...after posting in the racing threads and reading and refuting some points of view offered by SBS in Australia on social media I found a video from Lance Armstrong.

It was today's podcast.

Everyone should listen to Lance here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyQHyGbS8aQ

He gives some insight into the dynamics of sprints. The dangers and how things go.

What he reveals is what has me so peeved.

I already suspected Sagan had been the victim of political maneuvering by vested parties within the UCI and Dimension Data and possibly the ASO.

But to hear Lance give Jan Bakelandts version of events (he said it's a race accident) and then express a tweet or quote from Rolf Aldag that labelled the incident "vicious" and an attack whilst demanding "the UCI and commissars evict Sagan from the race" ... well, I had proof.

It happened. A DS from a team demanded something. The commissars did it. His team is linked to the UCI in a political way.

Lance Armstrong, the scape goat for all the UCI's fraud and nastiness revealed this. Rolf Aldag, doped, rode for T-Mobile, knew dopers, doped himself, never was severely punished and now has the NERVE to ask for a rival rider to be banned and gets his wish.

That's just plain evil and wrong.

Now he's crying foul...

Sorry Ralf, but you're the problem champ. Quit. Hand in your resignation. The line this man just crossed is so severe it doesn't need anything but his resignation. Immediately.

This man, has a rider on his squad who has caused several career ending and damaging crashes in recent years and his first instinct is not to show mercy, instead he asks for a head on a platter and gets it.

Dimension Data...you guys need to leave the sport ASAP. This is worse than doping. It's match fixing and fraud. Just go...nobody will miss you. Go.

Cav, has been shown so much leniency in the past. So many potential bans and he got nothing said to him. Now when the situation is reversed they ask for a head on a plate and get it. That's disgusting. I thought cycling had hit it's low point. This is the worst thing I've ever seen done in the history of me watching pro cycling.

The timing...he asked for it and they actually did what he said. With all their political connections. Ralf...you've crossed such a line there is not turning back. Leave the sport and never return. If you want to take your team...good riddance.

How they ended up with the final pro tour license anyway...is beyond me. Oh right, political influence at work again.

I hope this French UCI President hopeful has balls. Cycling needs big changes. Lance was right in the podcast...a cycling union would help stop this idiocy and fraud. It has to stop.

 

[doolols]

This place is amazing. Amazingly stupid.
A sprinter gets thrown off the Tour for headbutting another rider (but not causing an accident).
A sprinter gets thrown off the Tour for throwing a bidon at another rider (but not causing an accident).
A sprinter who deliberately moves across to block another rider and then lifts his elbow three times to push him aside, into the barriers, gets thrown off but it's all a political conspiracy? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[The Hitch]

Could someone PM me if Lance ever stops protecting cyclings current dopers?

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Even the British public are cottoning on now
it seems
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/05/public-faith-sport-low-corruption-doping-sacndals-survey

A string of doping and corruption scandals have left one third of British people with even less confidence in sport than they had a year ago, according to a survey.

Haha, nice article. Justice. Despite all the lies, people trust sport less.

I got really hopefull when I saw this:

but advertising revenues across the media are falling fast

.

Then I realized it was referring to the Guardian and not "Sport".

Oh well, just as good

 

[sniper]

Re:

This place is amazing. Amazingly stupid.
A sprinter gets thrown off the Tour for headbutting another rider (but not causing an accident).
A sprinter gets thrown off the Tour for throwing a bidon at another rider (but not causing an accident).
A sprinter who deliberately moves across to block another rider and then lifts his elbow three times to push him aside, into the barriers, gets thrown off but it's all a political conspiracy? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, i guess this was objectively a weird/unexpected decision.

From the reactions on twitter, it's clear that the accident allows for different interpretations.
Some harsh to Sagan, others less harsh.
So UCI had all the scope here to give Sagan a time penalty or whatever, and keep him in the Tour, and not too many would have complained about it.
It would have made sense commercially, too, since Sagan is not only a big attraction on his own, he also rides for a German team, and isn't UCI trying to open up the German market right now?

So while I have no personal like or dislike for this decision, objectively it's a bit weird/unexpected decision I think. And so there's room to speculate about politics and nepotism playing a role in the background.

 

[Gorecki]

Re:

This place is amazing. Amazingly stupid.
A sprinter gets thrown off the Tour for headbutting another rider (but not causing an accident).
A sprinter gets thrown off the Tour for throwing a bidon at another rider (but not causing an accident).
A sprinter who deliberately moves across to block another rider and then lifts his elbow three times to push him aside, into the barriers, gets thrown off but it's all a political conspiracy? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Because those two previous cases were intentional beyond any doubt. This one is not.

Yes, your comment is amazing. Amazingly stupid.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Since this is the clinic, and a Place for conspiracy... How about this, somebody has evidence of Sagan doping, but such a doping case would damage the Public image of the sport. What better idea than to throw him out for something else ?