Pro Tour Frames - Special Builds?

[r_mutt]

perhaps i'm naive in thinking that the pros ride the same bikes as we do.

do the Pro Tour guys- especially the bigger more powerful riders and the "stars"- get special treatment and have custom lay-up carbon bikes? surely guys like thor don't ride a bog-standard S5 (last year) as it's not stiff enough. does alberto get a special lightweight SL4? there's so much to be gained via advertising that you might think that these companies build the bikes specially for the star riders.

 

[DirtyWorks]

perhaps i'm naive in thinking that the pros ride the same bikes as we do.

do the Pro Tour guys- especially the bigger more powerful riders and the "stars"- get special treatment and have custom lay-up carbon bikes? surely guys like thor don't ride a bog-standard S5 (last year) as it's not stiff enough. does alberto get a special lightweight SL4? there's so much to be gained via advertising that you might think that these companies build the bikes specially for the star riders.

The only thing needed to make team bikes extra special is a new and different set of stickers. Carbon road frame sets are very likely plain production. http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/

Maybe something is more custom with TT or Spring classics (ex. Paris-Roubaix) equipment? It still comes down to the amount of power the rider puts out.

 

[Martin318is]

These days it seems more common that a special requirement will end up in a new commercial model.

For instance the Team Garmin Felt F1 SL frame ended up also having an F1SLR variant that included some extra carbon to improve stiffness for the top end sprinters after they requested it.

The requirement was from a specific pro custom request but it is now available for anyone to purchase.

 

[rgmerk]

surely guys like thor don't ride a bog-standard S5 (last year) as it's not stiff enough. does alberto get a special lightweight SL4? there's so much to be gained via advertising that you might think that these companies build the bikes specially for the star riders.

Remember, there's a 6.8kg weight limit, so there is no point in building ultra-lightweight "specials". It's dead easy to put together a bike that goes under that limit.

Rich amateurs regularly ride lighter bikes than Alberto does.

 

[42x16ss]

If a World Tour rider has a "special build" frame it is more likely to be a custom geometry frame rather than extra carbon or extra lightweight. Petacchi and Boonen are examples of this.

In the past pro riders have also repainted custom frames to match their sponsors bikes - Hampsten's "Huffy" was really a Landshark and for a while Cav's "Giant" was a repainted Cyfac.

The level of bikes ATM is so high that this seems to be getting rarer though.

 

[Notso Swift]

The other thing is that sponsors are less likely to tolerate it as the bikes can't just be hidden beneath a different paint job and the press invariably point it out (when they may not have before)
There is no confusing a molded monocoque with a tube to tube or lugged (inc carbon) frame of the past
I seem to remember Pozzato riding a "Custom Focus" at Katusha a couple of years back

 

[r_mutt]

The other thing is that sponsors are less likely to tolerate it as the bikes can't just be hidden beneath a different paint job and the press invariably point it out (when they may not have before)
There is no confusing a molded monocoque with a tube to tube or lugged (inc carbon) frame of the past
I seem to remember Pozzato riding a "Custom Focus" at Katusha a couple of years back

i wasn't implying that a rider would have another brand of bike underneath him, just that a manufacturer would make a "special" bike for certain riders - be it stiffer, or even different geometry to their stock models.

i do already know that riders in the steel frame days used to have their preferred builder make them a bike (that's pretty well known these days)- that was much easier to hide. i just thought that perhaps manufacturers in their quest for rider glory, would make something special for the star riders.

 

[DirtyWorks]

i just thought that perhaps manufacturers in their quest for rider glory, would make something special for the star riders.

Not in stamp-em-out carbon. A mold for a single bike would take a long time to make and at an *enormous* cost to the OEM.

If the rider is that dedicated to shaving grams, they'd just emulate their sponsor's product at a one-off carbon builder. Still, pretty work intensive compared to the days of joining metal.

 

[Boeing]

The only thing needed to make team bikes extra special is a new and different set of stickers. Carbon road frame sets are very likely plain production. http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/

Maybe something is more custom with TT or Spring classics (ex. Paris-Roubaix) equipment? It still comes down to the amount of power the rider puts out.

so essentially what you are saying is that all pros ride Giant

 

[Notso Swift]

Not in stamp-em-out carbon. A mold for a single bike would take a long time to make and at an *enormous* cost to the OEM.

If the rider is that dedicated to shaving grams, they'd just emulate their sponsor's product at a one-off carbon builder. Still, pretty work intensive compared to the days of joining metal.

What Dirty works says is true, maybe they could swap out T700 for T1200 or T70,000 - but that is about it

 

[r_mutt]

so the pros race the same bikes that we do?

if what you guys are saying is true, then the only manufacturers who might be able to do a special build would be the tube to tube builders- Colnago, Time, and Look- but even Look has now gone to a monocoque frame. theoretically, those manufacturers could do one-off geometries and perhaps stiffer frame sets for sprinters by using different tubing.

 

[richwagmn]

So if the pros all ride off the shelf frames and it's important that they fit properly on those frames (for max power output, comfort, whatever) and the fitters the pros use are able to fit the rider then the reason for an amateur rider to have a custom made frame is what?

 

[elapid]

So if the pros all ride off the shelf frames and it's important that they fit properly on those frames (for max power output, comfort, whatever) and the fitters the pros use are able to fit the rider then the reason for an amateur rider to have a custom made frame is what?

I can see the need for a custom frame for an oddly proportioned rider. I was told that a custom frame will provide a better fit than trying to fit a standard frame by the addition of certain sized and angled stems, etc. In regards to us amateurs, do we actually have any reason to ride the bikes the pros are riding anyway? Most of us are not putting the kms, riding the mountain passes, or generating the same kind of power output that the pros are, so we probably don't need the stiffness or the lightness of pro bikes anyway. Yet we still line up for them like kids in a candy shop. That's why amateurs still buy custom bikes - not because they need them, but because they can.

 

[DirtyWorks]

so the pros race the same bikes that we do?

if what you guys are saying is true, then the only manufacturers who might be able to do a special build would be the tube to tube builders- Colnago, Time, and Look- but even Look has now gone to a monocoque frame. theoretically, those manufacturers could do one-off geometries and perhaps stiffer frame sets for sprinters by using different tubing.

Keep in mind, the monocoques are popped out of very precise molds quick, so a little extra lay-up here and there is a really big deal. You can add extra layers before finishing, but that kills productivity.

Giant isn't the only game in town. They've got some real competitors you've probably never seen except with Felt stickers to name one flipper.

The carbon lug-tube build is not dead. There's a couple of guys doing one-off carbon in the world, so there's options if it's really got to happen. But, does it? Not likely.

Customs aren't entirely superfluous. Cookie-cutter specs just don't work out for many. Look at those ridiculous "women's" models that are the same OEM'd frames with super-short stems. Many women need a much different bike frame specification than what's commonly available. Lots of niches yet to be filled if cycling is going to be popular in the U.S.

 

[BroDeal]

So if the pros all ride off the shelf frames and it's important that they fit properly on those frames (for max power output, comfort, whatever) and the fitters the pros use are able to fit the rider then the reason for an amateur rider to have a custom made frame is what?

Take a look at some of the crappy fits that the pros are forced to use, especially those poor bastards who are forced to use Cervelos..

 

[Night Rider]

In the past pro riders have also repainted custom frames to match their sponsors bikes - Hampsten's "Huffy" was really a Landshark and for a while Cav's "Giant" was a repainted Cyfac.

The Huffy one was true, Dolan also used to do a replica of another teams frame back in the day (forget which it was), but the Cav one was proven twice that I know of as a hoax, once it was saying the Giant was a Cyfac and the second time same rumuor for either the Scott or Specialized. I think the only one close to being proved as a recently as another manufacturers frame was the Merckx.

 

[Boeing]

Take a look at some of the crappy fits that the pros are forced to use, especially those poor bastards who are forced to use Cervelos..

amen to cervelo

 

[42x16ss]

The Huffy one was true, Dolan also used to do a replica of another teams frame back in the day (forget which it was), but the Cav one was proven twice that I know of as a hoax, once it was saying the Giant was a Cyfac and the second time same rumuor for either the Scott or Specialized. I think the only one close to being proved as a recently as another manufacturers frame was the Merckx.

Interesting to hear that about Cavs bike. I heard that he was using a repainted Cyfac back in 07-08 before Giant overhauled their entire line, beefing up headtubes, BB's and changing tube profiles.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a rumour, but the standard of Giant's bikes has risen considerably since then so I thought it could be plausible.