Pro Tour Team Budgets - How High is High?

Polish

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There should have been NO SUPRISE here in the Clinic when it was "revealed" that USPS was spending $6-8mil per year on the USPS Team. That is right in the ballpark of what many experts were guessing here in previous posts....

But how does $6-8mil per year compare to other Teams?

Does anyone want to venture a guess for Sky or Leopard?
What was T-Mobile spending or Banesto or SaxoSunGuard or Astana?


Does anyone have an idea of the budget range from a low budget Pro Tour Team to a High Budget one?
 
A

Anonymous

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shouldawouldacoulda said:
Low: 8-10M Euro
High: 20M Euro

Why did you post this in the Clinic?

Because Polish is hoping this circles back to him being able to defend Wonderboy as he is confident (given the recent revelation) this thread will degenerate to yet another conversation about the object of his affection.

Oh, I forgot the lol.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Anything from 10m euros upwards is a big budget.

There are a lot of numbers thrown around about Leopard, Sky, Katusha, Geox etc. But I'd take them all with a pinch of salt. It's usually media hype.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Polish said:
There should have been NO SUPRISE here in the Clinic when it was "revealed" that USPS was spending $6-8mil per year on the USPS Team.
And exactly who was surprised? Citation please.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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laziali said:
There's a freaking long thread in the Clinic with scans of the FOI docs etc. :)
No, I want to know who here in the forum was surprised, as the Polisher would have you think.

It's rhetorical because no one was surprised. That long thread has zero to do with anyone's surprise. The posters here are reasonably sophisticated, and Pro Tour team budgets are pretty well known throughout the sport.

The thread has to do with HOW the funds were utilized, and the USPS's own internal audit stating that the USPS wasn't enjoying the anticipated benefit from the sponsorship. That doesn't work for the Polisher (or Lance as several conflicting articles have now appeared and are referenced in that thread), so he creates a straw man thread about something that he CAN twist into more hero worship
 
Mar 13, 2009
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back in 1999 div 2 teams were still at the Tour, most would have been around 3 million or less. The USPS number would have been pretty standard 11 years ago folks.
 

Polish

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MacRoadie said:
And exactly who was surprised? Citation please.
Like I said in the OP, there should have been NO SUPRISE here in the Clinic when it was "revealed" that USPS was spending $6-8mil per year on the USPS Team. That is right in the ballpark of what many experts were guessing here in previous posts...."

There WAS no suprise here in the Clinic. We know $32mil spent over 4 years is no big deal. No citation is needed.

But are you suggesting USPS spent more on doping than the teams they were competing with? If so, citation please.

(USPS DID spend more on wind tunnel tests and state of the art clothes and leading edge (at the time) grouppos and other equipment - that is well documented. Shimano designed the then new Dura Ace shifter to fit Lance's fist btw)
 
Aug 4, 2009
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E15million wont but much that is the main sponsor then they have all the add ons
bikes clothing food drinks transport just to name a few.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
Anything from 10m euros upwards is a big budget.

There are a lot of numbers thrown around about Leopard, Sky, Katusha, Geox etc. But I'd take them all with a pinch of salt. It's usually media hype.
no it's not. it's often more then said in media because teams like to lower their "official" budgets for taxes and other things... sponsors can jump by eveyr now and then for some extra cash especially in non anglo teams. you really think liquigas has been racing on 8 million euros a year budget??
 
Jul 18, 2010
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Polish said:
(USPS DID spend more on wind tunnel tests and state of the art clothes and leading edge (at the time) grouppos and other equipment - that is well documented. Shimano designed the then new Dura Ace shifter to fit Lance's fist btw)
How is this well documented if you don't have the same info from the other top teams? This is just another myth just like the recent insistence by Armstrong that he and Bruyneel revolutionized the sport. What a bunch of bull! They copied Banesto's blueprint for Indurain's successful 5 Tour wins and ran with it, claiming it as their own grand idea.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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what do you mean?? indurain always did 2 gt's every year, lance never did, was much different approach and with only 1 peak in lance's case
 

Dr. Maserati

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Polish said:
Like I said in the OP, there should have been NO SUPRISE here in the Clinic when it was "revealed" that USPS was spending $6-8mil per year on the USPS Team. That is right in the ballpark of what many experts were guessing here in previous posts...."

There WAS no suprise here in the Clinic. We know $32mil spent over 4 years is no big deal. No citation is needed.

But are you suggesting USPS spent more on doping than the teams they were competing with? If so, citation please.

(USPS DID spend more on wind tunnel tests and state of the art clothes and leading edge (at the time) grouppos and other equipment - that is well documented. Shimano designed the then new Dura Ace shifter to fit Lance's fist btw)
What is no suprise to anyone in The Clinic or anywhere else on this forum is how you missed this major detail from the ESPN article:
The U.S Postal Service spent $31.9 million to underwrite Lance Armstrong's pro cycling team during its glory years of 2001 to 2004, approximately 60 to 65 percent of the team's total budget, according to documents newly obtained from the agency under the federal Freedom of Information Act.
Sorry, but you failed in your own fail thread.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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From the 2000 TDF

Some history information from the 2000TDF. This can be used for lack of other information i have currantly , but its a guess with inflation and the last 10years of increased salaries and fuel prices what a tour budget will work out to .
So from Velo news tour Guide 2000 :
Mapei-quick step 7 million
Festina 2.85million
Ag2R Prevoyance 3.5 million
Lotto-Adecco 3 million
Saeco-valli and valli 3.7 million
Credit Agricole 4.3 million ,( Credit Agricole is also a HUGE HUGE sponsor for single handed yacht racing for very successful french sailing teams .)
Once-Deutsche Bank 5.7million
team DeutscheTelekom 4.5 million
La Fancaise Des Jeux 3 million
Cofidis 5 milliion
Banesto 5 million
Rabobank 3.5 million
Team Farm Frites 2.8 million
Mercatone uno-Albacom 3 million
US Postal Service 5 million
Vini Caldirola-Sidermec 3 million
Team Polti 3 million
Bonjour-Toupargel 3.3 million
Kelme-costa Blanca 3.6 million
Memorycard -Jack &jones 2.2 million

Any one can kindof do the math from 10 years ago to what it will end up being today ... prices sure havent gone down . :cool:
 

Polish

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Dr. Maserati said:
Sorry, but you failed in your own fail thread.
Read a bit more carefully, good dr.
I wrote $6-8mil/year was the USPS Sponsorship - not total sponsorship.
Total sponsorship was an average to low $10-13mil/year?

And $10-13mil per year would be considered "small beer" - according to Nigel Currie, director of Guilford, England-based sports marketing agency BrandRapport:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-05/murdoch-s-money-for-british-cycling-squad-provokes-envy-at-tour-de-france.html
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Dr. Maserati

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Polish said:
Read a bit more carefully, good dr.
I wrote $6-8mil/year was the USPS Sponsorship - not total sponsorship.
Total sponsorship was an average to low $10-13mil/year
?

And $10-13mil per year would be considered "small beer" - according to Nigel Currie, director of Guilford, England-based sports marketing agency BrandRapport:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-05/murdoch-s-money-for-british-cycling-squad-provokes-envy-at-tour-de-france.html
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Here you go:

Polish said:
There should have been NO SUPRISE here in the Clinic when it was "revealed" that USPS was spending $6-8mil per year on the USPS Team. That is right in the ballpark of what many experts were guessing here in previous posts....

But how does $6-8mil per year compare to other Teams?

Does anyone want to venture a guess for Sky or Leopard?
What was T-Mobile spending or Banesto or SaxoSunGuard or Astana?


Does anyone have an idea of the budget range from a low budget Pro Tour Team to a High Budget one?
No mention of $10 - $13 million, just $6 to $8 million per year.
 

Polish

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La Pandera said:
How is this well documented if you don't have the same info from the other top teams? This is just another myth just like the recent insistence by Armstrong that he and Bruyneel revolutionized the sport. What a bunch of bull! They copied Banesto's blueprint for Indurain's successful 5 Tour wins and ran with it, claiming it as their own grand idea.
Campagnolo added the alternate derailleur cable routing choice on their shifter bodies due to the request of Big Mig. And Shimano changed the shape of their hoods with inputs from Lance.

Patrons have that kind of pull...
 

Polish

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Dr. Maserati said:
Here you go:



No mention of $10 - $13 million, just $6 to $8 million per year.
Yes, no mention of 10-13 mil.

Only a mention of what USPS was spending.
The relatively low 6-8mil.
60-65% of the total budget.

Again, how does that compare to Sky or Leopard or T-Mobile or Banesto or SaxoSunGuard or Astana? Is 60-65% too high?

Do you think USPS paid too much?
Too little? Just right?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well as a guide (from the 2006 tour guide - prior to that are in a box somewhere in the loft)

t-mobile - 15m euro
Rabobank - 10m euro
quickstep - 9.3m euro
Disco - 8.4m euro
Liberty Seguros - 8m euro
Phonak - 8m euro
cofidis - 7.5m euro
below that most teams running in the 4-6m euro range.

lowest. Agritubel 3.5m euro

t-mobile were spending more in 2006, than a large proportion of teams are spending now.

Whats worth remembering, is Postals sponsorship money was pretty much for one race a year, whereas other teams were racing all season.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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compensation ?

Some of you are talking budget per year , some figures are for the tour budget only . Are we all talking about the same thing here ?
More importantly is it really the tour budget that is interesting or should it be that the real interesting subject is , How much do the actual riders earn for popping their eyes out going up Tourmalat.
IN perspective , given the earnings of a top pro cyclist , compare that to a top pro golfer . Then this might answer questions to other threads that wonder why cycling is never as popular in North America , yet golfing is .
Has anyone ever seen Tiger Woods mansion and his mega yacht . No cyclist i know has ever ascertained that . ( i could be wrong ) what is 8 million for a tour budget , or per year even worse. How much do the riders get , how much does the domestique make? More comparisons , pro hockey , football , baseball , basketball ? Put it all into perspective .
WE really want to know is it worth crashing your body on the cobbles for no money ? yes , no ?
:cool:
 
Feb 25, 2010
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TeamSkyFans said:
Well as a guide (from the 2006 tour guide - prior to that are in a box somewhere in the loft)

t-mobile - 15m euro
Rabobank - 10m euro
quickstep - 9.3m euro
Disco - 8.4m euro
Liberty Seguros - 8m euro
Phonak - 8m euro
cofidis - 7.5m euro
below that most teams running in the 4-6m euro range.

lowest. Agritubel 3.5m euro

t-mobile were spending more in 2006, than a large proportion of teams are spending now.

Whats worth remembering, is Postals sponsorship money was pretty much for one race a year, whereas other teams were racing all season.
If PCM 4 was correct T-Mobile's budget has risen with 6 million dollars in 2 years :eek:
 
Mar 31, 2010
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katyusha have 30 million budget a year. astana has near limitless budget, like phonak back in the day

lampre isd now has 11 million a year, same for liquigas, rabo has 12.5 million, htc has 15 million, leopard trek have 20 million a year, geox-tmc have 15 million a year. garmin cervelo have over 20 million a year, same for radioshack.

poorest pro tour team is euskaltel with 6.5 million a year. lotto and quickstep are now both around 10 million a year. vacansoleil also around 10 million. ag2r has 8 million a year.

btw many of the french teams have pretty high budgets despite not too great riders but overpaid french riders. moncoutie gets paid 1.5 a year by cofidis....
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
katyusha have 30 million budget a year. astana has near limitless budget, like phonak back in the day

lampre isd now has 11 million a year, same for liquigas, rabo has 12.5 million, htc has 15 million, leopard trek have 20 million a year, geox-tmc have 15 million a year. garmin cervelo have over 20 million a year, same for radioshack.

poorest pro tour team is euskaltel with 6.5 million a year. lotto and quickstep are now both around 10 million a year. vacansoleil also around 10 million. ag2r has 8 million a year.

btw many of the french teams have pretty high budgets despite not too great riders but overpaid french riders. moncoutie gets paid 1.5 a year by cofidis....
I don't believe that Katusha figure for a second. If they had that sort of money they would have Contador, Cavendish and Cancellara on their team, not Rodriguez, Paolini and Pozzato.

Are the other figures in dollars of Euros? If it's Euros, then I'm not buying them. If it's dollars, as I suspect, then maybe there's one team with 20m and two or three more with 15m, but that's it.

The rest is just typical media over-exaggeration.
 

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