Quick (5 minute) accident questionnnaire - apologies if posted in wrong forum

[hiero2]

Sorry to say, that while I ride on public roads 10+ times per week (regularly commuting 17 miles each way), I won't be completing your survey. . . .

You are assuming that the survey has an agenda. I just went and checked the questions, and, while it does have a question or two about clothing, and one or two about wearing glasses and sunglasses, I don't see that it is biased. The questionnaire is well-formed, with valid questions. While a couple of the questions seem odd, it is perfectly reasonable to see if some relationship between these factors exists. Having said that, I agree with your other conclusion - about the general cause of cyclist/auto accidents.

Yes, and that is the root of the problem.

Every message from "the authorities" is that cyclists should just feck off and die, . . .

Concur. I got a ticket from a state policeman one time with this sort of attitude - fought it and won.

Over my riding time I've concluded its a two way street. Give cars the same respect and they do the same. Sure there are the few that no matter what will still either attempt to intimidate you or flat out never see you for any number of reasons. . . .

I make a point to always wave hello to any driver who is getting a bit too agro, its muddles their expected response of an F-U or middle finger salute, I reserve the F-U to only be heard by me so as to not give them the satisfaction. There are those cars that pass you then move into the bike lane or shoulder area as to grab your attention for some unknown reason . . .

Then there are the true accidents where the driver does the wrong thing for any reason. You can't really change those cases other than attempting to always be as much aware of whats going on around you.

THE WAVE! I LOVE The Wave! Successfully calms me, and defuses the communication with the auto. Also works very well for hecklers. Their "reward" is thwarted, and the heckling becomes less successful, and thus less desirable. I have responded with anger and physical actions in traffic in my life, and I have also discovered that can lead to escalation. It also rarely (maybe never) seemed to function as a learning aid for the doofus on the other side of the argument.

I do NOT agree with "respect them and they will respect you". While this is certainly true for a vast majority of autos and drivers, they aren't the ones causing the problems, generally, are they!? Drivers causing problems generally dismiss the cyclist from their mental catalogue of things they need to pay attention to. Their eyes might SEE the cyclist, but they don't register mentally. Motorcycles have some of the same disadvantage. I've only been hit by a car once in all my years of cycling - about 40 years ago. Lady made a left turn into my path. Oddly, the same thing happened to me on a motorcycle just a few years later - with much more drastic consequences (the speeds were higher, relative vehicle weights greater, all that).

I probably shouldn't be writing this: don't want to jinx myself you know.

Ok, so I've competed both in the US and Europe based in Italy. I've been hit three times by cars in the 22 years I've ridden, all three in the US, not Italy. Can you believe that! What with the way Italian cyclists take up the road on group training rides and the Italian driving habits. Whereas in the more I would say contrived and safety obsessed American society, where group rides rigorously abide by the double pace line "rule" . . .

In Italy, as I've mentioned no groups follow any riding saftey rules. To the contrary, at times, like a band of mad and raving anarchists, the Italians just take up the road till they decide, after much honking from the trafic behind and swearing on the part of both drivers and cyclists, when the riders are good and damn ready, do they try to assume a more rank and file at the roads edge so the cars can pass.
. . .

Emphasis added by me.
Back when I first started getting involved with cycling clubs, I was introduced to Forrester and "Effective Cycling". At first, reading him, he seemed like a curmudgeonly, one-sided fanatic. Yet, I ended up having reason to do research on trafficway design and accident statistics. I am sure something has been added to the literature since I was active, but I ended up realizing that Forrester was spot-on with his analysis of traffic. A cyclist who acts like he belongs in traffic is actually riding more safely than one who rides way off to the right. And bikeways are generally NOT safer than riding in traffic. I think Forrester would have been proud of your Italians and how they behaved.

This is a great point. There are certainly cyclists who don't always obey the traffic laws, but what really bothers me is the widespread ignorance of the traffic laws concerning cyclists by motorists. There are too many motorists who consider cyclists to have "a lack of regard for the law" just for exercising their legal rights to the use of the road.

One of the biggest problems I have had is with verbal and physical harassment from groups of teenagers (both male and female) driving in their cars. This has often included unprovoked verbal harassment ("F*** you Lance", "F**got" etc), objects being thrown at me (tennis balls, half full two liter bottle of soda etc), a marine air horn being blown in my ear, and a truck passing literally within 6 inches of me with one of the teenagers leaning out the window and pretending to lunge at me as if he was going to push me off the road then slapping my helmet and laughing at me, just to mention a few recent incidents.

I'm not sure how to respond to these kinds of incidents. Getting angry and swearing accomplishes nothing and in fact spurs teenagers (and adults) on to more aggressive behavior, but sometimes it is difficult not to respond angrily when confronted with this kind of unprovoked harassment.

P.S. Getting a good laugh out of the fact the forum censored the verbal harassment . . .

I have one thing to say: The Wave. Not appropriate 100%, but mostly!

Here is good example recorded.
Driver harasses cyclists as cameras roll

Your link doesn't work. Video "no longer available"

 

[cineteq]

Your link doesn't work. Video "no longer available"

Found it on YT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwnAbcmWrCA

 

[RedheadDane]

There is nothing like reading threads like this to make me appreciate how lucky I am.
I'm not saying everything is heaven around here, but compared to what you guys are subjected to... it actually is.

Sorry, won't be able to do the survey as I actually haven't had any noticable accidents in recent years.

 

[Pulpstar]

Don't have a bike, but my running group is switching to pavement running for winter soon and we are all advised to wear fluorescent yellow kit or bibs. Alot of terrible drivers about

 

[LongSprint]

I make a point to always wave hello to any driver who is getting a bit too agro, its muddles their expected response of an F-U or middle finger salute, I reserve the F-U to only be heard by me so as to not give them the satisfaction.

I've changed my attitude recently and so far it's worked well. I used to abuse drivers who did the wrong thing but all that did was escalate into more abuse directed from both sides.

Recently a driver passed me way too close so at the next lights I tapped on his window. He rolled it down and I greeting him and then asked politely if he could leave more room for cyclists when passing them. He said ok, sorry about that. I think that achieved far more than abuse or a finger and I felt better for it.

 

[LongSprint]

I'm not sure how to respond to these kinds of incidents. Getting angry and swearing accomplishes nothing and in fact spurs teenagers (and adults) on to more aggressive behavior, but sometimes it is difficult not to respond angrily when confronted with this kind of unprovoked harassment.

Man, you have it tough where you live.

Get a helmet cam to record any such behavior, preferably with identifying information like a license plate.

Take it to the cops and demand they do something about it - dangerous driving, assault, whatever. Make it clear that you're willing to go to court as a witness.

If you don't get any action escalate through your local government, riders association, etc.

 

[RedheadDane]

Don't have a bike, but my running group is switching to pavement running for winter soon and we are all advised to wear fluorescent yellow kit or bibs. Alot of terrible drivers about

What are you even doing here? YOU MUST BE SOME SORT OF SPY!

 

[Pulpstar]

Prefer to watch cycling road races to running as it is more tactically interesting ! Also considering getting a bike but road users and a man getting robbed at knife point for his bike near my house puts me off a bit (