Responses to the proposed thread on transgender cyclists

[Armchair Cyclist]

A new poster has opened a thread on transgender cyclists. A previous thread on the matter was closed with this message

Mod hat on:


We've decided that this thread has run it's course. The discussions are getting circular and they are moving very close to being outright phobia, if they haven't got there already. If you wish to continue these types of discussions it'll have to be somewhere other than these forums.

Cheers,

KB.

I have locked the new thread, pending a response from Future publishing's representative.

If there are opinions you would like to have forwarded to them about whether the thread should be opened, or approval/disapproval of the pre-emptive (and possibly temporary) locking of it, comment here, and I shall refer the admins to this discussion.

This is not to be used as a thread for discussing the issue of transgender cyclists, only for whether a thread is desirable. Expect a warning (and therefore points which, depending on accumulation of points, may trigger a suspension) for political discussion if this is ignored.

 

[Unchained]

This thread is a bottomless rabbit hole..as with most discussions around the issue you need definitions, which leads to heated arguing. Does transgender mean sexual reassignment surgery, Is it a uniform or hormone level? Who decides? Should not be open because it's too volatile and someone will get feelings hurt,banned, or both, or worse. And there is enough jabbing, barbed bitterness just on women's and men's cycling, adding something that is in the middle, arbitrary is problematic.

 

[fbjim]

The thread should not be opened. It will provide nothing but toxic discussion that nobody will end up agreeing on.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Does it concern pro cycling? If it does, the topic should be open for discussion, shouldn't it? People don't want to deal with it because for the moment it might not seem very relevant (no transgender has been pummeling the opposition yet in pro cycling) and the toxic drama doesn't seem worth it. But maybe it's not the best idea to wait until that does happen, and get a head start.

But why not simply stick this in the clinic? Because, as far as sports go, testosterone, hormones and unfair advantage, is a clinic thing. And with all the toxic BS going down there, it would fit right in.

 

[Red Rick]

Just delete IMO. The channel even looked like a political channel, not a cycling channel, and as far as I'm concerned it violated spam rules as well as GRAPES.

To me there is 0 upside to keeping the thread open and a lot of downside to have it in here.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

But why not simply stick this in the clinic? Because, as far as sports go, testosterone, hormones and unfair advantage, is a clinic thing. And with all the toxic BS going down there, it would fit right in.

If the moderation standard is that discussion on transgender cyclists belongs in the clinic, then that inherently means that the moderation position is that gender-affirming surgery is a form of cheating. That's not a road we should want to go down.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If the moderation standard is that discussion on transgender cyclists belongs in the clinic, then that inherently means that the moderation position is that gender-affirming surgery is a form of cheating. That's not a road we should want to go down.

That's not what that inherently means at al. But it is surgery never the less, which usually takes place in a... . And it involves taking hormones, managing testosteron levels... If you specifically wanted to discuss for instance the usage of ketones and whether they should be allowed, i would also suggest that be a topic for the clinic.

But you probably got triggered, i understand. The bigger point in my post however, is that there should be a place on the forum to discuss it. Regardless of the intentions of the topic starter in this case. It may not be a hot topic now, since it doesn't yet affect the current hierarchy in pro cycling. But it might be a good idea to get ahead of the subject so that moderation can get a handle on the subject before something does indeed happen and the floodgates open.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

That's not what that inherently means at al.

Kindly point me to a thread, any thread in the clinic that does not discuss forms of cheating.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It is a thread topic I would never bother with, and I would just ignore it.

But @Armchair Cyclist you seem to think this a very important topic since you call attention to the subject by having a thread about a thread, and call even more attention to it by sending off to the publisher for advice. Where's a Guardian columnist when you need one?

I, Potomac, have appointed myself your life coach. Can you really live with yourself if you were to stop a thread on a topic that you find so compelling?

I'm seeking to see if there is a consensus: if we are to have a discussion suppressed, or if we are to open a potentially disruptive debate, I want that to be a community decision.

 

[hrotha]

But you probably got triggered, i understand.

You think you can have a civil discussion on this topic when you already whipped out the ol' "triggered" BS in the discussion about having the discussion

 

[AmRacer]

I'm seeking to see if there is a consensus: if we are to have a discussion suppressed, or if we are to open a potentially disruptive debate, I want that to be a community decision.

What's trolling?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Kindly point me to a thread, any thread in the clinic that does not discuss forms of cheating.

Kindly point me to the forum rules that suggest the clinic is exclusively reserved for doping and/or cheating so that no other discussion can be had.

You think you can have a civil discussion on this topic when you already whipped out the ol' "triggered" BS in the discussion about having the discussion

The reason i said that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Netserk]

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

 

[E_F_]

Oh. You just pointed to it, didn't you?

 

[Unchained]

I would tend to agree with you if parameters were clearly delineated, there is only one thing that is clear, that nothing is clear.
For people outside the US any discussion can start with theory, or philosophy perspective,
but in the US, much of the discussion is based in law. In many states, participating in sports as a person who identifies, or is identified as transgender is against the law. That has nothing to do with decorum, respect or sensitivity, just legal and illegal behavior.
So a cycling specific discussion is further compartmentalized by first establishing if it's legal in that state. It's not a rabbit hole, it's millions of them, possible small town ordnance that forbids someone from doing a criterium or road race, a night at the velodrome.
This is just one thing, but Google search about laws in sports about the subject are plentiful and many of them excellent and very detailed. ESPN is more of a good overview. Also you see the publishing date, likely more laws on who can and can't partake in sports likely post January 20th..

Transgender athletes and the laws that govern participation

A growing number of states and sports governing bodies are passing legislation that restricts transgender athletes' ability to participate in sports. What does science say, and how is legislation affecting athletes?

www.espn.com

 

[Netserk]

Was @red_flanders's post deleted because it discussed mod action?

 

[red_flanders]

Was @red_flanders's post deleted because it discussed mod action?

I assumed so. Fair enough, it's a rule. Seemed pertinent to the discussion but I get it.

 

[SHaines]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to share your perspectives with us. Currently, with only one volunteer moderator, we simply don't have the resources needed to ensure these discussions remain respectful and focused.

As with any decision, we may revisit this in the future if circumstances change. For now, however, this forum isn't the most suitable place for this particular discussion. We appreciate your understanding.