Rider Safety - The Solutions?

[pedaling squares]

Big deal,

I maintain this deserves a crminal inquiry.

The above poster who rode/drove in the tour agrees with my point that too much time in the cafe may have been involved.

Breathalyze
Take into custody
Investigate

Why is no one asking about this?!?!

Well hopefully they would switch those around a little: start by investigating, use a breathalyzer if there are grounds to do so, take into custody if the investigation leads them there.

But really, someone who once drove in the tour agrees that alcohol may have been involved..... is that it, or is there an actual allegation that this is the case in this incident?

 

[Ruby60]

I am quite surprized that there haven't been more caravan related incidents. Have you noticed the drivers of the team cars? The race bible held in one hand along with the steering wheel, and the other hand using the hand held radio to talk to his rider. Mean while, the individual in the passenger side seat is sittng there doing.....nothing!
Seems to me that the driver of the car has enough distractions just driving the car...

Oh...and who was it that said the DS's aren't using the radios for tactical reasons?

So, have the drivers of the team car be drivers only, get rid of race radios, and get rid of full carbon wheels.

 

[Anonymous]

I am quite surprized that there haven't been more caravan related incidents. Have you noticed the drivers of the team cars? The race bible held in one hand along with the steering wheel, and the other hand using the hand held radio to talk to his rider. Mean while, the individual in the passenger side seat is sittng there doing.....nothing!
Seems to me that the driver of the car has enough distractions just driving the car...

Oh...and who was it that said the DS's aren't using the radios for tactical reasons?

So, have the drivers of the team car be drivers only, get rid of race radios, and get rid of full carbon wheels.

I think DS's should be banned from driving team cars to be honest. Theres no way they can concentrate on the road while talking on the radio and looking at the roadbook.

 

[brollebol]

I've read quite a few people commenting on the effects of high rims. That it makes the bike harder to maneuver. Myself being a total layman at actual bike-racing, could anyone explain how this works exactly? How does the height of the rim affect the characteristics of the bike?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

3) Review helmets' performance: As a former rider and now an engineer, I do not believe those guys saying that crashing at 50 kmh with a helmet is like crashing at 40 without a helmet. There is a lot of improvement we could do to helmets eve if that means making them heavier and less aerodynamic by adding more material all around the right spots. All these ideas should not be simply neglected by the "helmets don't really save lives at those speeds" argument; designers should be forced to start working on safer equipment. I think it is unacceptable to believe that with today's technological capabilities, Weylandt or Casartelli's lives could not have been saved with a more protective helmet.

You are the engineer. Calculate it.

Helmets are tested with a weight inside dropped from two meters. Final velocity of an object dropped from a height of 2 meters is 22.54 km/h. Kinetic energy increases with the square of the velocity, so the energy at 50 km/h is 4.92 times that at 22.5 km/h. Absorb ~1/5 of the energy at 50 km/h and calculating the velocity to get that kinetic energy yields 44.63 km/h.

Casartelli hit a concrete bollard and his spinal column was forced into his lower brain. He could have been wearing a motorcycle helmet and it would not have made a difference. We do not have the details on Weylandt's injuries, so speculation about whether a little better helmet would have made a difference is speculation without a shred of evidence.

Studies have shown that in countries that have imposed mandatory helmet use cycling death rates are unchanged. At least one study concluded that death rates had increased. This was suspected to be caused by risk compensation. Such studies have shown that there is significant reduction in cosmetic injuries. That alone is a good reason to wear a helmet. It is the same reason why we wear gloves.

No one here is saying that you should not wear a helmet. What needs to be recognized is that they are not very effective at ordinary cycling speeds. They should be viewed as something that might help but do not count on it. Do not take risks thinking that your helmet will protect you from harm.

I already posted what should be done to improve helmets. It is simple. Publish the test data. Give companies a reason to exceed the test standards. Instead of advertising that their new helmet weighs 200 grams, the companies could advertise that their new helmet is 20% more effective than the current offering by Giro.

 

[davestoller]

If this has been brought up before, ignore this post. But the latest news is that Vacansoleil will not pursue legal action. Could this possibly be caused by fear of not being invited to the TdF in the future? Seems like VCD is taking the accident (too) lightly.

Do they have no balls?

Either they have been intimidated by the TdF ...or promised entry for ten years...or money.

If I'm that rider, I am sueing.

Lost press coverage
Lost chance at featuring at final climb
Lost wages from injury....he has no idea how he'll recover
Prob lost KOM points
Etc etc etc

And of course pain and suffering itself
Punitive damages

 

[davestoller]

Team Sky consider legal options -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/11/tour-de-france-2011-team-sky?CMP=twt_gu

Hell yeah!!!!!

Stick it to 'em.
If you can trust their inquiry....

Police should have been involved immediately.
I say throw the book at them!

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Do they have no balls?

Either they have been intimidated by the TdF ...or promised entry for ten years...or money.

If I'm that rider, I am sueing.

Maybe they realize that an incident with race vehicles is one of the assumed risks of racing. What is next? Will you sue the rider ahead of you because he clipped a pedal in a turn and caused you to crash?

Maybe we could have a crowd of ambulance chasing shysters at the end of every stage offering their services to every rider involved in a crash.

 

[Steel4Ever]

Maybe they realize that an incident with race vehicles is one of the assumed risks of racing.

No it's not!

Perhaps the drivers of "race vehicles" should realize that being sued for IMPEDING the race, instead of FOLLOWING the race, is one of the assumed risks of being a race vehicle driver.

What is next? Will you sue the rider ahead of you because he clipped a pedal in a turn and caused you to crash?

Apples and oranges.
The other pedal-clipping rider is actually IN the race, he is part of the race, he is your opponent (or perhaps team-mate).

Maybe we could have a crowd of ambulance chasing shysters at the end of every stage offering their services to every rider involved in a crash.

Maybe if a rider did something on purpose to harm another rider (a la Marty McSorely), then legal action could be looked at.

Maybe if an idiot driver ever pulls a 'Barbed-wire Johnny' on YOU, you will think, "Ah! It's all just part of riding my bike!"

 

[Steel4Ever]

I've read quite a few people commenting on the effects of high rims. That it makes the bike harder to maneuver. Myself being a total layman at actual bike-racing, could anyone explain how this works exactly? How does the height of the rim affect the characteristics of the bike?

They work great in a head/tail wind re: better aerodynamics.
They are scary in a crosswind -- think bicycle turned sailboat.

At least that's my layman explanation.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Maybe if an idiot driver ever pulls a 'Barbed-wire Johnny' on YOU, you will think, "Ah! It's all just part of riding my bike!"

If I ever find myself racing with 195 other riders surrounded by team cars, official race vehicles, neutral support, photographers, and televison crews then I will recognize that there will be accidents, lapses of attention, and confused drivers. It is a known risk that is assumed by everyone racing. The incident was not the first one this Tour. It will not be the last.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If I ever find myself racing with 195 other riders surrounded by team cars, official race vehicles, neutral support, photographers, and televison crews then I will recognize that there will be accidents, lapses of attention, and confused drivers. It is a known risk that is assumed by everyone racing. The incident was not the first one this Tour. It will not be the last.

True but thus vehicle is effectively a non essential vehicle to the race - there is little need for it to be on the course unlike team, neutral support or TV.

I am not really in favour of suing the driver - I would rather they are hit with a criminal charge and the option of suing is only taken if they escape a conviction.

 

[Martin318is]

I think DS's should be banned from driving team cars to be honest. Theres no way they can concentrate on the road while talking on the radio and looking at the roadbook.

yep - it was interesting that JV was making jokes earlier in the week about his driving ability in the caravan. From memory he side swiped Sky and rear-ended someone else? (I dont think it was Saxo but I cannot find the tweet where he said who he hit).

Then a day or two later he posts a twitpic of the back of the Saxobank car that somebody else had clearly rammed hard from behind.

Then we see in car footage of the BMC car during the TTT and there is NO way that appropriate care was being taken with driving the vehicle: Encouraging riders, reviewing the route, doing math on average speeds and time gaps? yes. Steering the car and watching for spectators? No

There is no logical reason that the DS should be driving the car. Theoretically it is so they can come up on the right of the riders to talk to them - but they could just as easily sit in the rear left seat and have a TV etc in the headrest. The mechanic can put wheels etc in the front seat and still have their space to work on parts in the rear right seat.

For that matter, they could sit in the right seat - the cars are perfectly able to sit beside a rider while a mechanic leans out the left side to adjust things so they can do the same with a rider who is talking to the DS

 

[brianf7]

I have worked as a photographer for years and I beleive the only cars to pass should be team car or Commisair race director any one else should find a way around by bunny hopping from place to place useing side roads. It worked for me and I got all the good shots in best places. I ounce rode passenger backwards on a motor bike and wouldnt do it again. not worth the pain.

 

[rata de sentina]

I do not know if this has been posted here before but Gerard Vroomen must be prescient as he blogged on this topic back in May.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-b...le/cycling-vehicles-the-solution-part-1/2761/

 

[Kender]

The riders are feeling the effects of the media and tv coverage. The average spectator wants exciting racing.

in order to sell tv coverage, race directors are trying new ways to make racing interesting. Steep decents, narrow roads, cobbles, dirt roads, situatations which could have serious implecations for GC on non mountainous terrain (like crosswinds).

all this leads to nervousness, and crashes. There are always crashes especially in the first week, but there have been far more of the serious kind than normal. Big GT's need some wide open pan flat stages at the start to get some rythum into thr racing. this just hasn't happened at all this year

 

[Machu Picchu]

From BBC/El Pais:

Team Sky's Spanish rider Juan Antonio Flecha has expressed his disappointment that the driver who knocked him over during Sunday's ninth stage of the Tour de France has not apologised for the incident. "He hasn't come to say sorry and I think that if he were to come, I wouldn't even talk with him," Flecha told Spanish newspaper El Pais on Tuesday.

 

[Steel4Ever]

The incident [television car driving into riders] was not the first one this Tour. It will not be the last.

Yes on both points.

 

[Steel4Ever]

From BBC/El Pais:

Team Sky's Spanish rider Juan Antonio Flecha has expressed his disappointment that the driver who knocked him over during Sunday's ninth stage of the Tour de France has not apologised for the incident. "He hasn't come to say sorry and I think that if he were to come, I wouldn't even talk with him," Flecha told Spanish newspaper El Pais on Tuesday.

Perhaps Rupert should buy up the French tv station, then shut it down.

 

[Papparrazzi]

True but thus vehicle is effectively a non essential vehicle to the race - there is little need for it to be on the course unlike team, neutral support or TV.

I am not really in favour of suing the driver - I would rather they are hit with a criminal charge and the option of suing is only taken if they escape a conviction.

I read it was something to do with the TV signal for the team cars ... therefore 'essential' to the convoy but ........ that guy should never drive on a bike race again .... unbelievable!

 

[Bala Verde]

yesterday Henk Lubberding, former pro, said that part of the the chaos in the TdF can be attributed to riders not obeying the unwritten rules of the peloton. Most of these rules should have been learned in the formative years of cycling, as youngsters.

Some examples he picked included:

- cyclists who stop on the left side of the road to wait for a wheel change, whereas it should occur - always, no exception - on the right side (unless they are in Australia for example, but then they will emphasize before the race which side to use).
- cyclists riding on both sides of the guys who pass out the muzettes in the feeding zone. They should never ride behind their backs, ever.
- cyclists not bothering to take out the wheel for a wheel change.

He also mentioned that no one was held accountable for 'bad behaviour'. In the past, after or during the race, a cyclist who violated some of these unwritten rules would be held accountable by others, called out for their errors; they would have a chat. He fears this corrective, social control is currently absent.

Others recently remarked that Garmin chasing too hard in the descent where vino and vdb2 crashed.

Is part of it a leaderless peloton? The lack of respect for unwritten rules?

 

[rhubroma]

Haven't had time to read the whole thread, so perhaps this has already been said.

If you have such a restricted GC after you arrive in the Massif Central, and a guy like Thor (who earns straight A's on his report card for how he has ridden, so nothing against him) still in yellow, then the race isn't selective enough. There should have been a time trial or a mountain top finish by stage 7-8 at the latest.

The first week of the Tour is always crazy, even more so when you have 50 guys who can go for yellow. This causes too many wanting to be at the front and, at that point, the falls become inevitable.

As far as the reckless driver goes, word has it thay he was a big fish in French TV. But if you can't drive then you shouldn't be following the fvcking race behind the wheel. Those guys should be required to pass a test.

 

[Finn84]

From a chart I have to remind that 1998 Festina was already kicked out wasn't it? That of course takes nine riders already (or less if there was rider(s) out before). 2003 was another peak and that year had hard mountain stages earlier than usual. Alpe d'Huez was stage 8 (or 9 if you would like to count prologue as a stage just to equalize standings between years having prologue, longer TT (05, 09) or mass start stage (08, 11)).

 

[Bala Verde]

Innr ring posted these stats:

2002: 189 starters, 5 withdrawals due to crashes, 2.65% attrition
2003: 198 starters, 6 withdrawals due to crashes, 3.03% attrition
2004: 188 starters, 10 withdrawals due to crashes, 5.32% attrition
2005: 189 starters, 8 withdrawals due to crashes, 4.23% attrition
2006: 176 starters, 4 withdrawals due to crashes, 2.27% attrition
2007: 189 starters, 9 withdrawals due to crashes, 4.76% attrition
2008: 180 starters, 4 withdrawals due to crashes, 2.22% attrition
2009: 180 starters, 5 withdrawals due to crashes, 2.78% attrition
2010: 197 starters, 9 withdrawals due to crashes, 4.57% attrition
2011: 198 starters, 16 withdrawals due to crashes, 8.08% attrition

source

 

[Anonymous]

source

although inrrng took them from this source