Rider Safety - The Solutions?

[Eric8-A]

I always thought it was because they didn't take enough calcium in their system.

 

[Ragerod]

I would argue that both Horner's and Boonen's crashes show the effectiveness of these helmets. They escaped with quite light injuries thankfully.

Cycling helmets are designed to absorb the energy from an impact, which lessen how much the brain moves within the skull - it does that job well.
There was a suggestion of 'full face' helmets earlier - which could block out sound, an essential sense in a large bunch.

I would argue that Weylandt's crash demonstrated the short comings of these helmets. Any helmet with extended sides would have to consider issues with sound and visibility but are not difficult to overcome with a good design.

 

[bhilden]

I posted early in this thread and then went on a 6-hour bike ride. Here is a bit of follow up.

My guess as to what happened is that the French TV car left the start well before the race actually started. They stopped for lunch somewhere (very French!) and spent a bit too much time in the cafe hanging out. When they went to get back on the road, the break had passed, but not the peloton. In a very unwise move, they decided to try and pass the breakaway so they could get to the finish before the race. Clearly, they blew the pass.

They should not have been in that situation in the first place! But, it has been my experience in the caravan that French TV cars are the worst abusers.

BTW, last year on the stage to Revel, my video camerman and I (I was doing video interviews with riders and team personnel before and after each stage for VeloNews and their VeloCenter program) stopped on the side of the road to do an interview with the devil. We found a pullout, parked and were walking toward Dede when out of nowhere the publicity caravan comes into sight.

Aghast, we sprint back to the car and pulled out a split second in front of the publicity caravan. It was soooo close. You don't want to follow directly behind the publicity caravan in a car because all the spectators are out in the road picking up the goodies and it is a real possibility you might hit one.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I would argue that Weylandt's crash demonstrated the short comings of these helmets. Any helmet with extended sides would have to consider issues with sound and visibility but are not difficult to overcome with a good design.

If you want a motorcycle helmet then you know where to find one.

I would argue that both Horner's and Boonen's crashes show the effectiveness of these helmets. They escaped with quite light injuries thankfully.

Cycling helmets are designed to absorb the energy from an impact, which lessen how much the brain moves within the skull - it does that job well.

I would argue that laws of physics do not lie and they do not change when it comes to bicycle helmets. The amount of energy absorbed by a bicycle helmet is a very small fraction of the total energy in a crash at racing speeds.

50 km/h with a helmet = 45 km/hr without a helmet.

That does not get into the question of whether helmets work as intended in an actual crash. The solid weight that is used for testing concentrates force on a small area, resulting in the styrofoam being crushed and absorbing energy as it does so. But a human head is not rigid. It deforms on impact, spreading the force over a larger area than the test weight. The styrofoam does not crush as seen in testing. Hence you get reports that post crash examinations of helmets show little to no evidence of crushing.

If you want safer helmets then instead of testing helmets with a simple pass or fail, the certified testing would give a rating of how much a helmet exceeded the minimum standards. As it is now, helmet makers have a goal of making the lightest helmet with the largest holes that barely passes the testing.

 

[boomcie]

If you want a motorcycle helmet then you know where to find one.



I would argue that laws of physics do not lie and they do not change when it comes to bicycle helmets. The amount of energy absorbed by a bicycle helmet is a very small fraction of the total energy in a crash at racing speeds.

50 km/h with a helmet = 45 km/hr without a helmet.

Look, I don't study physics, but common sense teaches me that crashing at 50k/h without a helmet will crush your skull like an egg-shell.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Look, I don't study physics, but common sense teaches me that crashing at 50k/h without a helmet will crush your skull like an egg-shell.

Common sense taught man that the earth was flat. Science turned out to be a much better teacher.

 

[python]

excellent thread with good ideas.

rider safety is a very broad subject and could be easily grouped into several sub-themes.

to me, one of the biggest problems seems the endless and mindless race to make everything lighter and lighter...

vino said yesterday that astana went through a dozen of broken wheels in just one stage! that's ridiculous. rider safety means nothing if you can't rely on your own wheels, stem, seat post etc etc..more safety factors should be built into components.

as to the external safety factors like vehicle rules, driver training and skills, i agree with those who suggested that there should zero tolerance for rule violators.

the peloton lacking 'the boss', imo has nothing to do with safety.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

vino said yesterday that astana went through a dozen of broken wheels in just one stage! that's ridiculous. rider safety means nothing if you can't rely on your own wheels, stem, seat post etc etc..more safety factors should be built into components.

The scary thought is that pro team can replace this stuff at regular intervals. Other stuff will be used for a single season. Recreational riders buy it, neglect maintenance, and use it for years.

And the UCI intends to lower weight limits. That should work out well.

 

[L'arriviste]

... to me, one of the biggest problems seems the endless and mindless race to make everything lighter and lighter...

vino said yesterday that astana went through a dozen of broken wheels in just one stage! that's ridiculous. rider safety means nothing if you can't rely on your own wheels, stem, seat post etc etc..more safety factors should be built into components.

...

Very interesting point and in fact the first one on a list of probable causes of all the first week crashed discussed by RTBF (Belgian national FR broadcaster) after yesterday's stage.

Cédric Vasseur was saying that the "arms race" for lightness has completely neglected safety, even in the last few years since he was riding. He reckoned that the bikes were too brittle, overly sensitive to the usual forces and of poorer quality. He claimed that lightness and manufacturing economy had seemingly overtaken all other concerns.

RTBF then cut to Cofidis' chief mechanic who of course denied that equipment was a factor and blamed the prevalence of crashes almost entirely on nervous riders.

 

[boomcie]

Common sense taught man that the earth was flat. Science turned out to be a much better teacher.

Bad comparison. Do the watermelon test. Pretty sure the one with the helmet will be better off.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Like Europcar of the MJ wearer?

Like Saur SojaSun for instance.

Reduce the size of the peleton and the amount of cars/bikes etc.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

the problem here is the Helmet companies being in compliance to the UCI rules-whose standards are very poor the least-and this is a mayor issue already detected at least 10 years ago..

The helmet standards have nothing to do with the UCI - they must be compliant with the relevant national or regional Standards, in this case, CE.

Nothing has changed in helmet design to spark the rash of injuries, they are being reported more closely and more focus on the brain-injury aspect, such as concussion, etc.
Remember Marcel Wust from Festina - lost an eye, and nearly his life in a crash during a sprint finish. He was a champion for helmets, wearing one long before they become compulsory after Kivilev's death.

A helmet will reduce the risk of traumatic brain injury, PARTICULARLY from sharp objects or protrusions on the road, such as edge of potholes, gutters or road-edges and stones of significant size (1cm or larger).
A helmet will NOT save your life in all circumstances, but may reduce the risk of brain injury in a number of situations.

 

[will10]

I always thought it was because they didn't take enough calcium in their system.

Very hard training and racing can lower your body's testosterone production which is linked to bone density. It contributed to Chris Boardman's osteoporosis, amongst other riders.

 

[theoldbiker]

Reduce the size of the peleton and the amount of cars/bikes etc

managed safe separation distance of cars, motorbikes, and spectators is in my opinion the only answer.
there is no need for camera cars or photographers amongst the riders, the technology exists to fit small cameras to the riders bikes or helmets.
in my opinion a quad bike style machine fitted with a variable width memory foam snow plough attachment travel around 30 metres in front of riders gently moving the over excited spectators to one side, on the rear of the machine a camera could produce film of the head of the race.
if we continue to produce a TDF more like mario carts than a cycle race we will run out of riders before Paris is reached.
to lose so many top riders because of preventable accidents reduces this fantastic event to a farce.

 

[ILOVEMTB]

Less teams, less team members and less media cars and motos in the thick of the action.

 

[movingtarget]

It's bike racing. Change nothing. Apart from the two accidents caused by vehicles, it's the riders causing the accidents. O'Grady said as much in an interview yesterday and said that the accident Vino was involved in happened because the road was damp and the riders at the front were going much too fast for the conditions. The riders know what the weather conditions are going to be like and the route is known months before. Thankfully no cows, horses or dogs or photographers have been involved this year...........so far. There is always a good side.

 

[screaming fist]

not really.

its already been pulled to peices, the article is glaringly innacurate. the withdrawal rate in 1998 and 2007 was high due to doping withdrawals (festina and astana) and the withdrawal rate in 2003 was high because the race went to the alps in the first week and 15 riders failed to finish in the two alpine stages (including alpe dhuez)

all that article proves is withdrawals for pure crashes are higher this year than at any previous tour.

But the Astana withdrawal was only at the second rest day, Cofidis after stage 16 - his data only refers on the first week of racing.
I think you're right about the Festina year - it blew on the 6th day of racing IIRC

That said, the number of abandons is up to 18 now, which is clearly extraordinary.

 

[dsut4392]

difficult to execute since a rider can break away from either side of the road and the car can become an obstacle-but could be studied nonetheless-the simplest way I find is to knock the horn and let the riders know "in advance" that a vehicle is approaching and will pass through-that's all

That's all well and good, so long as the vehicles respect that fact that if there isn't a gap big enough to get through, they just have to wait. It's not up to the riders to give way whenever a car feels like coming though...

 

[Four Winds]

Do people think that the lack of time gaps has had an impact? Someone (a rider) raised the point midweek that with 198 potential yellow jersey wearers, the peleton hasn't established a natural pecking order and settled down. A prologue and longer TTT would have decreased the jostling for position. Dunno. Thoughts?

I agree. Traditionally you'd have expected a prologue (Cancellara would be in yellow) followed by a sprint fest for the first week (Cancellara would be in yellow and Cavendish in green) where no-one would have expected to make time and things would generally have been reasonably tranquil. No gaps plus the harder first week mean things can change every day and no-one can relax at any time. Everyone is trying to get on the front at all times! The crashes make things a viscious circle, cos now everyone definitely has to be on the front in case there's a crash!

The route has definitely been mixed up and while it has made for more "entertainment" has it come at a cost? The ASO seem to be trying to keep up with the Giro for spectacular stages to make the race unpredictable. I think the first week has been better for fans (if you take out the crashes) but obviously worse for the riders. Now they just have to come up with a variety of entertaining stages that are also safe. We don't ask for much

I also wonder if too much pressure is being put on riders by teams to continue. No doubt these guys are hard as nails and don't want to let the team down but riding with concussion after being passed fit, riding on with a punctured lung and ending up in Intensive Care etc seems like taking it a bit far? Perhaps more objective or independent medical staff?

 

[Highlander]

It is easy to blame crashes on course, crowds, etc but hard to ignore that modern GC riders race a fraction of past champions. More racing=better bike racer it is that simple. It is also hard to ignore that modern GC contenders are obsessed with w/kg (understandable). Non weight bearing exercise, sweating leaching calcium, plus calorie deficit leads to a perfect storm of bone fractures. Small crashes now result in multiple fractures

I totally agree with this point. I know that this can't explain everything, but I was wondering at the time if riders like Horner could have possibly avoided a crash if they logged more miles in with the peloton.

Of course, Cadel has done a very light race load up to this point and has been one of the few riders who has escaped serious problems, so maybe it won't make a major difference.

 

[davestoller]

The French television has apologized:
http://tour-de-france.sport.francetv.fr/cyclisme/88506-france-télévisions

Big deal,

I maintain this deserves a crminal inquiry.

The above poster who rode/drove in the tour agrees with my point that too much time in the cafe may have been involved.

Breathalyze
Take into custody
Investigate

Why is no one asking about this?!?!

 

[thirteen]

Big deal,

I maintain this deserves a crminal inquiry.

The above poster who rode/drove in the tour agrees with my point that too much time in the cafe may have been involved.

Breathalyze
Take into custody
Investigate

Why is no one asking about this?!?!

+1

do we even have a name?

who and why are they being protected?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I would argue that Weylandt's crash demonstrated the short comings of these helmets. Any helmet with extended sides would have to consider issues with sound and visibility but are not difficult to overcome with a good design.

The shortcomings of these helmets? No helmet exists that will prevent a fatal outcome.
Weylandts crash was a high speed impact where he fractured the base of his skull.

Boonen and Horner obviously landed on their heads, as they escaped serious or long-term injury it shows that the helmets did their job.
No doubt there should be a universal standard for cycling helmets - but the helmet you are seeking will not exist.

 

[Papparrazzi]

First proposal for the ASO.

Cars (including press cars, team cars etc) should ONLY Be allowed to pass on the right hand (drivers side) of riders.

Number of cars, motorbikes in the tour clearly needs to be reduced (they are already planning to reduce the number of motos)

For the UCI

Helmets need to be seriously looked at. We seem to be seeing an increase in head and facial injuries. Whats changed in helmet design?

So on the Continent, you mean left side? Which is the side the car passed on yesterday. I'm not sure of your point here ....

Yes I think they are reducing Press Motos from 20 to 12 next year.

 

[Papparrazzi]

Having covered the Tour de France for 20+ years and driven many, many miles in the race I can tell you that what happened today with the TV car knocking down the riders is not normal. Thank heavens.

There is a very strict order for cars in the peloton based on the color of your credential. The only cars allowed that close to the peloton are race officials, team cars,and service.

Unfortuately, Antenne 2/3 because they are the official TV broadcaster of the Tour have a bit of leeway where they can be, but the Antenne 2/3 car which knocked down the riders today should not have been there.

My guess is that that particular car was actually in front of the race, but pulled over for some reason. Because the gap between the breakway and the peloton was so big, the car was able to get back on course in the wrong postition.

Every auto credential has a number and where you are and where you are supposed to be during the race is closely monitored by race officials and the gendarmes. If you are in the wrong place, you will be ordered to pull over and wait until it is appropriate for you to be back on course.

I think the rules are OK. This was just the case of a car driver being in the wrong place and somehow being allowed back on course.

Yes, and in addition, there is no cars allowed to overtake within 10km of a Sprint point, so this idiot was out-of-order on several counts ... unbelievable