Rider types

[Fzotrlool]

Hj gurls and guys. I've always wanted to know how many type of riders are.

We all know climbers and sprinters but how many specific types of riders are there in a field? There is a big difference between climbers as Froome and Quintana in tactics and riding style. And a huge difference of the the sprinters (think Kittel and Degenkolb). There is a long way from a cobblestone specialists like Boonen to a hilly one-day riders like Gilbert, but both are riders who love the classics.

Are you able to mention twelve types of riders with some contemporary riders as examples?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

What I like to call Pure climber - People that can accelerate 10000 times up a mountain (Quintana, AC)
TT climber - the Wiggo of climbers, hate accelerations, but can tt themselves up a mountain
Climber - you know, the normal climbers we don't talk to much about
"Sprinter" climber- JRod, 1 km attacks at the end to win the stage

Top Speed sprinter - Cav, Kittel. People with huge top speed
"Power" Sprinter - Hushovd in his prime, not the greatest top speed, but in sprints with 3% uphill they are great (Degenkolb I guess is 1 of these)
Uphill sprinters - The best Punchers combined with the Sagans and EBHs of the world

TTers- Martin
Flat "specialists" - People hat can sit infornt of the peloton for 10 hours every day - Vansevenant

Classics types:
Cobblestones - Boonen Cance
Hilly (ardennes) - Gilbert, Iglinsky

Fighters:
Breakaway riders: People that have sucess from breakaways - Chavanel, Bak
The special breed of fighters: You know, people that we can't really classify - Voigt

Vino riders: the combination of all into a superhuman - Vino, Nibali

Ofc, many riders fits many categories.

 

[Netserk]

There are only two types of riders in this world.

Winners.

Losers.

 

[The Hitch]

You can split it up into hundreds of catergories, there are maybe 5 or 6 base ones but riders are good in various catergories at various degrees so that becomes a large number once you take that into account.

PCM splits it up into

Northern Classics (cobbles) - eg Tom Boonen
Sprinter- eg Cav
Climber- eg Scarponi
TTer- eg Tony Martin
Puncheur - eg Philipe Gil...errr, scrap that. eg -Dan Martin
Stage races - eg Alberto Contador

I cant remember if they also have a flat specialist (havent played in a while), but that would be eg Eisel.

But even those have massive overlap. The best hill rider (Purito) is also one of the best climbers. Stage races is basically climber only with a sufficient degree of tting and "recovery" (which is massively subverted by everything that has happened since the 80's).

Sagan and Cancellara could each fit into 3 of those catergories. Kwiatkowski last season at one stage or another fit into every single one of the above.

Then within catergories you have sub catergories. Eg Freire was a sprinter who could survive almost any obstacle that wasn't a race finish and win from tiny groups, whereas Kittel is also a sprinter but relies on pure bunch finishes. Renshaw is better suited to being a leadout man because he has a lesser top speed but can hold it for longer.

In tts, G Thomas maybe more of a prologue specialist, compared to upcoming tt specialist Christian Quaade who can only do it on long tts.

 

[Fzotrlool]

Cool list, Vino. Guys like Porte and Froome are TT climbers as well, right? Sky seems to specialize in these guys though there are other examples such as Tejay, Peraud, Fuglsang and Talansky.

Good explanation, Hitch. You are always wise and knowledgeable.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

TT-climbers is a bit of a misnomer though, as they would better be considered stage racing all-rounders. They differ as well, based on which is their primary speciality.

For example, a guy like Denis Menchov is a TT-biased stage racer. He is not known for having explosive attacking bursts in the mountains (he has shown this capability on occasion, but it's not really typical for him), and is more of a diesel climber, a follower in the mountains who places himself well with the TT and then takes advantage of others needing to attack him to take his position. If he has an attack in the mountains he will tend to have one big move to try to gain separation, and then it's tempo, and it's about setting one that grinds the others to dust. A guy like Alberto Contador is a climbing-biased stage racer. He is a strong time triallist, especially for a guy of his build, but as a climber he's much more dynamic than the more TT-biased all-rounders. He's more of a pure climber, capable of explosive changes of pace and opening the race up in the mountains to a much greater extent. He can attack again and again to gain that separation and prefers to attack to climb solo rather than to try to force others off him with pace.

Porte is a TTer first and foremost, from his tri background, but who more than holds his own in the mountains; Froome breaks people in the mountains, then puts the exclamation point on in the TTs.

 

[Fzotrlool]

Thanks for the clarification, Libertine.

 

[del1962]

All good points but then you have "El canibal"

 

[The Hitch]

Porte is a TTer first and foremost, from his tri background, but who more than holds his own in the mountains; Froome breaks people in the mountains, then puts the exclamation point on in the TTs.

Extrapolating someone's early specialty onto their entire career is something July fans do and im surprised at you.

Porte a tter first and foremost because he was originally a better tter?

Look at Porte last year on Ax 3 and Alpe d. What results has he had in tts last 2 years or even ever, that even come close to that? The only one that comes close, was ironically, a mountain tt.

You seriously telling me that dude is a tter first and foremost? Really? Cos he is arguably the 2nd best climber in the world, at worst 4th and thats being very generous to Nibali and Purito. In tts on the other hand he is not a top 4 tter (Martin, Wiggins, Froome, Canc all clearly better, Phinney maybe also better) and not close to being in the top 2. Has he ever destroyed everyone in a tt the way he did on the climb in Paris Nice and everyone sans Froome in ax 3?

The fact is riders can change their speciality totally, I dont need to tell you the examples, you know them better than me, and know better ones than I do.

Its perfectly possible in this day and age for riders to become masters of two different catergories (canc 2010, or maybe your beloved Candido Barbosa) masters of catergories they were no good at before (wiggins 2012), to become much better, much worse overnight in some catergories not in others etc etc.
You know this.

Froome got bronze in the olympics without ever having been in a wind tunnel. Only unfavourable wind denied him a tt sweep at last years tdf and he hadnt exactly had much wind tunnel practise in the period since. Its perfectly possible that hes just as good a tter as climber. I dont think he is, I think hes slightly better in the mountains, but it doesnt have to be one or the other. They are separate categories, and he dominates both.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But Porte still climbs in a way comparable to the Menchovs and Evanses of the world, rather than a way comparable to Contador or Quintana. The level of his climbing is right up there, but he doesn't climb like a natural born climber - it is learned. Similarly, while people like Wiggins and Cancellara have textbook TT position and you would call them born time triallists, Froome is not a natural TTer, similar to Armstrong; his position has many flaws, he just slays people with the power he puts down.

I can see why it's unclear and it looks like I'm saying "Porte is a TT rider who can climb a bit" and "Froome is a climber who can do a good TT", but I don't mean it like that. They are different styles of TT rider and different styles of climber, and I perceive these as being because of different initial specialities. The same goes for Wiggins. His way of destroying people on the mountains was built out of high tempo, sitting in the saddle burning everybody else to cinders; to this day we've never really seen Bradley Wiggins trading multiple attacks in the mountains or going multiple times like we saw from Froome on Peña Cabarga or that we've seen from Contador many times - he hasn't needed to, and it isn't his style. Froome's insane outputs mean oftentimes one big attack is enough and he can then ride the rest of the way on his own, but he is more naturally adept at the change of pace and instant reaction to attacks in the mountains than Wiggins is.

They aren't necessarily TT-biased or climb-biased GC riders, they're both obvious all-rounders, but to me I find that it is clear from their TT and climbing styles which one started out specialising in the TTs.

 

[Christian]

Did someone mention "rouleur" yet? It's the least glamourous... but someone's gotta do it

 

[The Hitch]

But Porte still climbs in a way comparable to the Menchovs and Evanses of the world, rather than a way comparable to Contador or Quintana. The level of his climbing is right up there, but he doesn't climb like a natural born climber - it is learned. Similarly, while people like Wiggins and Cancellara have textbook TT position and you would call them born time triallists, Froome is not a natural TTer, similar to Armstrong; his position has many flaws, he just slays people with the power he puts down.

I can see why it's unclear and it looks like I'm saying "Porte is a TT rider who can climb a bit" and "Froome is a climber who can do a good TT", but I don't mean it like that. They are different styles of TT rider and different styles of climber, and I perceive these as being because of different initial specialities. The same goes for Wiggins. His way of destroying people on the mountains was built out of high tempo, sitting in the saddle burning everybody else to cinders; to this day we've never really seen Bradley Wiggins trading multiple attacks in the mountains or going multiple times like we saw from Froome on Peña Cabarga or that we've seen from Contador many times - he hasn't needed to, and it isn't his style. Froome's insane outputs mean oftentimes one big attack is enough and he can then ride the rest of the way on his own, but he is more naturally adept at the change of pace and instant reaction to attacks in the mountains than Wiggins is.

They aren't necessarily TT-biased or climb-biased GC riders, they're both obvious all-rounders, but to me I find that it is clear from their TT and climbing styles which one started out specialising in the TTs.

Froome isn't a natural climber either but he can trade attacks. Porte showed many times he can do attacks and change speed while climbing and look as comfortable as on a training ride. There's nothing special about attacking on climbs that requires prior skill. That's a myth pushed by Brailsford and the secret pro in a cynical attempt to make Anglo riders appear different to their heroes from the previous era. Being able to attack on a climb is 100% down to how much power you have left, 0 to do with style. Cav and Hudhovd were sprinting on ventoux for laughs.