Rigoberto Uran discussion thread.

[carton]

Re:

Monument = Giro podium
WC > Giro podium
Giro podium > Amstel Gold Race
Giro podium >> Piedmonte

Or is it just me?

I would agree with a small change. However, I guess my main point maybe is that a riders' (particularly a non-sprinters) likelihood of repeating a WC win is not that big (also, that winning isn't everything for everyone). Hence a rider with multiple GT podiums who is still in peak form is probably more valuable than a WC winner for a team.

 

[Velolover2]

I personally disagree that the WC is more worth than the Monument. At least not much. Roubaix in particular is finer than the rest.

1. Yellow
2. Pink
3. Roubaix
4. Red
5. Worlds
6. Liege
7. Flanders
8. Sanremo
9. Lombardia
10. Tour Podium
11. Green
12. Suisse
13. Giro podium
14. Nice
15. Dauphine
16. Vasco
17. T-A
18. Flèche
19. Amstel
20. Tour stage
21. Paris-Tours
22. GW
23. Vuelta podium
24. Giro stage
25. Polka dots

 

[carton]

Re:

I personally disagree that the WC is more worth than the Monument. At least not much. Roubaix in particularly is finer than the rest.

1. Yellow
2. Pink
3. Roubaix
4. Red
5. Worlds
6. Liege
7. Flanders
8. Sanremo
9. Lombardia
10. Tour Podium
11. Green
12. Suisse

I'll give you Roubaix. But outside hardcore cycling fans I think a WC and even a Giro podium is worth more than the rest. Maybe not a Vuelta podium. But even a Tour stage win might be worth more than most classics. I guess it also depends on the team as well. Flanders and Roubaix is likely more important for EQS than anything but GT win. In a similar vein a Vuelta win/podium is probably worth more to Movistar than anything but a maillot jeune.

 

[Velolover2]

Yeah I agree with that, carton.

Popular interest and legacy are two different things.

 

[carton]

Re:

Yeah I agree with that, carton.

Popular interest and legacy are two different things.

Well put. But even with legacies, wins aren't everything in my mind. I'm sure someone else would take the Vansummerens and Vainšteins. Even Oscar Perreiro who won a freaking Tour de France. None of them were better riders than Joseba Beloki in my mind. I'd take his palmares, appropriately shaded (not a clinic reference), over theirs any day of the week.

But on the other hand I'm also the kind of guy who remembers Talansky's ride to make the time cut but can't seem to recall who actually won that stage (unless it was Nibali?).

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Nah, they WON GTs, not just lead in them.

But yeah, I agree with majority of users here.

World Championship >>>>>>> Giro podium, and it is not even close.
The fact that Uran should have won Giro 2014 is different matter all along, and that would definitely change the perception of him.

Missed the edit. I'm sure everyone remembers Poulidor for his Vuelta win and Andy Schleck for Liege and his Tour win. Otherwise they would've been far lesser stars than the likes of Laurent Brochard and Oscar Camenzind.

So winning isn't everything then, it's the only thing. After today's finish, I'll give you that for some people that will always be the case.

I remember Beloki much more than any of the other classic winners.

But I am Colombian so I am sided towards GT's anyways.

 

[lenric]

A cold here, some cheating behavior from Quintana there and a little snow once upon a time. Great rider, but far from being one of the best.
Not as good as Evans was, but they're kinda alike.

Let's see if he can reach 4th place in this year's Giro.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

A cold here, some cheating behavior from Quintana there and a little snow once upon a time. Great rider, but far from being one of the best.
Not as good as Evans was, but they're kinda alike.

Let's see if he can reach 4th place in this year's Giro.

wow. worst post in this entire topic. nice job

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

A cold here, some cheating behavior from Quintana there and a little snow once upon a time. Great rider, but far from being one of the best.
Not as good as Evans was, but they're kinda alike.

Let's see if he can reach 4th place in this year's Giro.

wow. worst post in this entire topic. nice job

Don't care about your opinion, but thanks dude, cheers

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

A cold here, some cheating behavior from Quintana there and a little snow once upon a time. Great rider, but far from being one of the best.
Not as good as Evans was, but they're kinda alike.

Let's see if he can reach 4th place in this year's Giro.

wow. worst post in this entire topic. nice job

What part of the post do you disagree with?

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

A cold here, some cheating behavior from Quintana there and a little snow once upon a time. Great rider, but far from being one of the best.
Not as good as Evans was, but they're kinda alike.

Let's see if he can reach 4th place in this year's Giro.

Quintana not good as Evans , that has to be some very bad joke

 

[SeriousSam]

He's saying Uran isn't as good as Evans was. Which is clearly and obviously true.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

A cold here, some cheating behavior from Quintana there and a little snow once upon a time. Great rider, but far from being one of the best.
Not as good as Evans was, but they're kinda alike.

Let's see if he can reach 4th place in this year's Giro.

wow. worst post in this entire topic. nice job

What part of the post do you disagree with?

how about everything?

 

[SeriousSam]

With what though? Mostly a collection of facts. Let's analyse this point for point.

A cold here: Fact
Some cheating from Quintana there: The only thing that's controversial. Most felt the fault was with the organisers.
Great rider: Fact, if you have low standards of greatness.
Far from being the best: Fact
Not as good as Evans: Fact
Kinda alike: This one is debatable.

4/6 pure facts the rest still reasonable.

 

[carton]

Re:

He's saying Uran isn't as good as Evans was. Which is clearly and obviously true.

Come to think about it, they are fairly similar riders, born a smidge over 10 years apart. Evans' best road result before the '05 Tour (when he was older than Rigo is now) was (take your pick):

• 1st Overall Tour of Austria
  3rd Overall Tour de Romandie
  14th Overall Giro d'Italia

I'm not saying Uran will eventually win a Tour, but I'd give it some time before categorically stating that Uran is "clearly and obviously" worse than Evans.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

With what though? Mostly a collection of facts. Let's analyse this point for point.

A cold here: Fact
Some cheating from Quintana there: The only thing that's controversial. Most felt the fault was with the organisers.
Great rider: Fact, if you have low standards of greatness.
Far from being the best: Fact
Not as good as Evans: Fact
Kinda alike: This one is debatable.

4/6 pure facts the rest still reasonable.

the evans thing is bs. evans had age 28 didn't have nearly the results uran has. if you want to compare them it's ridiculous to compare a guy who's already ended his long career to a 28 year old, which his prime still to come.

also the quintana cheating is so much bs I can't put it in words

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

He's saying Uran isn't as good as Evans was. Which is clearly and obviously true.

Thanks.
Thats true.He is not, yet (only better tt-ist)

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

the evans thing is bs. evans had age 28 didn't have nearly the results uran has. if you want to compare them it's ridiculous to compare a guy who's already ended his long career to a 28 year old, which his prime still to come

At 28 Evans did his first Tour (2007). In 2002 at 23 Evans came within 1 mountain of winning the Giro. The intervening years he wasted at Telekom or with broken collarbones. Then you can talk about Evans mountain bike achievments prior to even starting his road career. Agree you can't compare Uran to Evans. Maybe if Evans was Columbian you'd feel different?

Uran may end up a better rider than Evans but he has a long way to go.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

the evans thing is bs. evans had age 28 didn't have nearly the results uran has. if you want to compare them it's ridiculous to compare a guy who's already ended his long career to a 28 year old, which his prime still to come

At 28 Evans did his first Tour (2007). In 2002 at 23 Evans came within 1 mountain of winning the Giro. The intervening years he wasted at Telekom or with broken collarbones. Then you can talk about Evans mountain bike achievments prior to even starting his road career. Agree you can't compare Uran to Evans. Maybe if Evans was Columbian you'd feel different?

Uran may end up a better rider than Evans but he has a long way to go.

uran is from british columbia in your world?

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

A cold here, some cheating behavior from Quintana there and a little snow once upon a time. Great rider, but far from being one of the best.
Not as good as Evans was, but they're kinda alike.

Let's see if he can reach 4th place in this year's Giro.

Quintana not good as Evans , that has to be some very bad joke

No it isn't, he's not as good as Evans, yet...

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

I personally disagree that the WC is more worth than the Monument. At least not much. Roubaix in particular is finer than the rest

Disagree. In Australia Evans 2009 WC win was way bigger than O'Grady's 2007 Roubaix win. Maybe in the cycling world its different but in the wider (non cycling) world a WC win is always bigger than a monument.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

the evans thing is bs. evans had age 28 didn't have nearly the results uran has. if you want to compare them it's ridiculous to compare a guy who's already ended his long career to a 28 year old, which his prime still to come

At 28 Evans did his first Tour (2005). In 2007 at 30 years old on his third try at the Tour as GC leader of his team he reached his first GT podium. In 2002 at 25 Evans came within 17 minutes of winning the Giro. The intervening years he wasted at Telekom or with broken collarbones. Then you can talk about Evans mountain bike achievments prior to even starting his road career. Agree you can't compare Uran to Evans. Maybe if Evans was Columbian you'd feel different?

Uran may end up a better rider than Evans but he has a long way to go.

FTFY (for real). I do think Evans was a great rider. His palmares reads: 3 Tour podiums and a win, Romandie, T-A, Fleche Wallone, third places at the Giro and the Vuelta and a Rainbow jersey. But Uran hasn't even led his team for a Tour yet. He's already done better than Evans did for his career at non-Tour GT results and at the Olympics (even including Evans' MTBking). I'd give it a little time before calling it for Evans.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

the evans thing is bs. evans had age 28 didn't have nearly the results uran has. if you want to compare them it's ridiculous to compare a guy who's already ended his long career to a 28 year old, which his prime still to come

At 28 Evans did his first Tour (2005). In 2007 at 30 years old on his third try at the Tour as GC leader of his team he reached his first GT podium. In 2002 at 25 Evans came within 17 minutes of winning the Giro. The intervening years he wasted at Telekom or with broken collarbones. Then you can talk about Evans mountain bike achievments prior to even starting his road career. Agree you can't compare Uran to Evans. Maybe if Evans was Columbian you'd feel different?

Uran may end up a better rider than Evans but he has a long way to go.

FTFY (for real). I do think Evans was a great rider. His palmares reads: 3 Tour podiums and a win, Romandie, T-A, Fleche Wallone, third places at the Giro and the Vuelta and a Rainbow jersey. But Uran hasn't even led his team for a Tour yet. He's already done better than Evans did for his career at non-Tour GT results and at the Olympics (even including Evans' MTBking). I'd give it a little time before calling it for Evans.

Yes thanks I got the age wrong by two years . But while we are correcting the record that 17 minutes in the 2002 Giro was lost on the last mountain when Evans completely bonked. He was in Pink when that happened so I was correct to say he came within 1 mountain of winning the Giro - at 25. Evans also had a win in the 2002 Commonwealth Games Time trial - beating Mick Rogers. I'm not calling it for Evans yet. Just saying Uran has more to do yet.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

the evans thing is bs. evans had age 28 didn't have nearly the results uran has. if you want to compare them it's ridiculous to compare a guy who's already ended his long career to a 28 year old, which his prime still to come

At 28 Evans did his first Tour (2005). In 2007 at 30 years old on his third try at the Tour as GC leader of his team he reached his first GT podium. In 2002 at 25 Evans came within 17 minutes of winning the Giro. The intervening years he wasted at Telekom or with broken collarbones. Then you can talk about Evans mountain bike achievments prior to even starting his road career. Agree you can't compare Uran to Evans. Maybe if Evans was Columbian you'd feel different?

Uran may end up a better rider than Evans but he has a long way to go.

FTFY (for real). I do think Evans was a great rider. His palmares reads: 3 Tour podiums and a win, Romandie, T-A, Fleche Wallone, third places at the Giro and the Vuelta and a Rainbow jersey. But Uran hasn't even led his team for a Tour yet. He's already done better than Evans did for his career at non-Tour GT results and at the Olympics (even including Evans' MTBking). I'd give it a little time before calling it for Evans.

Yes thanks I got the age wrong by two years . But while we are correcting the record that 17 minutes in the 2002 Giro was lost on the last mountain when Evans completely bonked. He was in Pink when that happened so I was correct to say he came within 1 mountain of winning the Giro - at 25. Evans also had a win in the 2002 Commonwealth Games Time trial - beating Mick Rogers. I'm not calling it for Evans yet. Just saying Uran has more to do yet.

Actually he lost exactly 15 minutes on the Badia-Folgaria stage to Salvodelli and he finished 16:25 down in Milan. So nope. He similarly would've lost to Hamilton regardless. Haven't done the math on the rest. Anyway, as far as being one stage from winning the Giro a case can surely be made for Rigoberto Uran.

Uran surely has more to do, particularly with the emergence of Pinot and the fading out of time trialing in the Tour. But I'll enjoy seeing him try.

 

[lenric]

Ryo, I like you. You seem to be a cool guy, however, too much sucking on Uran.

Let's ignore the fact that Evans started his career in pro cycling later than Uran. I'll even take in consideration that Uran's career started in 2008. Just for the sake of the argument.

Uran did good things in Vuelta a Catalunya, Giro di Lombardia and 2 podiums in il Giro. Oh, and let's not forget the 2nd place at 2012's Olympic games. Probably some Romandie here and a little of success at Liége there.

Now, for Evans. I'll look into the first 7 years of his career (as I did with Uran), so I'm considering starting from 2004 and ending in 2011.
So... we have victories at Romandie, podiums in some classics, World Champion, Pro Tour champion, loads of podiums at GTs and he won le Tour in 2011.


Do I still need to continue? 'Cause I'm starting to think that you're trying to troll me... and in that case, I will laugh lol