Road Tubeless Problem

[AndyFelin]

I’m a come back rider riding now just to keep fit. I ride an eBay special from the ‘80s, a steel Paganini SLX, which rides beautifully. I’ve been gradually bringing it into the 21st century by adding up to date components and fitted a pair of Ultegra Tubeless wheels complete with matching Hutchinson Fusion tyres and Stans NoTubes gunk just over 2 months ago. They’ve behaved impeccably up to 2 days ago when the back tyre punctured and deflated immediately on a rough bit of road. This is when the problems started.

I first tried to re-inflate the tyre after swishing the wheel around to spread the Gunk with no success, the tyre went straight down. I accepted defeat with this and started to remove the tyre. Anyone who has fitted these tyres knows how difficult they are to get on. Well getting them off is only slightly easier and the Gunk makes it a really messy task once you have got the bead over the rim. Covered in Gunk and mud from the road I put a tube in the tyre and tried to remount it using just my hands. I’ve got fairly strong hands but could not get the final few inches of bead over the rim so after 10 minutes of trying and starting to get cold I gave in and used levers to get the tyre to seat over the rim. I was as careful as I could be under the conditions I was working in but after pumping it up heard the dreaded hiss of escaping air and assumed I had nipped the tube. Which I had when I inspected it back home.

Well ****ed of by now, I tried to phone my wife only to have no signal on my mobile (quite common in mid-Wales where I live). After considering the options – walking or trying to ride on a very soft back tyre I chose the latter and started to slowly make my way home. For the first couple of mile I rode out of the saddle but could not keep it up so sat down but tried to anticipate any potholes. I rode like this for about 15 miles and was getting really knackered and then 6 miles from home I got a signal on my phone and called my wife to come and rescue me.

Luckily I did no damage to the rim and the tyre still looks pretty good despite the abuse. On inspection I found two small puncture holes which I think the Gunk should have dealt with but didn’t.

I like the way Tubeless feel but if they leave you stranded despite using Gunk and it's virtually impossible to fit a tube without having to resort to levers, with a good chance of nipping the tube,because they fit so tight, what’s the point?

I’ve bought some Continental 4 Seasons and tubes and have fitted them using just my hands – no problem. I'll go back to my old system of carrying two tubes so, hopefully, this won't happen again.

Has anyone else run into this problem?

 

[TexPat]

I've worn out a set of Fusions without a puncture--a rare thing around here--and have been very happy with the road tubeless system. However, I've got the Dura Ace wheels which have a different shape within the rim bed making tyre fitting a bit more straightforward-- perhaps no easier I admit, because the carbon fibre bead that makes the tubeless road tyres possible makes for very difficult mounting on some rims.
The trick is to be sure that the half of the tyre already fitted is sitting in the middle of the rim bed where the effective diameter is slightly less, rather than near the sidewall where it fits tightly. On a tubeless rim there is a shoulder there where the bead sits snugly in order to seal the air within the tyre; I haven't actually seen the Stans road rimstrip, but I assume it has a similar shape (i.e. fatter at the edge than in the middle).

 

[oldborn]

Fusion 2 are nasty to fit on rims and of, i also come back on Vittoria Rubinho and tube, cos mine tubeless fall appart after some time. I think rollers destroyed them, but they were like after 10x Paris-Roubaix with some 120kg rider on them. There is some room to improvement, but i will be back on tubeless on spring cos much less rolling resistance, and carying spare tube and levers also.

I realize that after 2nd or 3rd time they just becomes more flex, or i became more stronger

There is a official Campagnolo 2way fit video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9_6xZG4o74&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=HHNc_fbsR4c , there is no milk at all, as i call it (Joes no flat or Specialized liquid, i have not seen Stan), only soap and water. I think it is only for demo or you do not need to put milk at all (if you like it, and hope no puncture) Official Campagnolo instructions are similar, just soap water to check.

Anyone?

P.S. And yes Andy, you are having a really nice wife!!

 

[dsut4392]

A few comments from a MTB tubeless rider who still runs tubes on the road.

If the holes truly were small, the gunk should have worked. The one and only time I have had a flat since converting my wheels to tubeless with a Stans kit I put a 1.5cm stick right through the centre of the tread. On removal of the tyre, there was evidence of 5 or 6 smaller punctures which had been sealed by the stans sealant..

Mounting of tubeless tyres can be a PITA as you have found. That said, there is no good reason why you should pinch a tube when mounting a tight tire with tire levers - it just takes patience and care and good tyre levers. One thing that does help when mounting a tight tyre (with a tube) is to start mounting the tyre opposite the valve stem, and finish at the valve. In a tubeless system the valley in the centre of the rim is narrow, and it is hard to get the bead down there if you mount the valve side first, which means the final part of the tyre is much tighter to mount.

 

[AndyFelin]

Thanks for the replies. I'll try to answer some of the issues raised.

I must admit I had forgotten about mounting the tyre starting from opposite the valve stem. I'll give this a try in the workshop this week to see if I can do it just using my hands and report back on how I get on. If I can I'll probably go back to using them after the winter. This is the way I fitted them initially http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXYFxylVHU.

Interestingly, the videos which show show the tyres being put on by hand always seem to use Campag rims. Do these have a deeper well in the middle? Even Stan's video shows him using levers.

Anyway, went out this morning and punctured after 10 miles, a thorn had pushed its way right through the tyre and into the tube. The difference this time was that I could change the tube and was on my way again in 5 minutes.

And my new computer packed up working.

 

[oldborn]

Interestingly, the videos which show show the tyres being put on by hand always seem to use Campag rims. Do these have a deeper well in the middle? Even Stan's video shows him using levers.

I am having Campagnolo Zonda wheels and could not realize how that Campy video guy put on by hands, i do not know other rims but Zonda are nasty.
Yes i also put milk iside but through valves.

 

[AndyFelin]

I must admit I had forgotten about mounting the tyre starting from opposite the valve stem. I'll give this a try in the workshop this week to see if I can do it just using my hands and report back on how I get on.

I eventually got round to this and, guess what, I still can't get the tyre on with my hands despite trying all the suggested tips. This was without a tube which would only make it more difficult and a tyre that has been on and off a couple of times.

 

[dsut4392]

I eventually got round to this and, guess what, I still can't get the tyre on with my hands despite trying all the suggested tips. This was without a tube which would only make it more difficult and a tyre that has been on and off a couple of times.

FWIW, I wasn't saying it would be that much easier that you would be able to do it without tire levers. Even with 2.4" MTB tires which have a lot more rubber to get a grip on, and are designed for lower pressure (so don't need to have as tight a bead), I still had to use levers to get the tyre on...