Rui Costa

[proffate]

I do think there isn't/wasn't a colective doping programme inside Movistar and it's ancestor.

Why not? They've stated repeatedly they look to Sky as a model for how to run a professional/scientific team. They have a pretty impressive train in some of the hillier races.

What I don't understand about movistar is why go through so much effort to dope if Valverde is going to race for 2nd place in every race?

 

[Hugo87]

You're right in second part, but not at all. In portuguese cycling (it's the reality that I know) the doping starts in under-15 races and there's some positives in under-19 races. Some are known but not all.

Thanks for the info.

I think he's clean.

Don't think so, but he's got talent, it's not only the juice like others.

 

[manafana]

he might have dabbled back in the day considering, hes still not that consistent but could that just be the way he likes it.

 

[cineteq]

Why, because he beat Canc? It was very good but it wasn't all that special. Costa has always been a good hilly time trial rider and Cancellara stopped being the benchmark for time trialing a couple years ago. Martin still easily beat Costa and put a good amount of time on him on the flat part of the course.

But i will say one thing, imo his ITT was good but not alarm raising, and if you want a truly alarm raising performance at the TdS then check Martin's performance. Still better in the itt's than everyone yet climbing with the best for the first time in his life. Hell the day after the itt he was stronger than Costa up Verbier. When did Martin find this climbing legs? Has he been hiding them for the past 4/5 years?

I'm not saying that Martin is a climber, but we've seen decent climbing performances few years ago, and this year. He won P-N didn't he? My point is Costa is too close to Martin's ITT results. Therefore something is fishy. I don't buy your 'theory' tha he was better last year.

 

[Parrulo]

The PN Martin won had some really crappy parcours. It had a 30k itt and the most selective stage was decided by a sprint of 8 with 20 riders inside 20 seconds.

That very same year after hyping himself for GC in the Tour, he was droped by a group of 40 on the Tourmalet on the first mountain stage. During the 2010 TdS while in yellow he lost minutes on the stage to la punt that Gesink won.

So no Martin isn't a decent climber and his performance in Swiss was way above all expectations.

Anyway back to Costa and his itt, like i said, i don't think it was all that suspicious. I am not saying Costa is clean, check this thread and you will see that i am under no illusion, i just really don't think it was particularly out of ordinary.

Let's see some results to compare.

Grenoble hilly ITT of the 2011 Dauphine when Costa had returned to competition in the Ardennes after being sidelined since the 2010 Tour because of the supplement incident.

Stage 3 (ITT) » Grenoble › Grenoble (42.5k/26.4m
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyHTC - High Road65055:2845.974

10 COSTA RuiMovistar Team12:0044.374

2012 Algarve flat itt:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Lagoa › Portim (25.8k/16.0m)
Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 WIGGINS BradleySky Procycling162032:4847.195
2 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step1112,,,,

13 COSTA RuiMovistar Team0:5945.821

Romandie MTFish/hilly itt in 2012:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Crans-Montana › Crans-Montana (16.5k/10.3m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 WIGGINS BradleySky Procycling65028:5634.217
2 TALANSKY AndrewTeam Garmin - Barracuda4300:0134.197
3 PORTE RichieSky Procycling2180:1733.885
4 COSTA RuiMovistar Team1130:2333.769
5 KREUZIGER RomanAstana Pro Team1100:4033.446

2012 TdS hilly itt:
Stage 6 (ITT) » Gossau › Gossau (34.3k/21.3m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 KESSIAKOFF FredrikAstana Pro Team65046:3644.163
2 CANCELLARA FabianRadioShack - Nissan4300:0244.132

8 COSTA RuiMovistar Team30:4143.525

2012 TdF hilly itt:
Stage 9 (ITT) » Arc-et-senans › Besancon (38k/23.6m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 WIGGINS BradleySky Procycling2010051:2444.358
2 FROOME ChristopherSky Procycling10700:3543.860
3 CANCELLARA FabianRadioShack - Nissan6500:5743.553 ( injured from crashes iirc)

8 NIBALI VincenzoLiquigas - Cannondale182:0742.604

12 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step62:1642.484 (Broken hand)

14 COSTA RuiMovistar Team22:2242.405

Take away the Sky borgs and it was a pretty good itt less than 20 secs down on Nibs.

2013 long flat itt Algarve:
Stage 4 (ITT) » Castro Marim › Tavira (34.8k/21.6m)
Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step162045:0946.246

8 COSTA RuiMovistar Team1,,,,

2013 hilly Pais Vasco ITT coming back from his PN crash:
Stage 6 (ITT) » Beasain › Beasain (24k/14.9m
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step65035:0541.045

12 COSTA RuiMovistar Team1:2239.506

2013 Romandie flat itt:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Genève › Genève (18.6k/11.6m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step65021:0752.849

3 FROOME ChristopherSky Procycling2180:3451.468

13 COSTA RuiMovistar Team,,,

The TdS itt was pretty much a MTF so it's not really worth posting it and he did an awful flat time trial in the TdF last year (he claimed a bad day)

This year:

Algarve itt:
Stage 3 (ITT) » Vila do Bispo › Sagres (13.6k/8.5m
Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 KWIATKOWSKI MichalOmega Pharma - Quick-Step162014:0358.078

3 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step670:1357.196
4 CONTADOR AlbertoTinkoff-Saxo550:2056.732

12 COSTA RuiLampre-Merida,,

Romandie itt:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Neuchâtel › Neuchâtel (18.5k/11.5m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 FROOME ChristopherTeam Sky65024:5044.698
2 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step4300:0144.668

8 COSTA RuiLampre-Merida30:3143.787

And now the TdS hilly itt:
Stage 7 (ITT) » Worb › Worb (24.7k/15.4m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step65031:3746.874
2 DUMOULIN TomTeam Giant-Shimano4300:2246.337
3 COSTA RuiLampre-Merida2180:2846.192


2013 was clearly Tony Martin's best time trial year and this year he hasn't looked nowhere near as impressive in that discipline while apparently he is climbing much better. Costa is also 2 years young so he is only now reaching his peak unlike Martin who has been at his best for a couple years now.

Does it really look like a full *** performance instead of a just a very good one?

Meh pretty crappy copy/pasting from procyclingstats but you can easily check the results there by just browsing Costa's Page

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Yes...............

 

[Parrulo]

Hmmm wasn't there an abarca thread? I remember discussion Costa there with some delusional portuguese fanboys some time ago.

 

[cineteq]

The PN Martin won had some really crappy parcours. It had a 30k itt and the most selective stage was decided by a sprint of 8 with 20 riders inside 20 seconds.

That very same year after hyping himself for GC in the Tour, he was droped by a group of 40 on the Tourmalet on the first mountain stage. During the 2010 TdS while in yellow he lost minutes on the stage to la punt that Gesink won.

So no Martin isn't a decent climber and his performance in Swiss was way above all expectations.

Anyway back to Costa and his itt, like i said, i don't think it was all that suspicious. I am not saying Costa is clean, check this thread and you will see that i am under no illusion, i just really don't think it was particularly out of ordinary.

Let's see some results to compare.

Grenoble hilly ITT of the 2011 Dauphine when Costa had returned to competition in the Ardennes after being sidelined since the 2010 Tour because of the supplement incident.

Stage 3 (ITT) » Grenoble › Grenoble (42.5k/26.4m
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyHTC - High Road65055:2845.974

10 COSTA RuiMovistar Team12:0044.374

2012 Algarve flat itt:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Lagoa › Portim (25.8k/16.0m)
Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 WIGGINS BradleySky Procycling162032:4847.195
2 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step1112,,,,

13 COSTA RuiMovistar Team0:5945.821

Romandie MTFish/hilly itt in 2012:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Crans-Montana › Crans-Montana (16.5k/10.3m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 WIGGINS BradleySky Procycling65028:5634.217
2 TALANSKY AndrewTeam Garmin - Barracuda4300:0134.197
3 PORTE RichieSky Procycling2180:1733.885
4 COSTA RuiMovistar Team1130:2333.769
5 KREUZIGER RomanAstana Pro Team1100:4033.446

2012 TdS hilly itt:
Stage 6 (ITT) » Gossau › Gossau (34.3k/21.3m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 KESSIAKOFF FredrikAstana Pro Team65046:3644.163
2 CANCELLARA FabianRadioShack - Nissan4300:0244.132

8 COSTA RuiMovistar Team30:4143.525

2012 TdF hilly itt:
Stage 9 (ITT) » Arc-et-senans › Besancon (38k/23.6m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 WIGGINS BradleySky Procycling2010051:2444.358
2 FROOME ChristopherSky Procycling10700:3543.860
3 CANCELLARA FabianRadioShack - Nissan6500:5743.553 ( injured from crashes iirc)

8 NIBALI VincenzoLiquigas - Cannondale182:0742.604

12 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step62:1642.484 (Broken hand)

14 COSTA RuiMovistar Team22:2242.405

Take away the Sky borgs and it was a pretty good itt less than 20 secs down on Nibs.

2013 long flat itt Algarve:
Stage 4 (ITT) » Castro Marim › Tavira (34.8k/21.6m)
Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step162045:0946.246

8 COSTA RuiMovistar Team1,,,,

2013 hilly Pais Vasco ITT coming back from his PN crash:
Stage 6 (ITT) » Beasain › Beasain (24k/14.9m
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step65035:0541.045

12 COSTA RuiMovistar Team1:2239.506

2013 Romandie flat itt:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Genève › Genève (18.6k/11.6m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step65021:0752.849

3 FROOME ChristopherSky Procycling2180:3451.468

13 COSTA RuiMovistar Team,,,

The TdS itt was pretty much a MTF so it's not really worth posting it and he did an awful flat time trial in the TdF last year (he claimed a bad day)

This year:

Algarve itt:
Stage 3 (ITT) » Vila do Bispo › Sagres (13.6k/8.5m
Pos.RiderTeamEuTPntTimeAvg
1 KWIATKOWSKI MichalOmega Pharma - Quick-Step162014:0358.078

3 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step670:1357.196
4 CONTADOR AlbertoTinkoff-Saxo550:2056.732

12 COSTA RuiLampre-Merida,,

Romandie itt:
Stage 5 (ITT) » Neuchâtel › Neuchâtel (18.5k/11.5m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 FROOME ChristopherTeam Sky65024:5044.698
2 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step4300:0144.668

8 COSTA RuiLampre-Merida30:3143.787

And now the TdS hilly itt:
Stage 7 (ITT) » Worb › Worb (24.7k/15.4m)
Pos.RiderTeamWTPntTimeAvg
1 MARTIN TonyOmega Pharma - Quick-Step65031:3746.874
2 DUMOULIN TomTeam Giant-Shimano4300:2246.337
3 COSTA RuiLampre-Merida2180:2846.192


2013 was clearly Tony Martin's best time trial year and this year he hasn't looked nowhere near as impressive in that discipline while apparently he is climbing much better. Costa is also 2 years young so he is only now reaching his peak unlike Martin who has been at his best for a couple years now.

Does it really look like a full *** performance instead of a just a very good one?

Meh pretty crappy copy/pasting from procyclingstats but you can easily check the results there by just browsing Costa's Page

I'll get back to you. I have to check every single result you posted because it's unreadable. Don't be lazy man. Plus I wanted to see results over 25Km, not less.

 

[Parrulo]

Why do you only want results over 25k when the TdS itt was 25k?

I posted results over and under that.

 

[el_angliru]

Tony Martin has lost quite a bit of weight this year without loosing much power. This obviously makes him a better climber. I've read this on several sites, perhaps even here on CN. He also said his loss of weight helped him during the Tour de Suisse. So he's probably a better climber now in 2014 than he used to be...

Sorry, can't find a link atm.
EDIT: here's one link

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Tony Martin has lost quite a bit of weight this year without loosing much power. This obviously makes him a better climber. I've read this on several sites, perhaps even here on CN. He also said his loss of weight helped him during the Tour de Suisse. So he's probably a better climber now in 2014 than he used to be...

Sorry, can't find a link atm.
EDIT: here's one link

We should label this, the "Sky defense", IMO.

 

[robow7]

How the hell do these guys "lose weight" all of a sudden after riding professionally for years? You mean it never hit them over the last five or more years that if I manage to scrape a little more weight off my already skeletal frame that I'll climb better. Come on, they've probably done everything they can honestly in the past but somehow overnight they can drop a few more kgs with no health issues and maintain same power.

 

[Parrulo]

Seems like the effects of leaving Abarca are really showing on Costa.

Says a lot about both imo

 

[Bernalve]

Seems like the effects of leaving Abarca are really showing on Costa.

Says a lot about both imo

Can you explain this better???

 

[Netserk]

Can you explain this better???

Movistar = Better dope.

 

[Benotti69]

Movistar = Better dope.

Movistar = better doping doctor

Lampre are not in a great place right now as there is an investigation underway concerning team doping, so their 'preparation' might not be as up to date as other teams

 

[Parrulo]

Movistar = Better dope.

^^that

Also the recent case with Ulissi and all that might have made them take a last minute step back on the program.

Horner is most likely doing his own thing so i wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't affected by any of this.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Lampre are not in a great place right now as there is an investigation underway concerning team doping

On an Italian team? Unfounded rumors, I'm sure.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Suffering Bronchitis ?

He needs some of them horse steroids obviously.