Rules for Foreign GT-Starts

[RedheadDane]

Okay, I realise that this could seem really hypocritical, since I didn't exactly complain about the Giro starting in Denmark three years ago.
Some talk over in the "rumour thread" for the 2016 Giro made me think that maybe there should be some kind of rules for foreign GT starts; nothing big, just something such as:

1: Only neighbouring countries. Turns out that Denmark is not, in fact, a neighbour of Italy.

2: Max three road stages in the other country, preferably crossing into the prober country during the third stage. However, in situations - such as with the 2014 TdF - in which that's rather impractical, crossing into the prober country may happen as a transfer after the third stage.

Dunno if there should be any rules about how frequently a GT can start in a foreign country...

 

[Jspear]

I can't agree!! If the Giro wants to start here in the US (especially on the east coast) I ain't going to complain!

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't mind the foreign starts as long as they're in Europe. US or Australia or Qatar is not going to work.
About the frequency, about once every 5 years seems okay to me.
I think these foreign starts generate more money for the organizers than native starts.

 

[Electress]

I think the Ireland start for the Giro cause some logistical headaches, and on the whole, I think they are better when the riders can roll through to the normal host after a couple of stages. Obviously, it was great to see it in the UK, but I still think it works best when there is an adjoining border.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I dislike these foreign starts, which are only ruled by one thing: cash.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

I can't agree!! If the Giro wants to start here in the US (especially on the east coast) I ain't going to complain!

Especially if Manassas, right?

I'm also not against it, but I think some moderation is needed, and not turn it into some banality. Once every 5 years. Perhaps less for neighbouring countries.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Have some of you forgotten how incredible Yorkshire was last year? If foreign starts are like that, I'm all for it.

 

[Christian]

Re:

I dislike these foreign starts, which are only ruled by one thing: cash.

Completely agree. Foreign starts have been way overdone in the last years, it's gotten somewhat ridiculous

 

[Velolover2]

I like how all your post have Denmark or Danish riders in it, Redhead.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Have some of you forgotten how incredible Yorkshire was last year? If foreign starts are like that, I'm all for it.

I get the point about adjoining borders that Electress makes, but with the Channel Tunnel you can argue that Great Britain is adjoining; with the 3rd stage finishing in London, it made the transfer to France very quick and easy, no rest day needed, and is if anything less of a logistical issue than the 2013 start in Corsica or when the Vuelta went from Valencia to Mallorca for a couple of stages then back back in the 90s.

I think the criticisms are mooted more at the Giro starting in Ireland or Denmark or the Giro and Vuelta starting in the Netherlands; though the Netherlands are not adjoining France, it's easy enough to go from one country to the other even in one stage, while to go from those to Italy or Spain is a major logistical matter requiring an early rest day. The Vuelta has only actually started abroad twice, although it has also a few starts in non-contiguous parts of Spain like the Balearic and Canary Islands.

For my reckoning, the following would be "acceptably local" external start places for each GT that most people ought not to complain about. Going further afield than these really ought to be a rarity:

Il Giro:
- non-contiguous Italy (i.e. Sardinia, Sicily, other such islands)
- France (Nice or Marseille logical places, maybe Avignon for religious grounds, or Corsica)
- local microstates (San Marino, Vatican, to a lesser extent Monaco or Liechtenstein)
- Switzerland, Austria or southern Germany (though perhaps unlikely given what would be necessary route pacing from that)
- Slovenia
- Croatia (not contiguous but easy to visit traversing Slovenia in a single stage, like in 2004)
- Malta
- Tunisia

Le Tour:
- non-contiguous France (e.g. Corsica; the likes of Réunion or Guadeloupe are a bit harder to envisage!!!)
- Benelux nations
- United Kingdom (as long as the last stage ends close enough to London or somewhere in Kent to make the transfer viable)
- Spain (especially Catalunya or País Vasco like in '92, although this can have issues pacing-wise with the Pyrenées so close)
- local micro-states (Andorra, Monaco)
- western parts of Germany (Köln, Bonn, Frankfurt, Trier)
- Switzerland
- Italy (Sanremo, Torino, Genoa, Sardinia)

La Vuelta:
- non-contiguous Spain (Baleares, Canarias, Ceuta, Melilla)
- Portugal
- local micro-states (Andorra)
- United Kingdom (Gibraltar)
- France
- Morocco

 

[Happy dude]

I think they should start in England, and TT through the channel tunnel. Froome did!

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Nothing wrong with starting in Yorkshire as long as it's the Tour of Britain (or Yorkshire)

Clue is in the name

 

[jmdirt]

I've always found it odd that the Tour of _____________ (fill in the blank) would have any stages in other countries. ie: The TdF should be in France. But as others have already said, its about money (money from the start towns, and money from new fans).

EDIT: The Tour of California is starting in Boise, Idaho next year!

 

[Sciocco]

Need a Giro start in NYC.

Otherwise stay in neighbouring countries only. Wasn't Giro thinking Montenegro start at some point?

 

[Electress]

Re:

Need a Giro start in NYC.

Otherwise stay in neighbouring countries only. Wasn't Giro thinking Montenegro start at some point?

Probably wouldn't be that problematic in Montenegro, since you could easily hop on the ferry to Bari and spend a bit more time than usual in the south of Italy. Or about three stages will get you to Trieste through Croatia - used to be Venetian, after all...

 

[Sciocco]

Re: Re:

Need a Giro start in NYC.

Otherwise stay in neighbouring countries only. Wasn't Giro thinking Montenegro start at some point?

Probably wouldn't be that problematic in Montenegro, since you could easily hop on the ferry to Bari and spend a bit more time than usual in the south of Italy. Or about three stages will get you to Trieste through Croatia - used to be Venetian, after all...

ITT/Prologue in Montenegro, followed by 2-3 stages along the Adriatic to get to Trieste. I like it.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I can't agree!! If the Giro wants to start here in the US (especially on the east coast) I ain't going to complain!

Especially if Manassas, right?

I'm also not against it, but I think some moderation is needed, and not turn it into some banality. Once every 5 years. Perhaps less for neighbouring countries.

Right.
No in reality I agree with your post and others that say it should be done in moderation. If the riders didn't want to travel across the Atlantic in the middle of a GT, than I wouldn't want them to have to do it just for the pleasure of fans.

 

[del1962]

Have some of you forgotten how incredible Yorkshire was last year? If foreign starts are like that, I'm all for it.

I get the point about adjoining borders that Electress makes, but with the Channel Tunnel you can argue that Great Britain is adjoining; with the 3rd stage finishing in London, it made the transfer to France very quick and easy, no rest day needed, and is if anything less of a logistical issue than the 2013 start in Corsica or when the Vuelta went from Valencia to Mallorca for a couple of stages then back back in the 90s.

I think the criticisms are mooted more at the Giro starting in Ireland or Denmark or the Giro and Vuelta starting in the Netherlands; though the Netherlands are not adjoining France, it's easy enough to go from one country to the other even in one stage, while to go from those to Italy or Spain is a major logistical matter requiring an early rest day. The Vuelta has only actually started abroad twice, although it has also a few starts in non-contiguous parts of Spain like the Balearic and Canary Islands.

For my reckoning, the following would be "acceptably local" external start places for each GT that most people ought not to complain about. Going further afield than these really ought to be a rarity:

Il Giro:
- non-contiguous Italy (i.e. Sardinia, Sicily, other such islands)
- France (Nice or Marseille logical places, maybe Avignon for religious grounds, or Corsica)
- local microstates (San Marino, Vatican, to a lesser extent Monaco or Liechtenstein)
- Switzerland, Austria or southern Germany (though perhaps unlikely given what would be necessary route pacing from that)
- Slovenia
- Croatia (not contiguous but easy to visit traversing Slovenia in a single stage, like in 2004)
- Malta
- Tunisia

Le Tour:
- non-contiguous France (e.g. Corsica; the likes of Réunion or Guadeloupe are a bit harder to envisage!!!)
- Benelux nations
- United Kingdom (as long as the last stage ends close enough to London or somewhere in Kent to make the transfer viable)
- Spain (especially Catalunya or País Vasco like in '92, although this can have issues pacing-wise with the Pyrenées so close)
- local micro-states (Andorra, Monaco)
- western parts of Germany (Köln, Bonn, Frankfurt, Trier)
- Switzerland
- Italy (Sanremo, Torino, Genoa, Sardinia)

La Vuelta:
- non-contiguous Spain (Baleares, Canarias, Ceuta, Melilla)
- Portugal
- local micro-states (Andorra)
- United Kingdom (Gibraltar)
- France
- Morocco

Good luck getting a Vuelta starting in Gibraltar

 

[Andro]

Re:

I dislike these foreign starts, which are only ruled by one thing: cash.

Agreed.

 

[RedheadDane]

Have some of you forgotten how incredible Yorkshire was last year? If foreign starts are like that, I'm all for it.

The TdF starting in UK would be fine, France and UK are neighbouring countries. Sure, there's a body of Water between them, but so there is between Corsica and mainland France; the point is that it's possible to get from UK to France in a normal transfer without needing to use a restday for it.

I think they should start in England, and TT through the channel tunnel. Froome did!

I still think they should just have a stage in pedal-boats!
As for a TT through the channel tunnel; can you imagine the traffical issues that would result in?

I like how all your post have Denmark or Danish riders in it, Redhead.

Not all of them. This hasn't.
Just used the Danish Giro start as an example of how silly those far-off starts really are.

 

[del1962]

I think they should start in England, and TT through the channel tunnel. Froome did!

I still think they should just have a stage in pedal-boats!
As for a TT through the channel tunnel; can you imagine the traffical issues that would result in?

It is a relief tunnel they used, main problem though is no GPS signal for strava

 

[Potomac]

I'm still feeling robbed from a few years ago when there was all this talk about starting the Giro in Washington, DC.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

I dislike these foreign starts, which are only ruled by one thing: cash.

Agreed.

And many races were started to commercially promote something!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Good luck getting a Vuelta starting in Gibraltar

Whilst I agree it's unlikely, it's not as implausible as you might imagine. The Vuelta a Andalucía/Ruta del Sol had a planned ITT in Gibraltar back in around 2009-10, but funding from the Llanitos wasn't enough and they moved the TT to La Línea or Málaga I think. And I don't think there would ever be a Vuelta starting there, but given that Our Rock is averaging 10% in gradient to climb to the top station, Javier Guillén would, with the current direction the Vuelta has been going, have at least some interest in placing a stage there, at least once the new road to the East of the runway is completed making transit easier? Even if he then has to start the next stage in La Línea or Algeciras.

 

[RedheadDane]

A bit of any idea I've had the last few days - unfortunately I don't know if it's practical/possible - is instead of having the GT itself start in a far-off country, then simply having a one-day race in connection to the GT some time before the GT itself starts. The team rosters would be the same as those in the GT, with a few exceptions:

1: It would be only seven, or eight man teams.

2: If a rider got injuried during the one-day race - or got sick between the one-day race and the GT - the team would be able to call in a replacement for the GT.