Sean Yates

[Froome19]

Whether Brailsford will get away with not investigating and most likely subsequently firing him.. probably not considering the publics pressure on him.

It is not an ideal situation for Brailsford who as any other manager would, wants to keep such staff but due to Sky's stance on doping it does not make it possible in most circumstances.

Lets get this straight I am sure that Brailsford was reluctant to fire (or "not renew contract of") Leinders and likewise with Yates possibly and anyone else who may be implicated and rightly so. Any manager would not be happy when they have to get rid of quality staff, but it is something that has to be done in Brailsford's case. To blame him for his reluctance is a bit harsh imo.

It is not Brailford's ideal because he knows that Yates is doing nothing at the moment which maybe considered suspicious but due to his commitment to the fans it is something that he is required to do.

Also interesting to see how he does react to it, Leinders was a straightforward decision and his comments about Barry were pretty damning and I would like him to follow them up, for me he does not need to prove himself by acting on Yates, but for others he does.

 

[skidmark]

God what garbage. This is why team Sky, even if they're clean (a 6000-comment thread here makes this clearly a matter of debate), represent the exact wrong approach to things in cycling - the policy of not hiring anyone who has 'a history' with doping is so image-centered and nothing else, it's deplorable. I mean, come on, how are you going to have a cycling team at the top level without people who at least knew SOMETHING about doping, because it was the only thing going on at the top level of cycling for so long. The only way - well, the best way, in my opinion - that you're going to clear the rubble and make sure you have people who want to make the sport better, is to make it OKAY for them to talk about this stuff. Otherwise, everyone's afraid to talk as always, and you have no way of knowing what anyone's history really is. Openness will force everyone to confront their past, and I think you can tell alot more about people by how they deal with confronting that truth than you can by 'don't ask don't tell'.

Sky can go to hell. Hey Brailsford, did you feel it was 'shocking, obviously' to see this year's prime mountain domestique Mick Rogers mentioned very clearly as a Ferrari client (something anyone with a brain has known for years)? Oh but I guess he's not suspected or convicted, just mentioned alongside Kash, Vino et al. No problem, I guess if Sean Yates drove Rogers to Ferrari's trailer and dropped him off it'd be no big deal, since he didn't 'see anything'.

 

[thehog]

I've heard a lot of innuendo around Sean Yates, just wondering how long he was working with Lance (that article suggests only one season, one Tour de France).

There's an easy assumption to say he's the DS, he must either know or worst be complicit in the doping. However it's clear he wasn't a major protagonist in the doping (of Lance and the rest of the team), like Ferrari was, even if he was aware of it. While he's quilty of sticking to the omerta (and there aren't many in the sport that aren't), it's not as if he was supplying or instructing the riders in the use of EPO. That would seem to be the domain of Ferrari and Lance himself.

I also thinks it's a fallacy to suggest manager/bosses etc are aware of what their employees are up to. I'm an account manager so essentially sales, so know that people will take an opportunity to achieve targets, sometimes by foul means if the necessity is required. I've never fully broken rules, but I have skimmed them on occasion. You know what? Success armours you: a company isn't going to conduct witch hunts on their best achieving employees. Sean Yates comes into the TdF as DS of Lance Armstrong in 2005, where is the power?

If you think with Yates you are in cloud cuckoo land. Lance called the shots, his influence clearly extended beyond the team, throughout the peloton and into the sport's governing body. You think if Yates had said anything, anything would have changed? He would have lost his job, he would have been black-marked and out the sport. And while he may have suspected as everyone did, I doubt he was in the inner-circle.

Just remember managers don't always know what is going on: that's why get rogue-traders bankrupting banks. Also remember in companies or teams managers or captains can be less influential then the successful members of the team: even if they call a person on their performance the chances are nothing would change.

There is a danger of being overly puritanical: the sport was riddled with drugs, it's impossible to emerge from that entirely untainted. Yates may have turned a blind eye, but he wasn't a major protagonist of the cheating either. I know the fevered desire to build team Sky into a zerox of USPostal, but Yates isn't the conduit IMO

Come on Jimmy. You could hide you’re manlove a little better than that!

Really? He knew nothing. You do realize that Yates was a “father figure” for Armstrong at Motorola. Both are quoted on this. Yates showed Lance “Europe” and the way things got done.

Good Grief!

 

[JimmyFingers]

Disappointing but totally understandable, he would have lost his job at Sky if he admitted to any links whatsoever..

Essentially he is asked to be the whistleblower. There are dozens, even hundreds of potential whistleblowers, its understandable he didn't given his situation. It is blackmark on the reputation of 'clean'Sky yes, but the popular assumption is he was heavily involved in Lance's doping, and took that with him to Sky. That is a huge leap of logic, extreme speculation.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Disappointing but totally understandable, he would have lost his job at Sky if he admitted to any links whatsoever..

Will you ever figure out that Sky's policy is one of strict omerta?

Never mind the investigation into Leinders, what about the full investigation into Barry that Brailsford promised after Landis' revelations. Not a very thorough investigation was it?

Braislford is full of ****. It's that simple.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yates rode for Motorola 1991-1996, so he was on the same team as Armstrong and rode the 1994 TDF him. Had a positive test in 1989

As a manager (a bit more than mere car driver) he went from CSC to Disco in 2005.

Considering that many DS's will micromanage a riders diet, fashion habits etc, it is hard to believe that they would be completely oblivious to something as major as the doping program you were on.

I'm not privy to the influence Yates had coming onto an established team with a 'patron' going for his seventh win in the TdF. I'm guessing not a lot, and I think it's a given that the practises were well established before his arrival.

I'm not saying he didn't know, that he turned a blind eye. Yes in an ideal world he would have blown the whistle, but as I say, he also can't be accused of being a major protagonist in Lance and his team's doping.

And I'm not proclaiming his innocence 100%, just trying to be a voice of reason. Sometime 2+2 does equal 4.

 

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

Someone should get a screen cap before it disappears

http://www.teamsky.com/profile/0,27291,17543_6638136,00.html

But it was during the 1990s that Yates established himself as a top domestique and at the American Motorola team helped mentor one particularly talented young rider called Lance Armstrong.

And after years of sacrificing his own chances of success for other, Yates was granted his day in the sun when he wore the yellow jersey for one day during the 1994 Tour.

Armstrong often mentioned his debt to Yates for the advice he provided, and in 2005 the record Tour winner invited him to become a sports director at his Discovery Channel team. In the 2009 season Yates worked once again with Armstrong at the Astana team before taking on his role at Team Sky.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Done........

 

[thehog]

Done........

Could you post here?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

I'm not privy to the influence Yates had coming onto an established team with a 'patron' going for his seventh win in the TdF. I'm guessing not a lot, and I think it's a given that the practises were well established before his arrival.

I'm not saying he didn't know, that he turned a blind eye. Yes in an ideal world he would have blown the whistle, but as I say, he also can't be accused of being a major protagonist in Lance and his team's doping.

And I'm not proclaiming his innocence 100%, just trying to be a voice of reason. Sometime 2+2 does equal 4.

He came onto that team at the request of the established "patron"....who knew him from their motorola days. If you are trying to be a voice of reason, do you think it's reasonable to suspect he was brought in as someone who could be trusted to help with the doping logistics?

 

[131313]

I'm not privy to the influence Yates had coming onto an established team with a 'patron' going for his seventh win in the TdF. I'm guessing not a lot, and I think it's a given that the practises were well established before his arrival.

I'm not saying he didn't know, that he turned a blind eye. Yes in an ideal world he would have blown the whistle, but as I say, he also can't be accused of being a major protagonist in Lance and his team's doping.

And I'm not proclaiming his innocence 100%, just trying to be a voice of reason. Sometime 2+2 does equal 4.

You are not being a voice of reason, you're hanging onto a position that is untenable. While he may not have been deeply in the inner circle, it's simply not reasonable to conceive that he wasn't fully aware of what was going on with the team, or to believe his current lies. He's protecting his position in the sport, just like Steve Johnson, all of the confessed riders, etc.

At this point, the only hope for the real truth to come out is if Armstrong himself tells the truth and outs everybody: Johnson, Wiesel, everyone at the UCI, everyone within Postal, etc. Until that happens we're left with people telling as much as they think that can while still holding onto their piece of the stinky pie.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I asked for further details and I got them, and I concur I was wrong to assume low-influence from Yates. I agree his involvement is very suspicious, although I maintain he probably wasn't a protagonist, but likely a facilitator.

 

[Mellow Velo]

From the CN piece:
Yates claimed that his role was just to drive the Discovery Channel team car and come up with team tactics.

“I was with Lance in 2005, for his last Tour win. Before that I was working with another team."

The problem with that excuse is that the other team Yates talks of was the Discovery Giro winning team of Rider-1 (the rider formally known as Paolo Savoldelli.)

 

[erader]

and the lies just keep on coming.

 

[hiero2]

. . .There's an easy assumption to say he's the DS, he must either know or worst be complicit in the doping. However it's clear he wasn't a major protagonist in the doping . . .
. . .
You think if Yates had said anything, anything would have changed? He would have lost his job, he would have been black-marked and out the sport. And while he may have suspected as everyone did, I doubt he was in the inner-circle.

Just remember managers don't always know what is going on: that's why get rogue-traders bankrupting banks. . . .

There is a danger of being overly puritanical: the sport was riddled with drugs, it's impossible to emerge from that entirely untainted. Yates may have turned a blind eye, but he wasn't a major protagonist of the cheating either. . . .

No, I certainly am not saying Yates was a protagonist. He wasn't mentioned in the USADA docs to my knowledge, and they are pretty comprehensive. But you ARE saying pretty much what I did - Yates should have known, and probably did. That he now professes to "know nothing" stinks, no matter which way I turn it. It smells hypocritical and disingenuous.

Now - slightly OT - all those "rogue" traders? Ask yourself if that situation could be like the omerta in cycling. "Ooooooo, we have a rogue trader! But we know nothing! Nothing!" That happens to be another industry that I have had some contact with, and my opinion there is that they are ALL just as dirty as can be. The rogue traders are scapegoats, or like Ricco, off on some tip of the iceberg. But they aren't far away from the rest of the iceberg!

As for painting Sky any particular color, I've been doing some defending of them around here - although I have also been honest that I am keeping my skepticism alive. If I am guilty of trying to paint them anything, it is the color of innocence. But they keep effing it up. All by their little selves. Imo, Brailsford and Yates did the team no favors with their responses.

 

[erader]

you think sky is clean? did you see the TDF this year?

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Didn't Hamilton say in his book that the guy who dropped off the dope for Armstrong, Hamilton and Kevin Livingstone was a friend of Sean Yates?

Yates can't say he knew or turned a blind eye or he'd lose his job with SKY.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Even though Yates was a friend of Armstrong's from long ago, would he (Yates) be trusted? - particularly by Bruyneel

Interesting that Roger Hammond mentioned that he saw nothing either, I'm wondering whether they just let Roger do his thing with the Classic races (which are less reliant on doping anyway) - any had there own bunch for the TdF etc?

 

[Benotti69]

Even though Yates was a friend of Armstrong's from long ago, would he (Yates) be trusted? - particularly by Bruyneel

Interesting that Roger Hammond mentioned that he saw nothing either, I'm wondering whether they just let Roger do his thing with the Classic races (which are less reliant on doping anyway) - any had there own bunch for the TdF etc?

Just like Team Sky!

 

[webvan]

So from what I'm reading here Yates is on Betsy's Motoman pictures ? Hadn't recognized him.

Yates is the typical victim/problem with cycling. Like everybody he knew doping was going on but what was he going to do about it? I guess that technically he never saw the Dopestrong shoot up so he can get away with his statement. He really should have said "I had my doubts but never witnessed anything first hand and I needed a job".

As for the transfusions in the bus, Landis says they occurred in 2004, that's the last year he was on the team so he wouldn't know for 2005.

 

[Boeing]

no one in the peloton uses the f word the Sean, not even lance

 

[JimmyFingers]

No, I certainly am not saying Yates was a protagonist. He wasn't mentioned in the USADA docs to my knowledge, and they are pretty comprehensive. But you ARE saying pretty much what I did - Yates should have known, and probably did. That he now professes to "know nothing" stinks, no matter which way I turn it. It smells hypocritical and disingenuous.

Now - slightly OT - all those "rogue" traders? Ask yourself if that situation could be like the omerta in cycling. "Ooooooo, we have a rogue trader! But we know nothing! Nothing!" That happens to be another industry that I have had some contact with, and my opinion there is that they are ALL just as dirty as can be. The rogue traders are scapegoats, or like Ricco, off on some tip of the iceberg. But they aren't far away from the rest of the iceberg!

As for painting Sky any particular color, I've been doing some defending of them around here - although I have also been honest that I am keeping my skepticism alive. If I am guilty of trying to paint them anything, it is the color of innocence. But they keep effing it up. All by their little selves. Imo, Brailsford and Yates did the team no favors with their responses.

My using the example of a rogue trader was to illustrate management don't always know what their employees are up to. My illustration of omerta was more how protected a successful employee will become because of their commercial and so political clout.

And I agree about Sky's clumsiness. My only defence for that is you were doing something wrong you wouldn't make it so obvious. Make no mistake, the peloton knew this was coming, they knew how deep it would cut and how many would be implicated

 

[Benotti69]

So from what I'm reading here Yates is on Betsy's Motoman pictures ? Hadn't recognized him.

Yates is the typical victim/problem with cycling. Like everybody he knew doping was going on but what was he going to do about it? I guess that technically he never saw the Dopestrong shoot up so he can get away with his statement. He really should have said "I had my doubts but never witnessed anything first hand and I needed a job".

As for the transfusions in the bus, Landis says they occurred in 2004, that's the last year he was on the team so he wouldn't know for 2005.

So Yates is friendly with motoman and he ha no idea why or what motoman's connection is with USPS? Nah not buying that. Landis talked about everyone knowing when they had the blood bags.. He talks about nodding to Pereiro about the mark on his arm where he obviously had an infusion and Pereiro smiling. That was 2006.

You also dont get to be a DS of a major team by not knowing the ins and outs of the sport including the dirt. Again not buying Yates story.

More lies from those in the sport.

This is gonna be a whitewash attempt like Festina. That was the past we dont do that anymore blah blah blah.....

 

[coinneach]

you think sky is clean? did you see the TDF this year?

Yep, I saw all 3 grand tours this year: 2 great races, 1 great win.

As for doping or dominance: they all had their moments.

Do I believe? I'm not sure, but I did enjoy all 3 GT's

BTW Ian Stannard is Sean Yeats mark 2..irrespective of any talk on the clinic: that guy totally rocks

 

[Tinman]

I understood Yates did Lance's gardening before Lance pulled him into Discovery in 2005.

Ever wondered why Yates may have a heart condition and has slurred speech? I would like to know what he was like as an early cyclist, you know in the days just before EPO just came on and they took the massive doses...

Ever wondered more about the hypothesis of "chosen teams" by UCI, the end of the Lance era (after his failed comeback) and the building and grooming of Team Sky? The behavior changes we noted in Brad?

And if you want to dig a little more on the peripheries, who is this bloke @censoredcyclist who seems to make a nuisance of himself on twitter being a rabid Lance and British cycling/Sky fanboy, and brazenly expressing support for doping. He's in the story there also somewhere...

Oh and don't forget Yates was at the Linda McCartney racing team for a while...

It's a global network, and its being pried right open. We want the sport back.