Shimano Ultegra WH-6600 10-speed rear wheel to 11-speed

[bladerunner]

I have a Shimano Ultegra WH-6600 10-speed rear wheel. Can it be upgraded to be compatible with Shimano 11-speed cassettes? If so, what is required? Thanks in advance.

 

[King Boonen]

It would need redished and you would have to change the freehub if the new 11 speed freehub are compatible.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I have a Shimano Ultegra WH-6600 10-speed rear wheel. Can it be upgraded to be compatible with Shimano 11-speed cassettes? If so, what is required? Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately it cannot be modified with just a 11s freehub body. shimano has, conveniently for them(more $), made it so no shimano 10s hub, wheel, can be converted with simply a 11s freehub body. There are 'workarounds'. Machining the shoulders of the 10s freehub lower to accept a 11s cogset(taller) but split FH body may result. Wheels Manufacturing makes an 'Accelerator' 11s cogset, modified 10s cogset, that fits onto a 10s FH body. Use 10 of 11 cogs of a 11s cogset. But no, not by swappng FH bodies.

 

[Master50]

I understand the problem to be 2 parts. the freehub must be changed to an 11 speed model and the wheel must be redished to compensate for the change in centre line of the wheel. Other wheels that can accept a Campagnolo freehub swap all that you need to do is change to a campy compatible 11 speed cassette.
From Busted Knuckles post it seems that shimano wheels do not fit the 11 speed freehub body? I have never read this. Leonard Zinn has posted a few articles on this subject over at his web site and veto web site.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

I understand the problem to be 2 parts. the freehub must be changed to an 11 speed model and the wheel must be redished to compensate for the change in centre line of the wheel. Other wheels that can accept a Campagnolo freehub swap all that you need to do is change to a campy compatible 11 speed cassette.
From Busted Knuckles post it seems that shimano wheels do not fit the 11 speed freehub body? I have never read this. Leonard Zinn has posted a few articles on this subject over at his web site and veto web site.

No shimano wheel or hub, 10s, can be converted to 11s with a FH body. They just dont fit. Most others have a compatible FH now...King, WI, Zipp, Fulcrum, DT, even Campagnolo but not shimano.

 

[bladerunner]

Thank you very much for your input Folks. Your help is much appreciated.
I read up on Leonard Zinn's FAQ on 10->11 speed and as he says that all 11-speed cassettes are compatible with each other, I happen to have Campagnolo 10-speed (Neutron) wheels and I believe I can use a 11-speed cassette on those and they will work with my 11-speed Shimano drivetrain. I think that's the easiest way for me although it's a real shame that I cannot use my WH6600 with Shimano 11-speed.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Thank you very much for your input Folks. Your help is much appreciated.
I read up on Leonard Zinn's FAQ on 10->11 speed and as he says that all 11-speed cassettes are compatible with each other, I happen to have Campagnolo 10-speed (Neutron) wheels and I believe I can use a 11-speed cassette on those and they will work with my 11-speed Shimano drivetrain. I think that's the easiest way for me although it's a real shame that I cannot use my WH6600 with Shimano 11-speed.

That is correct..Campagnolo 9s/10s wheels are 11s compatible and yes, shimano made a whole generation of wheels/hubs obsolete with 11s.

 

[avanti]

[quote="Bustedknuckle[/url............. and as he says that all 11-speed cassettes are compatible with each other, .................[/quote]

I read this as Shimano and Campy cassettes being interchangeable? Hard to imagine but great if true.

 

[King Boonen]

[quote="Bustedknuckle[/url............. and as he says that all 11-speed cassettes are compatible with each other, .................

I read this as Shimano and Campy cassettes being interchangeable? Hard to imagine but great if true.[/quote]

On 11-speed they all work with each other. I'm pretty sure the Campag (it's not Campy!!!!) cassette won't fit on your Shimano freehub, but it'll work with the Shimano drivechain.

 

[dsut4392]

I recall reading on Bikerumor.com that a number of companies at TPE were showing 11sp cassettes designed to run on a Shimano 10sp freehub. Can't find the link now, but here is at least one from edco:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/02/02/edc ... s-cycling/
They are still on the expensive side, but may come down over the next year or so. If they don't, you're probably better off selling your 10sp wheels as the premium on these cassettes would add up if you're doing much mileage.
I'm currently running 10 sp 11-25 on my DA 7850 wheels, and am tempted by 11 sp 11-28 for an extra climbing gear without having to sacrifice gear spacing.

 

[Master50]

[quote="Bustedknuckle[/url............. and as he says that all 11-speed cassettes are compatible with each other, .................

I read this as Shimano and Campy cassettes being interchangeable? Hard to imagine but great if true.[/quote]

No they are not interchangeable but there are wheel makers that have freehub bodies for Shimano cassettes and gears and Campagnolo. Many Mavic wheels have a shimano/sram and Campy freehub body options. They may have different way to go 11 speed but 1 option is to change the shimano freehub to Campy and use a campy 11 speed cassette. works with all 11 speed systems now. Zipp also have campy freehub options as do many wheels just not Shimano ones.

 

[avanti]

I figured out from the replies subsequent to my post that "wheels with a Campy 11 speed cassette is interchangeable with a wheel with a Shimano 11 speed cassette".

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

I figured out from the replies subsequent to my post that "wheels with a Campy 11 speed cassette is interchangeable with a wheel with a Shimano 11 speed cassette".

11s spacing on the various manufacturer's cogsets are really, really close together. Much to their chagrin. shimano and spam can go on each others freehub bodies, Campagnolo cannot.

 

[Master50]

Re:

I figured out from the replies subsequent to my post that "wheels with a Campy 11 speed cassette is interchangeable with a wheel with a Shimano 11 speed cassette".

All 11 speed wheels are interchangeable as long as the largest cog is compatible with the rear derrallieur. Campy max cog is 29 and shimano is 28

 

[IrrelevantD]

Re: Re:

I understand the problem to be 2 parts. the freehub must be changed to an 11 speed model and the wheel must be redished to compensate for the change in centre line of the wheel. Other wheels that can accept a Campagnolo freehub swap all that you need to do is change to a campy compatible 11 speed cassette.
From Busted Knuckles post it seems that shimano wheels do not fit the 11 speed freehub body? I have never read this. Leonard Zinn has posted a few articles on this subject over at his web site and veto web site.

No shimano wheel or hub, 10s, can be converted to 11s with a FH body. They just dont fit. Most others have a compatible FH now...King, WI, Zipp, Fulcrum, DT, even Campagnolo but not shimano.

Sorry to revive the old thread, but has anyone actually confirmed that this is not possible?

I know that same level may not work as, for example, Ultegra 6800 now uses the larger axles that were used from the previous generation DA. However, from looking at the exploded view docs from si.shimano.com, it looks like the non-group (WH-RS-21, 31 and 61) wheels use the same, or extremely similar axles, bearings, etc, to the WH-6700 wheelset. Likewise, looking back at the HB-6600 hub, it the current generation 105 hub (HB-5800) looks nearly identical on the EV. They all apear to use the same M10 x 141mm axle, the only real difference I could see would be perhaps the width of the components between the end bolts to keep it at 130mm total width.

While this does not guarantee compatibility, they are still using the same number of splines where the freehub body engages the hub and they appear symetcrical; so unless there was some very subtle change, it may be possible to swap out the hub with a lower model level part, re-dish, and go.

For the relatively low price of a freehub (about 20-something £) to the cost of a new wheel, I have an Rs-31 freehub on order and am going to give it a shot converting my WH-6700. Just wish shipping from the UK to US was quicker. We can't get the parts over here.

 

[avanti]

When switching to 11-speed are a new chain and new chain-rings/cranks required?

 

[IrrelevantD]

Re:

When switching to 11-speed are a new chain and new chain-rings/cranks required?

you *might* be able to get away with keeping your old rings, but almost definitely will need to get a new chain. Tighter spaces between the cassette sprocket mean that you will likely get chain rub on larger sprockets with a 10s chain. That being said, I'm of the mindset that it never hurts to try it and see what happens. If you do, make sure you post your results for others.

 

[Master50]

Re:

When switching to 11-speed are a new chain and new chain-rings/cranks required?

When I converted my Campagnolo 10 speed to 11 the chain does need replacing but the 10 speed rings were pretty compatible with the 11 speed chain. By spec the 11 speed rings are a little thinner than 10 speed, so if you have any issues with he chain getting caught you can just change the rings. The crank arms are the same from 10 to 11.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

When switching to 11-speed are a new chain and new chain-rings/cranks required?

you *might* be able to get away with keeping your old rings, but almost definitely will need to get a new chain. Tighter spaces between the cassette sprocket mean that you will likely get chain rub on larger sprockets with a 10s chain. That being said, I'm of the mindset that it never hurts to try it and see what happens. If you do, make sure you post your results for others.

Its not a "might" that the front rings are compatible it's a certainty that they are, hell you can even use a 9 speed crankset with an 11 speed grouppo, there might be a tiny bit more noise but it's perfectly compatible. You are correct on the chain

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

I understand the problem to be 2 parts. the freehub must be changed to an 11 speed model and the wheel must be redished to compensate for the change in centre line of the wheel. Other wheels that can accept a Campagnolo freehub swap all that you need to do is change to a campy compatible 11 speed cassette.
From Busted Knuckles post it seems that shimano wheels do not fit the 11 speed freehub body? I have never read this. Leonard Zinn has posted a few articles on this subject over at his web site and veto web site.

No shimano wheel or hub, 10s, can be converted to 11s with a FH body. They just dont fit. Most others have a compatible FH now...King, WI, Zipp, Fulcrum, DT, even Campagnolo but not shimano.

Sorry to revive the old thread, but has anyone actually confirmed that this is not possible?

I know that same level may not work as, for example, Ultegra 6800 now uses the larger axles that were used from the previous generation DA. However, from looking at the exploded view docs from si.shimano.com, it looks like the non-group (WH-RS-21, 31 and 61) wheels use the same, or extremely similar axles, bearings, etc, to the WH-6700 wheelset. Likewise, looking back at the HB-6600 hub, it the current generation 105 hub (HB-5800) looks nearly identical on the EV. They all apear to use the same M10 x 141mm axle, the only real difference I could see would be perhaps the width of the components between the end bolts to keep it at 130mm total width.

While this does not guarantee compatibility, they are still using the same number of splines where the freehub body engages the hub and they appear symetcrical; so unless there was some very subtle change, it may be possible to swap out the hub with a lower model level part, re-dish, and go.

For the relatively low price of a freehub (about 20-something £) to the cost of a new wheel, I have an Rs-31 freehub on order and am going to give it a shot converting my WH-6700. Just wish shipping from the UK to US was quicker. We can't get the parts over here.

Sure try it but looking thru the tech docs, 6800 hubs and wheels use a one piece axle like DA and 105(5800) hubs use a stepped axle, not just a simple 1-by1, 141mm, threaded axle.

Yes, the 2 wheels mentioned both seem to use threaded axles tho. Altho different part numbers for the axle and small bits..Maybe if just the FH axle won't work, a WS-31 axle assembly too?

The RH flange is about 1.5-2mm further inboard on 11s stuff..I really doubt but if the FH body is cheap..sure try it and report back.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

When switching to 11-speed are a new chain and new chain-rings/cranks required?

With the highly positional LH shimano shifter, using 10s rings with a 11s system(yes you need to match chain to cogs-11s-11s), you may get some front der rubbing either in lowest gear or highest gear because the 11s rings are closer together(not thinner, just closer together). Not so with Campagnolo with the LH. 'Ratcheting friction' of UltraShift. Powershift(Athena-2010 and later), yes, need 11s spaced CRs..since it is positional also.

 

[IrrelevantD]

Re: Re:

Sorry to revive the old thread, but has anyone actually confirmed that this is not possible?

I know that same level may not work as, for example, Ultegra 6800 now uses the larger axles that were used from the previous generation DA. However, from looking at the exploded view docs from si.shimano.com, it looks like the non-group (WH-RS-21, 31 and 61) wheels use the same, or extremely similar axles, bearings, etc, to the WH-6700 wheelset. Likewise, looking back at the HB-6600 hub, it the current generation 105 hub (HB-5800) looks nearly identical on the EV. They all apear to use the same M10 x 141mm axle, the only real difference I could see would be perhaps the width of the components between the end bolts to keep it at 130mm total width.

While this does not guarantee compatibility, they are still using the same number of splines where the freehub body engages the hub and they appear symetcrical; so unless there was some very subtle change, it may be possible to swap out the hub with a lower model level part, re-dish, and go.

For the relatively low price of a freehub (about 20-something £) to the cost of a new wheel, I have an Rs-31 freehub on order and am going to give it a shot converting my WH-6700. Just wish shipping from the UK to US was quicker. We can't get the parts over here.

Sure try it but looking thru the tech docs, 6800 hubs and wheels use a one piece axle like DA and 105(5800) hubs use a stepped axle, not just a simple 1-by1, 141mm, threaded axle.

Yes, the 2 wheels mentioned both seem to use threaded axles tho. Altho different part numbers for the axle and small bits..Maybe if just the FH axle won't work, a WS-31 axle assembly too?

The RH flange is about 1.5-2mm further inboard on 11s stuff..I really doubt but if the FH body is cheap..sure try it and report back.

Yea, I've rebuilt and replaced the balls in all four hubs for my 6600/Open Pro wheels and my pre built 6700s. I was aware of the change to the larger axle and smaller balls for the 105 and Ultegra when they switched to 11s. But the non-series RS models (especially the RS-61) look to be the spitting image of the WH-6700 wheels, only with 11s compatibility. But, as there are no measurements in the Shimano EV docs, it's really hard to be sure what else has changed.

SJCycles out of UK has freehub bodies for the RS wheels for about £30 ($45 US), which looks much better than a couple hundred for a new set of wheels. Hopefully, at worst I have to grind down the axle spacer that comes with the non-drive side lock ring a mm or two to offset the increased length of the FH, and the obviously required re-dish of the wheel. Will know in a few weeks and will update here, I just wasn't sure if anyone had tried it yet.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Sorry to revive the old thread, but has anyone actually confirmed that this is not possible?

I know that same level may not work as, for example, Ultegra 6800 now uses the larger axles that were used from the previous generation DA. However, from looking at the exploded view docs from si.shimano.com, it looks like the non-group (WH-RS-21, 31 and 61) wheels use the same, or extremely similar axles, bearings, etc, to the WH-6700 wheelset. Likewise, looking back at the HB-6600 hub, it the current generation 105 hub (HB-5800) looks nearly identical on the EV. They all apear to use the same M10 x 141mm axle, the only real difference I could see would be perhaps the width of the components between the end bolts to keep it at 130mm total width.

While this does not guarantee compatibility, they are still using the same number of splines where the freehub body engages the hub and they appear symetcrical; so unless there was some very subtle change, it may be possible to swap out the hub with a lower model level part, re-dish, and go.

For the relatively low price of a freehub (about 20-something £) to the cost of a new wheel, I have an Rs-31 freehub on order and am going to give it a shot converting my WH-6700. Just wish shipping from the UK to US was quicker. We can't get the parts over here.

Sure try it but looking thru the tech docs, 6800 hubs and wheels use a one piece axle like DA and 105(5800) hubs use a stepped axle, not just a simple 1-by1, 141mm, threaded axle.

Yes, the 2 wheels mentioned both seem to use threaded axles tho. Altho different part numbers for the axle and small bits..Maybe if just the FH axle won't work, a WS-31 axle assembly too?

The RH flange is about 1.5-2mm further inboard on 11s stuff..I really doubt but if the FH body is cheap..sure try it and report back.

Yea, I've rebuilt and replaced the balls in all four hubs for my 6600/Open Pro wheels and my pre built 6700s. I was aware of the change to the larger axle and smaller balls for the 105 and Ultegra when they switched to 11s. But the non-series RS models (especially the RS-61) look to be the spitting image of the WH-6700 wheels, only with 11s compatibility. But, as there are no measurements in the Shimano EV docs, it's really hard to be sure what else has changed.

SJCycles out of UK has freehub bodies for the RS wheels for about £30 ($45 US), which looks much better than a couple hundred for a new set of wheels. Hopefully, at worst I have to grind down the axle spacer that comes with the non-drive side lock ring a mm or two to offset the increased length of the FH, and the obviously required re-dish of the wheel. Will know in a few weeks and will update here, I just wasn't sure if anyone had tried it yet.

I find it interesting that every different hub/wheel shimano makes has unique to that hub/wheel, parts.
I had one industry guy describe it as 'designing in triangles'. Design->prototype->manufacture..w/o going outside that model's 'triangle', like talking to the DA or 105 guys, when you design the Ultegra 'thing'.

 

[richwagmn]

Re: Re:

When switching to 11-speed are a new chain and new chain-rings/cranks required?

With the highly positional LH shimano shifter, using 10s rings with a 11s system(yes you need to match chain to cogs-11s-11s), you may get some front der rubbing either in lowest gear or highest gear because the 11s rings are closer together(not thinner, just closer together). Not so with Campagnolo with the LH. 'Ratcheting friction' of UltraShift. Powershift(Athena-2010 and later), yes, need 11s spaced CRs..since it is positional also.

Oh interesting! I have not been able to adjust my 6800 front derailleur in such a way that I won't get rub in either highest or lower gear with my 6700 crankset. I simply couldn't figure out why.