Should Sky have waited when Valverde fell?

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Should Sky have waited?

  • Normally not but since they caused it, yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
Aug 13, 2010
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profff said:
did valverde stop when cadel evans punctured in the vuelta 2010 and the aussie lost incredible amount of time because of neutral assistence not helping him and tv motorcycles being obstacle?

el imbatido won the vuelta by 1min 32 sec, exactly the time cadel lost.
Valverde is not blaming Sky for attacking but for causing the crash.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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as the say in Days of Thunder 'he didn't slam into you, he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you. He rubbed you. And rubbin', son, is racin'

Apportioning blame in a crash is difficult at the best times, claiming it was intentional ridiculous. The race is only a few stages old, plenty of opportunities to make time back, if he wasn't leader there wouldn't be any question of stopping. Plenty of riders have missed out on the chance of victory in a one-day race because of a crash, Valverde can get his revenge over the next few weeks at least.

Anyway he shouldn't blame Sky. Karma caused that crash
 
Tyler'sTwin said:
How is that different from crashing through no fault of your own?
As I alluded to in the post quoted,

• It's early in the race and there is no established leader, let alone a patron, so no overly polite gestures are expected let alone necessary

• Echelons are intended to put pressure on the race. That kind of pressure creates havoc and there will be crashes at times. Valverde is a guy wearing the jersey in week one. Why would they stop for him? The only person I can see garnering any consideration in such a situation is Contador with his clear status as the best stage racer in the peloton, but I would never expect them to wait for him either.

When the race has sorted out into some top contenders in the final week or so, and an unavoidable incident happens, teams should consider waiting. Waiting should be the rarest of occurrences, not something team leaders expect every time there is a problem.
 
Judging from the emotions this accident has caused perhaps the road administration in the Town of Grimstad is onto something. Any acceleration would have to wait until the speedlimit sign allows it.....
 
bobbins said:
If Sky caused the crash, they shouldn't have taken advantage of it.

Valverde should have got on his bike and straight back into the peloton instead of standing around for so long. That's why he lost the time, his own stupidity being stood around waiting rather than getting straight back into the race.
From what I could see it appeared he was making sure his bike was in order and rideable.
 
Apr 11, 2011
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There seems to be some discrepancy in accounts about how Sky actually caused the crash. Perhaps they need to get their stories straight before finding a scapegoat.

In all seriousness it may well be that movement from one or more Sky riders had a domino effect that led to the crash but I find it hard to believe from the pictures that are available that it was some sort of kamikaze movement which is what Unzué seemed to be implying yesterday. Of course it may be a case of lost in translation.
 
red_flanders said:
As I alluded to in the post quoted,

• It's early in the race and there is no established leader, let alone a patron, so no overly polite gestures are expected let alone necessary

• Echelons are intended to put pressure on the race. That kind of pressure creates havoc and there will be crashes at times. Valverde is a guy wearing the jersey in week one. Why would they stop for him? The only person I can see garnering any consideration in such a situation is Contador with his clear status as the best stage racer in the peloton, but I would never expect them to wait for him either.

When the race has sorted out into some top contenders in the final week or so, and an unavoidable incident happens, teams should consider waiting. Waiting should be the rarest of occurrences, not something team leaders expect every time there is a problem.
People here need to delineate between “waiting” and “not attacking”. Sky didn’t need to wait. But they certainly shouldn’t have attacked. This coupled with it wasn’t just one attack. It was a long and concerted effort from the entire team to gain time. Who were they gaining time against if it wasn’t Valverde? I’m actually ok with how it played out with the exception of lying about it post stage. If that was Sky’s tactic then say so. Stop pretending they don’t know they were putting a lot of time into the race leader.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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red_flanders said:
• Echelons are intended to put pressure on the race. That kind of pressure creates havoc and there will be crashes at times. Valverde is a guy wearing the jersey in week one. Why would they stop for him? The only person I can see garnering any consideration in such a situation is Contador with his clear status as the best stage racer in the peloton, but I would never expect them to wait for him either.
No, they are intended to help ride in a cross wind situation, the way you wrote that it reads as if they would do that in a windless day to put pressure on the race...
 
I agree with Hog here. Maybe when radios are banned they can say they had no idea. But for now, it's a BS excuse. Normally when someone goes down, it's just the way it goes. Maybe you're lucky and you have a Tyler Hamilton to convince others to wait, maybe not. Continually attacking is sort of bunk, but at least man up to it.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Who cares if they knew or not? Its a bike race. there was a breakaway up the road they wanted to catch. They certainly wouldn't have known straight away valverde was down and once the attack and chase was on there was certainly not reason to slow it down once they found out, and you can be damn sure that Saxo and Katusha were happy about it.

And at the end of the day Valverde deserved it. Karma...
 
Apr 20, 2012
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JimmyFingers said:
Its a bike race. there was a breakaway up the road they wanted to catch.
Come on, you can't be serious about that. The were SIX minutes down with 30K to go. Are you really suggesting they wanted to wheel in the breakaway or are you just having fun.

And at the end of the day Valverde deserved it. Karma...
Like Michael Rogers for his past?

Bad argument.
 
May 21, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Come on, you can't be serious about that. The were SIX minutes down with 30K to go. Are you really suggesting they wanted to wheel in the breakaway or are you just having fun.

Like Michael Rogers for his past?

Bad argument.
Strangly enough the whole world isnt clinic obsessed,Valverde had it coming for other missdeeds
 
this is the same as chaingate... it okay to do but if the only reason you are winning a race is because you made your most significant time is gains by attacking during a mechanical then you suck and everyone should hate you.

there is a lot of bellyaching about wheelsucking on these boards and i think this kind of thing is way worse than wheelsucking to victory
 
Apr 11, 2011
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thehog said:
Who were they gaining time against if it wasn’t Valverde? I’m actually ok with how it played out with the exception of lying about it post stage. If that was Sky’s tactic then say so. Stop pretending they don’t know they were putting a lot of time into the race leader.
How about trying to put other riders under pressure? It didn't have to be just about distancing those already in trouble but to try to drop others.

Rodriguez is also conveniently saying that he didn't know Valverde was down for some time and that once he did he took Katusha off the front. Froome claimed he didn't know about Valverde until after the race finished. Perhaps the DS's didn't inform their teams very quickly and perhaps some riders rarely listen to their radios relying on their road captains?
 
Apr 20, 2012
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User Guide said:
Strangly enough the whole world isnt clinic obsessed,Valverde had it coming for other missdeeds
Enlighten me. What has Valverde done?

And really, I am no Valverde fan. Make no mistake. Don't like the guy one bit, from the start, at Kelme.
 
Jaunty Monty said:
How about trying to put other riders under pressure? It didn't have to be just about distancing those already in trouble but to try to drop others.

Rodriguez is also conveniently saying that he didn't know Valverde was down for some time and that once he did he took Katusha off the front. Froome claimed he didn't know about Valverde until after the race finished. Perhaps the DS's didn't inform their teams very quickly and perhaps some riders rarely listen to their radios relying on their road captains?
They didn’t know for a good 20 minutes? They didn’t happen to notice that he red jersey wasn’t in the peloton? Really?

For all the talk about race radios being about safety they hardly helped did they?

Sky knew exactly what they were doing and that’s ok. They just shouldn’t pretend they didn’t know.

Besides Sky were informed within the peloton. If they continue to refute this fact then they’re stupid.

It won’t amount to much all this talk. They did what they did. But you know what’s going to happen. Sky have a strong team and they can look after themselves. But each and every time Contador attacks Froome is left alone. No one will work for him now if he gets dropped.
 
May 2, 2010
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thehog said:
They didn’t know for a good 20 minutes? They didn’t happen to notice that he red jersey wasn’t in the peloton? Really?

For all the talk about race radios being about safety they hardly helped did they?

Sky knew exactly what they were doing and that’s ok. They just shouldn’t pretend they didn’t know.

Besides Sky were informed within the peloton. If they continue to refute this fact then they’re stupid.

It won’t amount to much all this talk. They did what they did. But you know what’s going to happen. Sky have a strong team and they can look after themselves. But each and every time Contador attacks Froome is left alone. No one will work for him now if he gets dropped.
Looking forward to it !
 
May 2, 2010
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thehog said:
People here need to delineate between “waiting” and “not attacking”. Sky didn’t need to wait. But they certainly shouldn’t have attacked. This coupled with it wasn’t just one attack. It was a long and concerted effort from the entire team to gain time. Who were they gaining time against if it wasn’t Valverde? I’m actually ok with how it played out with the exception of lying about it post stage. If that was Sky’s tactic then say so. Stop pretending they don’t know they were putting a lot of time into the race leader.
You're absolutely right here and I couldn't agree more with you.
 
Apr 11, 2011
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They knew or at least some of them knew if only because Intxausti told them. But that doesn't mean the reason they were hammering it was to distance Valverde. They were trying to drop and then distance as many riders as they could.
 
May 2, 2010
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Jaunty Monty said:
They knew or at least some of them knew if only because Intxausti told them. But that doesn't mean the reason they were hammering it was to distance Valverde. They were trying to drop and then distance as many riders as they could.
... which looks even worse.
 
Jul 9, 2012
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Don't be late Pedro said:
I have read the link and it does mention the puncture. Millar was a great climber so I would be surprised if he could not make the time back unless he was either attacked or could not get a wheel quickly. Any idea of what happened?

The events are going to be skewed depending on who you ask but I think from Millar's face, when he is told about the attack, you can tell he has no idea of it and hence I doubt he had any time checks.



Thanks. Delgado made the 89 Tour the classic it is imo.
From memory, they attacked Millar when he punctured and got clear. Two of Millar's Peugeot team mates then made an effort to get up to Millar to help him, just as they were getting close a level crossing barrier conveniently came down to stop them and delay them by 2 or 3 minutes... but no train actually passed through whilst the barrier was shut :rolleyes: The motorcyle carrying the time checks then conveniently went missing :rolleyes: and the Spaniards basically disrupted the chasing group of Millar with (Rodriguez from memory) giving up his 2nd place by refusing to push on with Millar to ensure a Spaniard won.

Don't get me wrong, I've no quibble with Spaniards working together to ensure Millar didn't win but Millar was well & truly stitched up that day.

Seems like only yesterday :D
 
thehog said:
They didn’t know for a good 20 minutes? They didn’t happen to notice that he red jersey wasn’t in the peloton? Really?

.
Which one? The first, second, third or fourth?

Seems like half of Movistar didn't realise either - took them ages to get back and help Valverde.

It may have taken a fair while to realise. To deny it at the finish though was BS, agreed.
 
Oct 31, 2009
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If Froome had Fallen and Moviestar were on the Front they would all of sat up to wait oh Yeah of Course they Would. Whole things a Joke lol.
 
King Of The Wolds said:
Seems like half of Movistar didn't realise either - took them ages to get back and help Valverde.
Get your facts straight.

Cobo, Intxausti and Lastras were the only that were not affected by the crash. :rolleyes:
Erviti (five stitches) Moreno, Quintana y Rojas hit the tarmac, while Valverde and Castroviejo had to stop.
 

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