simoni >>> basso

[Ryo Hazuki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDcfXw-gP5Y

simoni is angry at the finish. he tells media that basso asked him money to not drop him (simoni) and let him win the stage. simoni was so upset by that that he said to **** himself and he don't need him. basos then goes of to dropping him and winning the stage. he tells this at the reporters then basso comes in saying he should not say those things because they are not true. then simoni says, then tell them how much you asked me. basso looks down as the liar that he is and simoni goes off saying. I don;t need you, you will see what happen to you. and boom 2 months later puerto and basso is done

to me always a showcase of how much a sack of **** basos is. he already lies when he breathes. simoni was much more a cyclist and a hero

 

[Parrulo]

Point of this thread? None

Fact 1: Simoni is just as much of a doper as basso
Fact 2: Simoni won the giro twice by 7 minutes and never complained about his own performance

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

if you watched giro 2006 and think simoni was just as bad a doper as basso then never mind

 

[Michele]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chtP68xl-8I

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I thought you approve of vino/kolobnev deal. What's the point of this thread?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

if you watched giro 2006 and think simoni was just as bad a doper as basso then never mind

Guess you just missed the 2003 Giro. You should watch some re-runs man. Classic stuff.

2001 was also a blast.

 

[Gregga]

T.Hamilton's book to shows how worried were the riders about the police in the 2002 Giro, see the sophisticated logistic he had to imagine (ie renting a flat in Monaco) to get just one BB and you'll understand what an advantage it was for the italian riders to be in their home country to blood dope. The italians won from 1997 to 2007 for one main reason : it's much more easy to dope in your ows country. That's true for Basso as well as for Simoni, Garzelli or Savoldelli.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I thought you approve of vino/kolobnev deal. What's the point of this thread?

I guess you failed to understand what simoni said and basso said

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I guess you failed to understand what simoni said and basso said

No, i don't.

 

[staubsauger]

But looking and comparing Basso - Simoni - Garzelli I have to say it seems obviously to me that Basso really had some sort of fake career and never was that talented and classy most people think. I was just thinking about this this midday in the bus.

Okay, he was junior worl champion in 1999. But while with Fassa Bortolo and mst likely already on a solid programm in 2002 and 2003 he was just able to hang on in the mountains and got 11th and 7th. Suddenly after his transfer to Riis - and we all know Riis and his methods - he suddenly was able to climb with Armstrong. One year later he suddenly was able to tt and in 2006 he was an absolutely robot in both climbing and tt. I'm not saying Simoni or Garzelli were clean, but I guess they were more naturally gifted.

After his return his climbing level was just mediocore and he wasn't able to tt anymore at all. Then, even if we suggest he rode a bit under his level in the Giro 2009 (his first gt after suspension) and improved at the Vuelta 2009. But at the Giro 2010 suddenly (after Pellizotti, Liquigas originally leader, was banned) his level stept up again very obviously. Okay he mainly won that race because of the strongest team, and weak / not wel peaked contrahents (Guess it would've had another call if Ricco and Pellizotti would've been there, but that's pure speculation). But still his climbing at that race all of a sudden came back very close to his 2004/2005 level. 1 year later, altough he had a crash, he was a non factor in the Tour. And last year he was totally done and a shadow of himself. And during that massive decrease he still managed to have a very ominous shape increase from beeing nothing the entire spring season, to beeing mediocore and able to fight for a Top5 spot in the Giro.

Looking at Garzelli for example he always have been there since his Switzerland victory in 1998. And altough he was also punished for doping and had a magnificant decrease in performance after 2003 (Which might have to do with the fact, that Garzeli really shut down his doping after the death of Pantani just as German cycling commentator Ulli Jansch assumes), he still was the same rider and still was able to perform on a steady decent level.

So in fact the great career of Basso seems very fake to me, just like the one of Chiapucci (Not that obviously of course)

And: Doping is one thing. That's sadly part of the game, so I've accepted it, as long as it's not going to crazy. But seling victories is truly honorless. For me Basso, as well as Vino are nothing but ugly criminals and I can't give them any credit or honour. I'm happy if Basso dissapears from this sport. His cheating was way to far and way to obvious, but after his ban he just got away with it with a smile. Tell that Riccardo Ricco ....

 

[Wallace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDcfXw-gP5Y

simoni is angry at the finish. he tells media that basso asked him money to not drop him (simoni) and let him win the stage. simoni was so upset by that that he said to **** himself and he don't need him. basos then goes of to dropping him and winning the stage. he tells this at the reporters then basso comes in saying he should not say those things because they are not true. then simoni says, then tell them how much you asked me. basso looks down as the liar that he is and simoni goes off saying. I don;t need you, you will see what happen to you. and boom 2 months later puerto and basso is done

to me always a showcase of how much a sack of **** basos is. he already lies when he breathes. simoni was much more a cyclist and a hero

I think you're missing a bit of the picture here: Basso asked Simoni not to drop him on the descent before the final climb--because all the drugs in the world can't up your ability to go downhill fast. Simoni always was an excellent descender, which may be the one thing in cycling now that can be called a natural talent. Then when they got to the final climb, Basso went all "extra-terrestrial" on Simoni, who reasonably assumed that Basso would gift him the stage or at least not embarrass him after he slowed down to a Basso-like crawl on the descent. It was classless of Basso and Simoni was right to be furious, but it doesn't say anything about either rider's cleanliness--Simoni had already conceded the Giro, but he should have been allowed to win the stage. A deal's a deal.

 

[deValtos]

I'm not saying Simoni or Garzelli were clean, but I guess they were more naturally gifted.

It's amazing how people on this forum can always tell who the most "naturally gifted" are ...

If you want to keep it simple all we can say is Basso, Simoni, Garzelli all doped and were good climbers and then by your definition all had fake careers.

I doubt anyone here thinks was basso was clean pre06 but I don't see why you highlight the transition from 2003TDF to 2004TDF, he was young then and that progression can be seen in clean and doped riders. Pointing to his TT improvement is all you need.

Also his 2010 climbing was nowhere near his 04/05, not even close.

 

[Samson777]

I think you're missing a bit of the picture here: Basso asked Simoni not to drop him on the descent before the final climb--because all the drugs in the world can't up your ability to go downhill fast.

Should anyone doubt if this should be true, take a look on a guy, who have all the drugs in the world, and still can't go downhill; Captain Wiggins!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think you're missing a bit of the picture here: Basso asked Simoni not to drop him on the descent before the final climb--because all the drugs in the world can't up your ability to go downhill fast. Simoni always was an excellent descender, which may be the one thing in cycling now that can be called a natural talent. Then when they got to the final climb, Basso went all "extra-terrestrial" on Simoni, who reasonably assumed that Basso would gift him the stage or at least not embarrass him after he slowed down to a Basso-like crawl on the descent. It was classless of Basso and Simoni was right to be furious, but it doesn't say anything about either rider's cleanliness--Simoni had already conceded the Giro, but he should have been allowed to win the stage. A deal's a deal.

Thank you. Io non parlo Italiano, ma Io voglio a parlo Italiano.

 

[ElChingon]

I thought you approve of vino/kolobnev deal. What's the point of this thread?

I'm wondering if the Basso & Simoni Deal is <<< or >>> than the Cunego & Simoni Deal (in 2004)
Possibly it could be ===, or maybe !!!===?

 

[SafeBet]

Thank you. Io non parlo Italiano, ma Io voglio a parlo Italiano.

Well you've got a long way to go then


Seriously, Gibo was a legend.

 

[Michele]

A legend?
Not so sure about that.

He's from Trentino and as we says in Italy, people from the mountains tend to say things straight which can be good but can also make you look as an as+shole sometimes.

About that exact incident, Im totally on Simoni's side as Basso was from another planet that year.

 

[laziali]

Che palle! Quello che un post inutile.

 

[Netserk]

I don't have that much against Basso offering the stage for money, but because Simoni waited for him down the descent (In an understanding that he'd get the stage?), it was not fair what Basso did.

 

[airstream]

Italian press assumed Simoni was a Fuentes client in 2006 yet. Apparently he became one of many lucky guys whose doping evidence was found in Ufe's home and then was destroyed or classified. All the things until 2010 at least is insane doping era. Very likely nothing changed later too, but UCI saves their money and our relative tranquility with a bigger privity and quivering.