Smaller Bunches than Before on the Via Roma

[Echoes]

It seems pretty interesting that the peloton than contending for the win in Milan-Sanremo has never included more than 26 riders in the past 6 editions. Even at the foot of the Poggio, the peloton is considerably reduced. Maniè or no Maniè. Rain or no rain, it seems that we will never see a 62-man peloton packed together to contend for the win on the Via Roma, as it was back in 2004.

Any hope that in a near future, attackers can control this hilly classic again? I think the attackers should first of all believe in it. I think it's laughable to see Wellens pacing Greipel to bring him back to the head of the peloton, knowing that he would drop on the Poggio anyway. Next, the race needs more "big engines", since Cancellara is past his prime and can no longer harden the race like before. If prime Dumoulin or Malori target it in the future, why not? For the rest, I'm not entitled to speak on this section.

I've made a list of all post-war bunch sprints at Milan-Sanremo (consider a bunch as 16+man group):

1950: 53 riders (winner Bartali)
1954: 60 riders (winner Van Steenbergen)
1958: 69 riders (winner Van Looy)
1959: 90 riders (winner Poblet)
Poggio added after this edition
1980: 30 riders (winner Gavazzi P)
Cipressa added in 1982
Between 1987 and 1993 finish on the Corso Cavaloti
1997: 40 riders (winner Zabel)
1998: 18 riders (winner Zabel)
2000: 37 riders (winner Zabel)
Turchino removed after this edition
2001: 19 riders (winner Zabel)
2002: 44 riders (winner Cipollini)
Turchino re-added after this edition
2004: 62 riders (winner Freire)
2005: 39 riders (winner Petacchi)
2007: 28 riders (winner Freire)
Maniè added after this edition + finish in Lungomare
2009: 34 riders (winner Cavendish)
2010: 25 riders (winner Freire)
Route cut short in 2013 from Cogoleto to Sanremo without Turchino and Maniè due to weather conditions.
Maniè removed in 2014
2014: 25 riders (winner Kristoff)
Via Roma returned after that edition
2015: 26 riders (winner Degenkolb)

In 63 years only 16 editions of Milan Sanremo finished in a bunch sprint.

If we have a look at the final result, we may notice that most of the top26 riders were expected and rather hard men, except a couple of sprinters (Bouhanni, Cimolai, ...) and the two surprising CCC. If Gallopin can top10, and Wellens top15, it shows that the race was pretty hard.

1. 191 DEGENKOLB John GER TGA TEAM GIANT - ALPECIN 6.46'16" 0'00"
2. 1 KRISTOFF Alexander NO KAT TEAM KATUSHA 6.46'16" 0'00"
3. 171 MATTHEWS Michael AUS OGE ORICA GREENEDGE 6.46'16" 0'00"
4. 231 SAGAN Peter SVK TCS TINKOFF SAXO 6.46'16" 0'00"
5. 132 BONIFAZIO Niccolo' ITA LAM LAMPRE - MERIDA 6.46'16" 0'00"
6. 81 BOUHANNI Nacer FRA COF COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS 6.46'16" 0'00"
7. 241 CANCELLARA Fabian SUI TFR TREK FACTORY RACING 6.46'16" 0'00"
8. 134 CIMOLAI Davide ITA LAM LAMPRE - MERIDA 6.46'16" 0'00"
9. 143 GALLOPIN Tony FRA LTS LOTTO SOUDAL 6.46'16" 0'00"
10. 162 BOASSON HAGEN Edvald NO MTN MTN - QHUBEKA 6.46'16" 0'00"
11. 145 ROELANDTS Jurgen BEL LTS LOTTO SOUDAL 6.46'16" 0'00"
12. 235 BRESCHEL Matti DEN TCS TINKOFF SAXO 6.46'16" 0'00"
13. 221 SWIFT Ben GBR SKY TEAM SKY 6.46'16" 0'00"
14. 186 LANGEVELD Sebastian NED TCG TEAM CANNONDALE - GARMIN 6.46'16" 0'00"
15. 148 WELLENS Tim BEL LTS LOTTO SOUDAL 6.46'16" 0'00"
16. 71 BOLE Grega SLO CCC CCC SPRANDI POLKOWICE 6.46'16" 0'00"
17. 206 MARTENS Paul GER TLJ TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO 6.46'16" 0'00"
18. 45 COLBRELLI Sonny ITA BAR BARDIANI CSF 6.46'16" 0'00"
19. 57 VAN AVERMAET Greg BEL BMC BMC RACING TEAM 6.46'16" 0'00"
20. 151 VALVERDE BELMONTE Aleja ESP MOV MOVISTAR TEAM 6.46'16" 0'00"
21. 37 SCARPONI Michele ITA AST ASTANA PRO TEAM 6.46'16" 0'00"
22. 77 PATERSKI Maciej POL CCC CCC SPRANDI POLKOWICE 6.46'16" 0'00"
23. 121 CHAVANEL Sylvain FRA IAM IAM CYCLING 6.46'16" 0'00"
24. 153 IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI Jon ESP MOV MOVISTAR TEAM 6.46'16" 0'00"
25. 195 DUMOULIN Tom NED TGA TEAM GIANT - ALPECIN 6.46'16" 0'00"
26. 244 FELLINE Fabio ITA TFR TREK FACTORY RACING 6.46'16" 0'00"

Back in 2004, however:

1 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank 7.11.23 (40.892 km/h)
2 Erik Zabel (Ger) T-Mobile Team
3 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone
4 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
5 Max Van Heeswijk (Hol) US Postal Service presented by Berry Floor
6 Igor Astarloa (Spa) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone
7 Romans Vainsteins (Lat) Lampre
8 Paolo Bettini (Ita) Quick.Step-Davitamon
9 Miguel Angel Martin Perdiguero (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir
10 Peter Van Petegem (Bel) Lotto-Domo
11 Erik Dekker (Hol) Rabobank
12 Mirko Celestino (Ita) Saeco
13 George Hincapie (USA) US Postal Service presented by Berry Floor
14 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) FDJeux.com
15 Josu Silloniz Aresti (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
16 Fabio Baldato (Ita) Alessio-Bianchi
17 Guido Trenti (USA) Fassa Bortolo
18 Marcus Zberg (Swi) Gerolsteiner
19 Cristian Moreni (Ita) Alessio-Bianchi
20 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
21 Andreas Klier (Ger) T-Mobile Team
22 Michele Gobbi (Ita) De Nardi
23 Inigo Landaluze (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
24 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Landbouwkrediet-Colnago
25 Allan Davis (Aus) Liberty Seguros
26 Oskar Camenzind (Swi) Phonak Hearing Systems
27 Martin Elmiger (Swi) Phonak Hearing Systems
28 Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Gerolsteiner
29 Serhiy Honchar (Ukr) De Nardi
30 Axel Merckx (Bel) Lotto-Domo
31 Mickael Pichon (Fra) Brioches La Boulangere
32 Danilo Hondo (Ger) Gerolsteiner
33 Peter Wrolich (Aut) Gerolsteiner
34 Rolf Aldag (Ger) T-Mobile Team
35 Fabio Sacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
36 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC
37 Yuriy Krivtsov (Ukr) Ag2R Prevoyance
38 Pablo Lastras Garcia (Spa) Illes Balears-Banesto
39 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
40 Franck Renier (Fra) Brioches La Boulangere
41 Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spa) US Postal Service presented by Berry Floor
42 Anthony Geslin (Fra) Brioches La Boulangere
43 Laurent Brochard (Fra) Ag2R Prevoyance
44 Pedro Horrillo Munoz (Spa) Quick.Step-Davitamon
45 Sergio Barbero (Ita) Lampre
46 Franco Pellizotti (Ita) Alessio-Bianchi
47 Guido Trentin (Ita) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone
48 Rafael Casero Moreno (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir
49 Giuliano Figueras (Ita) Ceramiche Panaria-Margres
50 Robert Hunter (RSA) Rabobank
51 Lorenzo Bernucci (Ita) Landbouwkrediet-Colnago
52 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Brioches La Boulangere
53 Bingen Fernandez Bustinza (Spa) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone
54 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) Saeco
55 Gabriele Balducci (Ita) Saeco
56 Simone Masciarelli (Ita) Vini Caldirola-Nobili Rubinetterie
57 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak Hearing Systems
58 Steffen Wesemann (Ger) T-Mobile Team
59 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team
60 Jérome Pineau (Fra) Brioches La Boulangere
61 Angel Vicioso Arcos (Spa) Liberty Seguros
62 Marco Velo (Ita) Fassa Bortolo

 

[Netserk]

I think it'd be more fair to count Kreuziger, Paolini, Thomas, Haas and Nocentini as part of the group too.

 

[roundabout]

in 13 previous editions without La Manie only 3 successful attacks. Only 1 of them on the Poggio

But if Vegni wants to make it a sprinter race, he is more than welcome to it. Good luck selling more than 1 hour of coverage though.

 

[Echoes]

Both Bettini and Pozzato attacked/countered on the Poggio.

 

[roundabout]

I consider Pozzato a last km attack. I think his group did get caught, but than the brains in the bunch froze when he countered. But I have to rewatch that finish.

 

[fauniera]

But if Vegni wants to make it a sprinter race, he is more than welcome to it. Good luck selling more than 1 hour of coverage though.

He wants to: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/milan-s ... says-vegni (How can i link that properly?)

No need to watch this anymore.

 

[fauniera]

Re:

I consider Pozzato a last km attack. I think his group did get caught, but than the brains in the bunch froze when he countered. But I have to rewatch that finish.

It certainly was a last km attack. Ballan and Pippo didn't get caught though, Pippo launched his attack just before they were caught. Since he had wheelsucked Ballan all the way he was fresh and managed to hold of the group.

 

[Echoes]

Pozzato countered an attack by Ballan on the Poggio and Ballan only dropped because Pozzato wheelsucked him, as usual but the decisive attack by Ballan was on the Poggio.

Besides, 13 editions before the Maniè is 1995 to 2007. 5 attackers won.

 

[Kwibus]

But if Vegni wants to make it a sprinter race, he is more than welcome to it. Good luck selling more than 1 hour of coverage though.

He wants to: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/milan-s ... says-vegni (How can i link that properly?)

No need to watch this anymore.

No talk about Le Manie though. It's an important climb as it is able half the bunch at times. Less domestiques is better for the attackers on the Poggio.
When we had Le Manie we had small groups sprinting for the finish and bigger groups. It shouldn't be a race for the sprinters. It should be a race between attackers and sprinters......

 

[fauniera]

I agree but: "There’s no intention to add the La Manie or the Pompeiana climbs, we’ll stick with the classic route and the finish on the Via Roma.”

 

[May0maniac]

I agree but: "There’s no intention to add the La Manie or the Pompeiana climbs, we’ll stick with the classic route and the finish on the Via Roma.”[/quote ]
Yesterday he said exactly the same on live TV, well another overrated race where you don't have to see more than the 30min, just like AGR and FW.

 

[OlavEH]

I agree but: "There’s no intention to add the La Manie or the Pompeiana climbs, we’ll stick with the classic route and the finish on the Via Roma.”

Who said this?

Edit:

Ok, I see now that it was Vegni. Rather schizofrenic of him. First they want to add Pompeiana. Now they don't. And neither re-add Le Manie.

Hope this won't be the case. At least they could bring back Le Manie next year. And I would have liked to see what happened if they replaced Ciperessa with Pompeiana. I'm pretty sure this would create more action and attacks before Poggio.

 

[May0maniac]

I agree but: "There’s no intention to add the La Manie or the Pompeiana climbs, we’ll stick with the classic route and the finish on the Via Roma.”

Who said this?

Vegni himself

 

[burning]

The beginning of bunch sprints relate to %50, it is not related to moving finish to Via Roma as you can see in this graph:

I think adding Le Manie is imperative to tip the scales through attackers. IIRC, Acquarone said he definitely does not want sprint finishes but it looks like RCS changed their opinion and they are happy with current situation.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

The beginning of bunch sprints relate to %50, it is not related to moving finish to Via Roma as you can see in this graph:
I think adding Le Manie is imperative to tip the scales through attackers. IIRC, Acquarone said he definitely does not want sprint finishes but it looks like RCS changed their opinion and they are happy with current situation.

You need to resize the picture or just post the link
https://unavueltamejor.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/grupos-msr-english-backup-copia.png
I have to agree, Le Manie is a must and maybe they could add another climb before Cipressa or instead of one of the easy Capi, it's just a suggestion, but i think that we can all agree on the fact that the race should be harder before Cipressa.

 

[jens_attacks]

not me i think if you do the capis and cipressa at 40 kmh average,all the sprinters will be dead on poggio. only a headwind could save them there

i would love to see statistics about weather in sanremo for every edition. for sure with sunny sky, you would have again 60 riders to sprint on sunday

i firmly believe that if a strong team rides full gas cipressa and there is no headwind on the last 2 kms of poggio, you will rarely have a sprint on via roma

 

[burning]

Re:

not me i think if you do the capis and cipressa at 40 kmh average,all the sprinters will be dead on poggio. only a headwind could save them there

i would love to see statistics about weather in sanremo for every edition. for sure with sunny sky, you would have again 60 riders to sprint on sunday

i firmly believe that if a strong team rides full gas cipressa and there is no headwind on the last 2 kms of poggio, you will rarely have a sprint on via roma

Sadly, there is no more Colombo's in current peloton, it is necessary to adjust race to tip the scales IMO.

 

[Netserk]

Add Civezza, no Pompeiana nor Manie. Should make for a very nice final.

 

[IndianCyclist]

The problem is also the condition of the riders. The sprinters are already in top form. The attackers whether GT, Ardennes or Cobbled riders are in the process of peaking. San Remo is the main goal for sprinters whereas for the attackers it is not. For the attackers it is more of a lucky draw. If they lose, it is not the end of the world.
The problem is if the same route is repeated year after year, the response also becomes formulaic depending on the strength of the riders. The best attraction for fans is to keep the suspense, the result unpredictable such that the winner can be any rider sprinters or attackers. Adding or deleting climbs on the route is one way the organizers can introduce unpredictability without making it too difficult or too easy for the sprinters as the weather is not in their hands. When to announce the actual route, location of the finish line is also in their hands. I am disappointed with Vegni's statement.

 

[fauniera]

Re:

Add Civezza, no Pompeiana nor Manie. Should make for a very nice final.

I like that idea. But if Vegni doesn't want to include a new climb, what about climbing Cipressa from Piani Paorelli. That's much steeper than the approach from San Lorenzo al Mare. Won't happen though, as the sprinters wouldn't like it.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re: Re:

Add Civezza, no Pompeiana nor Manie. Should make for a very nice final.

I like that idea. But if Vegni doesn't want to include a new climb, what about climbing Cipressa from Piani Paorelli. That's much steeper than the approach from San Lorenzo al Mare. Won't happen though, as the sprinters wouldn't like it.

If thet changed the aproach to the top of climbs every so often, it would make it more interesting. Personally I think Le Manie should be reinstated.

They could get rid of the Cipressa and add the Pompeiana in if they really wanted it.

 

[luckyboy]

Le Manie > Capi > Cipressa > Poggio > Via Roma would be the best way for the race to go imo

Yesterday he said exactly the same on live TV, well another overrated race where you don't have to see more than the 30min, just like AGR and FW.

If you are watching the last 30 minutes of AGR and Fleche you are wasting 25 minutes of your life