So when did Alberto start doping?

[Polish]

We have discussed the notion that Jan Ullrich and Lance Armstrong started using PEDs as teenagers - so what do you all think about Alberto

When do you think Alberto started doping?

According to Wiki, he started competing at 15 years old for Real Velo Club Portillo in Madrid.

Then at 16 Alberto dropped out of High School to race for Manolo Saiz and his Youth Team Iberdrola-loinaz.

Alberto turned Pro at 21 and raced for Saiz, Bruyneel, Martinelli, and Riis.

Or maybe Alberto is leading the New Generation of Clean Riders?

 

[hrotha]

My personal opinion is: as an amateur, with Iberdrola (ONCE's feeder team).

 

[Barrus]

Keep this thread clean, civil and on-topic. I do not want to wake up tomorrow morning with a mess. So do not attack Polish for his perceived opinions on other riders. Do not discuss those other riders and do not attack each other on any other level than what that person posts

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

If we're going to have a legit conversation, then I would agree with Hrotha. If you look at Once and Saiz, it seems very logical with Iberdrola-loinaz he was exposed to the practice, and logically followed everyone else, at least to some extent.

Just like I said in the LA thread of the same question, I don't define "how much" nor equate this to being instantly doped to the gills. Just answering "when."

 

[Neworld]

Agreed, its more like when did he begin the upslope on the 'thin edge of the wedge'?

I have always wondered about his developmental venous anomoly diagnosis. Was it really a Cavernoma in 2004? Was it more like a cerebral DVT from either too high a HCT or autologous BD? Until his MR images are released we may never know. Being unbiased though his presentation fits a DVA, but then so did the 'tainted meat' explanation match his positive test.

"But on May 12, 2004, during the Vuelta a Asturias, Contador experienced bleeding in his brain caused by a congenital condition known as cerebral cavernoma. The incident led to a crash and nearly ended his life. "

Didn't Stu O'Grady have a cerebral hemorrhage? I know he was mugged in 1999 or something and had a bleed, but later...I am not sure. If my memory is right he crashed and bled.

NW

 

[red_flanders]

I don't know.

Sometime before he won the TdF.

 

[pistolero]

Maybe 5 or 6 years later than dopestrong,who cares?they all dope,the difference is their doctors and of course how much can you pay to godfather pat mcquaid

 

[Havetts]

I suppose when he joined Saiz's team.

 

[BotanyBay]

If he was hooked-up with Saiz at 16, and dropped out of school, then I'm willing to guess at age 16. If a director is willing to work with you as a dropout (or cause you TO dropout), then he's probably willing to also put you on the picante sauce.

 

[The Hitch]

Tour de France 2010 stage 17.

 

[warmfuzzies]

If an athlete is serious enough to drop out of high school, he's serious enough to eat the steak.

 

[El Pistolero]

If an athlete is serious enough to drop out of high school, he's serious enough to eat the steak.

A lot of cyclists, or any other top athlete drops out of school early. That really isn't an argument you know.

 

[brianf7]

OK we all have opinions but there is no evidence so stay quiet untill there is because all these suspitions do is increace their guard. give them enough rope to hang them selves. like the mouse in the mouse trap keep nibbling a little every day untill they get a big bite and bang it gone.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I would be willing to bet on 16 when he started racing for Saiz.
I would also bet that this thread has to go down as a big fail for B. Polisher who I am sure was hoping to stir up a lot more controversy than this, but it turns out his theory of everyone in the clinic only thinking that HWSNBN is the only one who dopes is as big a fail as the rest of his theories.

 

[Anonymous]

We have discussed the notion that Jan Ullrich and Lance Armstrong started using PEDs as teenagers - so what do you all think about Alberto

When do you think Alberto started doping?

According to Wiki, he started competing at 15 years old for Real Velo Club Portillo in Madrid.

Then at 16 Alberto dropped out of High School to race for Manolo Saiz and his Youth Team Iberdrola-loinaz.

Alberto turned Pro at 21 and raced for Saiz, Bruyneel, Martinelli, and Riis.

Or maybe Alberto is leading the New Generation of Clean Riders?

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[scribe]

Keep this thread clean, civil and on-topic. I do not want to wake up tomorrow morning with a mess. So do not attack Polish for his perceived opinions on other riders. Do not discuss those other riders and do not attack each other on any other level than what that person posts

This is actually a great post. Love the preemptive quality. haha

 

[scribe]

I am going to go with 3-4 years old, considering the curve of these developments in sports.

 

[**Uru**]

My guess is that he started in 2007. At least that is when he got on the good stuff.

 

[centri]

A lot of cyclists, or any other top athlete drops out of school early. That really isn't an argument you know.

Just for perspective, staying in HS until 16 was only mandatory in Spain as of last year (2010). Kids had the option of leaving to work at 14.

 

[Porphyry]

I have always wondered about his developmental venous anomoly diagnosis. Was it really a Cavernoma in 2004?

NW

Yes, it was a cavernoma. Medical information is available.

 

[Porphyry]

A lot of cyclists, or any other top athlete drops out of school early. That really isn't an argument you know.

Agreed. The same is true for gifted musicians, actors, ballet dancers, etc. It's quite common to leave a traditional educational setting and go for an alternative where the gift can be nurtured.

 

[Maxiton]

My personal opinion is: as an amateur, with Iberdrola (ONCE's feeder team).

Agreed. It's more obvious in Contador's case than just about anyone else. Gifted, prodigious young rider + mentor Saiz = plain as the nose on your face.

Agreed, its more like when did he begin the upslope on the 'thin edge of the wedge'?

I have always wondered about his developmental venous anomoly diagnosis. Was it really a Cavernoma in 2004? Was it more like a cerebral DVT from either too high a HCT or autologous BD? Until his MR images are released we may never know. Being unbiased though his presentation fits a DVA, but then so did the 'tainted meat' explanation match his positive test.

"But on May 12, 2004, during the Vuelta a Asturias, Contador experienced bleeding in his brain caused by a congenital condition known as cerebral cavernoma. The incident led to a crash and nearly ended his life. "

Didn't Stu O'Grady have a cerebral hemorrhage? I know he was mugged in 1999 or something and had a bleed, but later...I am not sure. If my memory is right he crashed and bled.

NW

Interesting.

If he was hooked-up with Saiz at 16, and dropped out of school, then I'm willing to guess at age 16. If a director is willing to work with you as a dropout (or cause you TO dropout), then he's probably willing to also put you on the picante sauce.

Nice pic. And so appropriate.

I am going to go with 3-4 years old, considering the curve of these developments in sports.

Sounds about right.

 

[Paco_P]

If he was hooked-up with Saiz at 16, and dropped out of school, then I'm willing to guess at age 16. If a director is willing to work with you as a dropout (or cause you TO dropout), then he's probably willing to also put you on the picante sauce.

Just so you can keep your stereotypes nation appropriate: almost no one in Spain likes anything remotely picante on or in their food.

 

[Roninho]

For the people who said he started when he joined Saiz: Who would pay his dope? He was 16 at the time and an amateur so with no or little money. I don't see what use it would be for Saiz to pay the dope for 16 year old kids who won't be pro in the next 5-6 years anyway (if they ever become one).

 

[Paco_P]

It's like with Lance - the desire to be competetive again after a near death ailment scuttled any doubts that may have remained about the virtues of assisting oneself in any way.