Speedplay's Legal Goon Squad

[Black Dog]

Why on earth are you taking this to the 'streets', and not taking a legal path. I'll bet there are more than a few attorneys that would take this case on contingency basis and it wouldn't cost you a $dime. To limit yourself to bike forums, as if that will solve your problems with SP, is silly.

Unless of course you don't have as strong a case as these posts imply.

There is no payday for winning a case against SP. What lawyer is going to do this for free? He would have to sue speedplay and if he is sued he is on his own. What amount of damages would he claim? Would it even pay for the lawyers lunch?

Oh yea, the owner of speedplay called me too and told me some information that I will not share but makes his case look really bad. I would love to tell you all but you just have to trust me that it is true and you should no longer believe him....(Sarcasm).

What information? Why won't SP share it with everyone? I agree that there are always 2 sides to a story but until SP chimes in there is only one side.

 

[Elagabalus]

Why on earth are you taking this to the 'streets', and not taking a legal path. I'll bet there are more than a few attorneys that would take this case on contingency basis and it wouldn't cost you a $dime. To limit yourself to bike forums, as if that will solve your problems with SP, is silly.

Unless of course you don't have as strong a case as these posts imply.

I am deeply perplexed by your attitude. I like my SP pedals too, however, I don't feel the need to pledge fealty to SP. IMO, they are treating Frikinspit unfairly, end of. YMMV

One more thing, as an LBS owner would say you sell more SP pedals or rebuild kits?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

There is no payday for winning a case against SP. What lawyer is going to do this for free? He would have to sue speedplay and if he is sued he is on his own. What amount of damages would he claim? Would it even pay for the lawyers lunch?

Oh yea, the owner of speedplay called me too and told me some information that I will not share but makes his case look really bad. I would love to tell you all but you just have to trust me that it is true and you should no longer believe him....(Sarcasm).

What information? Why won't SP share it with everyone? I agree that there are always 2 sides to a story but until SP chimes in there is only one side.

You need to do some research as to how contingency cases work.

Until SP 'chimes in' there is only one side? YGBSM. Why do you think you or anybody else has the right to know SP's side? Make your decision in the marketplace with your $. To continue to play this on bike forums is non productive.

It's pretty obvious to me that if the OP had a viable legal case, that's the way that this would go. Not saying he doesn't but I'm surprised it's being litigated on bike forums.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I am deeply perplexed by your attitude. I like my SP pedals too, however, I don't feel the need to pledge fealty to SP. IMO, they are treating Frikinspit unfairly, end of. YMMV

One more thing, as an LBS owner would say you sell more SP pedals or rebuild kits?

More SP pedals but we stock rebuild kits. Don't rebuild much because they don't seem to need rebuilding including parts that much. Quick, overhaul, clean, lube, regularly, is all they seem to need.

My attitude is based on the pedal system. I also know that I don't know the whole story with SP and the gent that is posting all over. Until the entire, objectively reported story shows up somewhere, I'll continue to sell and service SP. I won't be passing judgment on either side because of what I read on some bike forums from identified or anonymous, emotional or name calling(greedplay-cute) posters.

 

[forty four]

If my flagship product were a pedal with no platform and a silly float philosophy, I wouldn't want my customers to be trying out other pedals, either.

tried most all of them far and away the best all round road pedal available.
oh and that silly float thing solved serious knee problems for me. i have 30000+ miles on them seriously you dont know what your talking about.

 

[forty four]

Speedplay. Money wasted for me. Back on Look. Yeah I can see why they need to bully: no platform, not durable, bad product.

looks suck for me sold the quick. too heavy compared no float(if any its under tork) poor clearance no dual sided entry. as for platform thats a common misconception about speedplay look at the shoe mounted cleat they actually havejust as much contact as anything else and for the aero people they have a small profile better than other systems.
fabian uses the ti model though he is over the weight limit and very strong but i guess so are the pedals. i have crashed on mine many times badly there fine all i do is grease bearings here and there. also theyll soon have the best power meter as well.

 

[Black Dog]

You need to do some research as to how contingency cases work.

Until SP 'chimes in' there is only one side? YGBSM. Why do you think you or anybody else has the right to know SP's side? Make your decision in the marketplace with your $. To continue to play this on bike forums is non productive.

It's pretty obvious to me that if the OP had a viable legal case, that's the way that this would go. Not saying he doesn't but I'm surprised it's being litigated on bike forums.

Fair enough, I may not know all about how contingency cases in the US work. However, your comment about the owner of SP calling you and giving you special insight into the matter and not mentioning what that info is, was really a low and underhanded tactic. It is like being accused of something bad without ever know what the actual accusations are or who is making them. It is a bold claim with no evidence to back it up. Come out and tell us why he is on the wrong.

Why would SP not share their side if they are so in the right why not explain their position? I may not have a right to know but I have a right to form a tentative opinion based what I read. I have read SP's letter to the OP and his responses.

To think that being certain you are right is the only metric for deciding to pursue the matter in the courts is very naive position. The amount of time and effort involved may be more than he can give. Is it worth it to spend years in court to prove that SP may be acting like bullies?

Just because the pedals are a good product is not the issue and should not be used as an excuse to ignore a potential wrong doing on the part of the company. Some people care about the behaviour of the companies that they buy from or might buy from and they inform their choices with that information.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Fair enough, I may not know all about how contingency cases in the US work. However, your comment about the owner of SP calling you and giving you special insight into the matter and not mentioning what that info is, was really a low and underhanded tactic. It is like being accused of something bad without ever know what the actual accusations are or who is making them. It is a bold claim with no evidence to back it up. Come out and tell us why he is on the wrong.

Why would SP not share their side if they are so in the right why not explain their position? I may not have a right to know but I have a right to form a tentative opinion based what I read. I have read SP's letter to the OP and his responses.

To think that being certain you are right is the only metric for deciding to pursue the matter in the courts is very naive position. The amount of time and effort involved may be more than he can give. Is it worth it to spend years in court to prove that SP may be acting like bullies?

Just because the pedals are a good product is not the issue and should not be used as an excuse to ignore a potential wrong doing on the part of the company. Some people care about the behaviour of the companies that they buy from or might buy from and they inform their choices with that information.

"Low"? "Underhanded" Tactics"?

I think that speaks volumes about the 'competition' not being played out in these forums, Who's 'winning' and 'losing' this debate...

NOT a competition, but it IS being litigated here and on other forums.

I sent him an email voicing support for his product. He called and thanked me and said there were issues and problems with the products this guy was selling(specifically the bowtie bolts), they were in contact with him and he was not going to get involved with this 'show' on these forums.

You nor I know the whole story and as I have mentioned, until I read a complete, objective report of the whole deal, I will not 'assume' that SP is wrong or right and the same about the huy selling the stuff.

Automatically catagorizing SP as a 'bad' company based on the info here is foolhardly.

BUT if you and others think SP is a bad company, vote with your $CDN and don't buy them. If a bike shop, don't sell them. But using bike forums as a viable source of complete information on this matter is nutz.

 

[Black Dog]

"Low"? "Underhanded" Tactics"?

I think that speaks volumes about the 'competition' not being played out in these forums, Who's 'winning' and 'losing' this debate...

NOT a competition, but it IS being litigated here and on other forums.

I sent him an email voicing support for his product. He called and thanked me and said there were issues and problems with the products this guy was selling(specifically the bowtie bolts), they were in contact with him and he was not going to get involved with this 'show' on these forums.

You nor I know the whole story and as I have mentioned, until I read a complete, objective report of the whole deal, I will not 'assume' that SP is wrong or right and the same about the huy selling the stuff.

Automatically catagorizing SP as a 'bad' company based on the info here is foolhardly.

BUT if you and others think SP is a bad company, vote with your $CDN and don't buy them. If a bike shop, don't sell them. But using bike forums as a viable source of complete information on this matter is nutz.

Well, thanks for passing along the info SP gave you. I still think that making an accusation without detail or evidence is underhanded. I am sorry if it upset you for me to say so. Just imagine if someone had done the same to you. I am not looking to attack you nor do I have anything against you. I know that we do not know everything here. However, SP's letter stands as do the simple facts that the bearings he uses are commercially available and not different than the bearings that SP uses. If there was an issue with the bolts then SP should have said so explicitly, but that was not the intent of the letter. SP should still make it's position clear and back up their position with some evidence that supports their claims against the OP. Let them post on their website. Give us a reason to believe that they are not bullying this guy to protect their aftermarket sales of rebuild kits. I know they don't have to do this, if they think that this issue spilling out over the net will not effect their sales then they can remain silent forever.

I do agree with you that this will never be resolved in this venue but getting the genie back in the bottle is difficult.

 

[frikinspit]

If there was an issue with the bolts then SP should have said so.

The bowtie bolts are commercially available as well. Grainger, McMaster Carr, Tacoma Screw, Fasteners Express, Fastenal all carry these items. Fasteners Express sells the aluminum ones.

I have always listed that the 7075-T6 Aluminum bolts are 530 mPa (tensile strength). Stainless and Furnace Black Steel are 900 mPa. Grade 5 Titanium is 880 mPa. And always stated 'Use-At-Your-Own-Risk'.

So what is the issue? Safety? What about carbon fiber chain rings? Carbon fiber bottle cage bolts. I have had 2 SLR saddle rails break on me. I have had a Spinergy Rev X front wheel delaminate causing me to crash. I had an old Zipp 440 literally melt on me during a long downhill decent. I have had a Time Stiletto fork crack. I have raced for over 15 years now and have over 150,000 miles logged and so I have gone through a lot more stuff than your average rider.

Selle Italia promptly sent me a replacement twice. Time sent me a replacement fork even though the cracked fork was over 5 years old. Zipp and Spinergly both offered me a couple hundred dollars off a new wheelset (no thank you). No replacement.

The cycling industry is full of 'dangerous stuff'. People drill out stems, cranks, etc... People use carbon shifter clamps. and on and on..... All of which are just as 'dangerous' if not more so than alloy bowtie bolts.

As stated earlier this all started when I sold rebuild kits and replacement bolts. I then posted instructions. I received the letter from SP. I then deleted my post along with a short description why. Was my intent to hurt SP? No. My only agenda was to let people know what happened and why. The truth. Obviously just 'my-side-of-the-story'. How many people here post someone else's side of the story?

Why is it being debated here? Isn't a cycling forum a good place to discuss cycling related issues? People ask questions. Others answer. Then other speculate. This is the nature of a public cycling forum.

Should it be debated in court? What is there to debate? Legally there is no issue on either side. This case would be thrown out long before it ever even had a chance to get to trial.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[forty four]

is this guy still offering the rebuilds? or did speedpaly scare him off? i have two pair i would like to rebuild.

 

[frikinspit]

is this guy still offering the rebuilds? or did speedpaly scare him off? i have two pair i would like to rebuild.

I sell all the items needed for rebuild including bolts/screws. They are just listed individually on eBay under the same screen name. No reference to SP. In the industrial category. You can also find these items at any industrial hardware supplier. As stated before the items needed are:

2 each - HK1010 Needle Bearings. Measurements: OD=14mm BORE=10mm WIDTH=10mm.

2 each - Bearing 136 also known as 686z, 686zz, 686 z, 686 zz. Measurements: OD=13mm BORE=6mm WIDTH=5mm

2 each - Bearing 137 also known as 137z, 137zz, mr137, mr137z, mr137zz, mr 137, mr 137 z, mr 137 zz. Measurements: OD=13mm BORE=7mm WIDTH =4mm

2 each - Inner Retaining Ring BORE=1/2" WIDTH=0.03"

2 each - Rubber O-Ring. ID=5/16" OD=7/16" WIDTH=1/16"

Bolt/screw size is:

Bowtie Screws - M4 x 0.7 x 17mm recessed flat head. 17mm is the total length of the screw top-to-bottom. 16mm is much easier to find and there should be no problems using the shorter screws for this application. Some flat head screws have a head that is too tall and can protrude from the top of the bowtie. Make sure you get low head screws.

Spindle Screws - M4 x 0.7 x 8mm button head. 8mm is the length of the threads below the head.

 

[Jagers]

After reading this thread (as well as the one referenced on Weight Weenies) and considering Speedplays position on the subject wouldn't their a similar issue of concern on Speedplays part to the following Ebay listing?!?

Pedal parts.