Spoilers

[Netserk]

No one is causing a fit over spoilers. We try to establish and strengthen a pro-social norm.

It's not causing a fit if one reminds someone in the train that they are sitting in a quiet zone while their phone makes a noise. We try to do so politely, but if someone insists that they are not to blame for making noise there, it's needed that one firmly repeats what is proper conduct and what is not.

 

[RedheadDane]

No one is causing a fit over spoilers. We try to establish and strengthen a pro-social norm.

It's not causing a fit if one reminds someone in the train that they are sitting in a quiet zone while their phone makes a noise. We try to do so politely, but if someone insists that they are not to blame for making noise there, it's needed that one firmly repeats what is proper conduct and what is not.

I'd say creating a whole new thread about something that's basically a non-issue is at least verging on causing a fit.
I think we can all agree to at least do our best to try and avoid "spoiling" stuff for others, but if (when) someone slips up, just... move on.

As for making a noise in the quiet zone: Well, if a person hasn't seen the sign indicating it's a quiet zone, surely they'll quickly apologise and be more quiet. If not, well, then said person is just an ***! And I honestly doubt anyone around here is deliberately spoiling stuff for others.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

You just refuse to get the point, don't you? You cannot compare a drama, or a movie, or a book, or any sort of fictional content, with real-life!

I can, have, and will. If you are unable to see the validity of the analogy, that is not my concern.
You have not explained why there need be any difference in the viewer's experience of watch delayed rather than live, or why you think that tere is any reason for broadcasters to make highlights or replay of races available if your contention is as absolute as you seem to be saying.

I'd say creating a whole new thread about something that's basically a non-issue is at least verging on causing a fit.
I think we can all agree to at least do our best to try and avoid "spoiling" stuff for others, but if (when) someone slips up, just... move on.

As for making a noise in the quiet zone: Well, if a person hasn't seen the sign indicating it's a quiet zone, surely they'll quickly apologise and be more quiet. If not, well, then said person is just an ***! And I honestly doubt anyone around here is deliberately spoiling stuff for others.

You could just move on, or you could , as I am suggesting here, ask them to remove the spoiler, or someone else (an admin) to move it if they won't or are not available to do so.

Please explain why this is a bad idea. Who loses out or misses anything by virtue of people taking this simple step for the benefit of others?

And please do not accuse me of behaviour "verging on causing a fit": you are the one who has been argumentative about this.

 

[RedheadDane]

You have not explained why there need be any difference in the viewer's experience of watch delayed rather than live, or why you think that tere is any reason for broadcasters to make highlights or replay of races available if your contention is as absolute as you seem to be saying.

For me the difference is that I know it's not live. And highlights are nice, because they enable you to watch the important bits again!

You could just move on, or you could , as I am suggesting here, ask them to remove the spoiler, or someone else (an admin) to move it if they won't or are not available to do so.

I've been saying the whole time, that the thing to do is:

1: Remove the spoiler.
2: Move on.
Never just moving on without removing the "spoiler".
Sure, we can agree to do our best to avoid them, but when they happen - and they will happen - just... point out the mistake; most likely it'll be corrected and all'll be good.

And please do not accuse me of behaviour "verging on causing a fit": you are the one who has been argumentative about this.

But can we agree that it's not a big deal if/when someone accidentally makes "spoilery" posts?

 

[Netserk]

surely they'll quickly apologise and be more quiet.

And so should anyone who posts spoilers.

 

[RedheadDane]

And so should anyone who posts spoilers.

Well, yeah...

Accidentally posting "spoilers" = making noise in a quiet zone because you haven't seen the sign indicating it's a quiet zone.
Unfortunately, there are people who just don't give a *** about quiet zones (or non-smoke areas, which I'd say is worse...), and will just continue deliberately making noise (smoke). I have yet to see anyone deliberately posting "spoilers."

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

For me the difference is that I know it's not live. And highlights are nice, because they enable you to watch the important bits again!

So long as you are talking 'for you', that's fine, but that is rather different from your earlier "I don't understand how it can be enjoyable to watch a race if it isn't live." I not only understand how it is possible to enjoy it that way, but often do so, because of obligations or convenience, and I am sure many others do too.
One can know that something is not live, but watch it as if live.

I've been saying the whole time, that the thing to do is:

1: Remove the spoiler.
2: Move on.
Never just moving on without removing the "spoiler".
Sure, we can agree to do our best to avoid them, but when they happen - and they will happen - just... point out the mistake; most likely it'll be corrected and all'll be good.

Which is exactly what I have been advocating and seeking agreement on as a principle. But people won't remove it if it is not brought to their attention.

But can we agree that it's not a big deal if/when someone accidentally makes "spoilery" posts?

Absolutely, no-one has suggested that it is grounds for an attack on a contributor, just a gentle tap on the shoulder and a polite request.

 

[RedheadDane]

Which is exactly what I have been advocating and seeking agreement on as a principle. But people won't remove it if it is not brought to their attention.

Of course not! But between the "spoilery" post being made, the mistake being brought to attention, and the post being removed/edited to include "spoilers" quite a few people might accidentally have seen it.

Absolutely, no-one has suggested that it is grounds for an attack on a contributor, just a gentle tap on the shoulder and a polite request.

And those have already been happening without the need for creating a whole new thread.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Of course not! But between the "spoilery" post being made, the mistake being brought to attention, and the post being removed/edited to include "spoilers" quite a few people might accidentally have seen it.

And the more readers are aware that it is OK to request of the poster or an admin that they intervene, the sooner it is acted on and the fewer people suffer from the spoiler.

And those have already been happening without the need for creating a whole new thread.

Because it happens unseen to most, we don't know how often it has occurred, and others may not have been aware that drawing people's attention to their error is something they can/should do. And maybe having a thread and establishing the principle will mean that more people are ready and willing to be the necessary shoulder-tapper.

 

[RedheadDane]

And the more readers are aware that it is OK to request of the poster or an admin that they intervene, the sooner it is acted on and the fewer people suffer from the spoiler.


Because it happens unseen to most, we don't know how often it has occurred, and others may not have been aware that drawing people's attention to their error is something they can/should do. And maybe having a thread and establishing the principle will mean that more people are ready and willing to be the necessary shoulder-tapper.

I thought people already knew that it's okay to point out those mistake. Especially since around 90% of them are of the "Whoops! Wrong thread..." nature.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I suspect that very few do, maybe more will now.

I don't think it is necessarily "wrong thread" most often, but observation/speculation. This week we have had "will this result in a solo French winner like PN just has?" in the TA thread, and, in the TA thread when there was speculation about whether Evenepoel's climbing would be good enough to win PN one year, the response "Did you see the mountain that Roglic won on today?"

 

[King Boonen]

Mod hat on:


Hi all, just a comment from the mods on this. We're not going to start monitoring race threads and cleaning out spoilers for other races. This would literally be a full time job for many races and we are volunteers. We can edit/delete posts that are reported, but we're not online 24/7 and chances are we're only going to get to those reports long after the races are over. This would require that people alert us to these posts and a lot of the time people don't actually report things, they just complain in the thread.

I will also point out that we are cycling fans too, who may be avoiding a particular race thread/result in an attempt to watch it later. We're not going to ruin our enjoyment of races by seeking out the spoilers.

People can of course agree not to post spoilers, use tags etc. but the chances of every user knowing and adhering to this are probably small. The simplest solution is, if you don't want to find out a race result before you have had chance to watch it, don't go on a forum specifically implemented to discuss those results, in many cases in real time. Or take your chances and hope you don't see anything.


Cheers,

KB.

 

[tobydawq]

You just refuse to get the point, don't you? You cannot compare a drama, or a movie, or a book, or any sort of fictional content, with real-life!

Whoa, I think you're completely alone with that opinion on this forum.

Obviously, it's the drama of the races that attract us and watching without knowing how a race unfolded is completely equivalent to watching a race live.

Your only object with watching a cycling race must be knowing the result, but the rest of us are also interested to see how the race unfolds, how can that be even a little difficult to grasp?

 

[RedheadDane]

Whoa, I think you're completely alone with that opinion on this forum.

Obviously, it's the drama of the races that attract us and watching without knowing how a race unfolded is completely equivalent to watching a race live.

Your only object with watching a cycling race must be knowing the result, but the rest of us are also interested to see how the race unfolds, how can that be even a little difficult to grasp?

What the *** are you talking about? I do want to see the race unfold, in real time! I want to enjoy racing while it's happening, not several hours later.
Once it's over... what's the point? You cannot live life on delay.

I just have very little patience with people who complain about "spoilers". Surely, it's understandable that most people want to watch - and talk about - races while they're happening. And when there are multiple races going on at the same time, discussions are - mostly accidentally - gonna drift.

 

[tobydawq]

What the *** are you talking about? I do want to see the race unfold, in real time! I want to enjoy racing while it's happening, not several hours later.
Once it's over... what's the point? You cannot live life on delay.

Oh my God, yeah it was a real puzzle what I meant. If one is for some reason prevented from watching live, then the exact same experience can be had watching it later, if the result is not known. Obviously I would prefer to watch it live too but fortunately I do sometimes have other things to do.

 

[RedheadDane]

Oh my God, yeah it was a real puzzle what I meant. If one is for some reason prevented from watching live, then the exact same experience can be had watching it later, if the result is not known. Obviously I would prefer to watch it live too but fortunately I do sometimes have other things to do.

Not for me...
But you made it sound like I only watch races to get to the result in the end.

 

[tobydawq]

Not for me...
But you made it sound like I only watch races to get to the result in the end.

Yes, otherwise, why all this unwillingness of watching the race later (IF prevented in the first place)? I just can't understand it.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes, otherwise, why all this unwillingness of watching the race later (IF prevented in the first place)? I just can't understand it.

Because I wanna live life in the moment, not on delay.

I want to watch all the drama - and all the non-drama, MSR right now isn't exactly high drama - live! Once it's not live it's just... too late for me.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Mod hat on:


Hi all, just a comment from the mods on this. We're not going to start monitoring race threads and cleaning out spoilers for other races. This would literally be a full time job for many races and we are volunteers. We can edit/delete posts that are reported, but we're not online 24/7 and chances are we're only going to get to those reports long after the races are over. This would require that people alert us to these posts and a lot of the time people don't actually report things, they just complain in the thread.

I will also point out that we are cycling fans too, who may be avoiding a particular race thread/result in an attempt to watch it later. We're not going to ruin our enjoyment of races by seeking out the spoilers.

People can of course agree not to post spoilers, use tags etc. but the chances of every user knowing and adhering to this are probably small. The simplest solution is, if you don't want to find out a race result before you have had chance to watch it, don't go on a forum specifically implemented to discuss those results, in many cases in real time. Or take your chances and hope you don't see anything.


Cheers,

KB.

Nobody is expecting monitoring of all threads in real time; only that you (collectively) would be responsive if someone hits the report button and says "This post reveals the result (or a key event) in another race today. I have asked the poster to hide the info in spoiler tags, but they haven't (maybe they are offline). Please could you preserve the later enjoyment of race A by those following Race B by putting the result in spoilers. Thanks"

"we are volunteers.. we're not online 24/7 and chances are we're only going to get to those reports long after the races are over."
So the system won't be foolproof. But some spoilers will be prevented if there is willingness to do this. By the following day, yeah, the point is moot.

"This would require that people alert us to these posts and a lot of the time people don't actually report things, they just complain in the thread."
And the point of this thread is to establish that it is OK to report it. I hope it has.

 

[tobydawq]

Because I wanna live life in the moment, not on delay.

I want to watch all the drama - and all the non-drama, MSR right now isn't exactly high drama - live! Once it's not live it's just... too late for me.

But it isn't life for us, it's entertainment, a show.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Because I wanna live life in the moment, not on delay.

I want to watch all the drama - and all the non-drama, MSR right now isn't exactly high drama - live! Once it's not live it's just... too late for me.

We can't tell you that anything other than live should be of interest to you, but please recognise that that places you in a small minority, and that for the majority of us, watching in ignorance is watching "as live" and that if we have other obligations and interests, it is that or nothing.

But I am intrigued; If you had an important event this afternoon, would you:

• seek out the result of MSR as soon as possible,
• read the result when convenient,
• read reports of the race and try to reconstruct from that an understanding of what had happened,
• read the result and then watch from the Cipressa onwards later
• avoid hearing the result and watch from Cipressa onwards later
• consider that this race is of no interest or significance to you?

 

[RedheadDane]

But it isn't life for us, it's entertainment, a show.

It's entertainment that happens in real life, only once.

 

[tobydawq]

It's entertainment that happens in real life, only once.

I think this discussion is pointless.

 

[RedheadDane]

I think this discussion is pointless.

Maybe...

As I mentioned - in an edit - earlier; I just have very little patience for people who complain about "spoilers". Surely, you can understand that:

1: Most people actually do prefer to watch - and discus - races in real time.
2: When people discus races, sometimes, accidentally, discussions are gonna drift.

Of course, I'll try to remember to use "spoiler"-tags, but excuse me if my first thought when I discus anything is what's happning at the moment, and for assuming that most people watch races - if not live - then at least in order.

 

[tobydawq]

Maybe...

As I mentioned - in an edit - earlier; I just have very little patience for people who complain about "spoilers". Surely, you can understand that:

1: Most people actually do prefer to watch - and discus - races in real time.
2: When people discus races, sometimes, accidentally, discussions are gonna drift.

Of course, I'll try to remember to use "spoiler"-tags, but excuse me if my first thought when I discus anything is what's happning at the moment, and for assuming that most people watch races - if not live - then at least in order.

I don't care about that either, I just wouldn't visit the forum, but there is quite a distance to not being able to comprehend why anybody would ever want to watch a race after it has taken place.