Sprint victories vs other victories

[Fernandez]

Hey guys, how much value do you think a sprint victorie has compare with any other kind of victorie?
For example, Id say that Tim Wellens victorie yesterday was as much value as 4 or 5 sprint victories like Greiples today.

 

[SeriousSam]

Depends on the circumstances, but I don't generally assign a lot of value to victories coming of breaks that are allowed to go in a GT. On the other hand, sprint victories are the most banal victories there are, in the sense that sprinters can more reliably win than every other type of rider, devaluing their wins as well.

The grandest GT stage victories are summit finishes where the winner puts the entire peloton to the sword.

 

[Breh]

Wellens was allowed to win yesterday. Greipel wasn't.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Depends on the circumstances, but I don't generally assign a lot of value to victories coming of breaks that are allowed to go in a GT. On the other hand, sprint victories are the most banal victories there are, in the sense that sprinters can more reliably win than every other type of rider, devaluing their wins as well.

The grandest GT stage victories are summit finishes where the winner puts the entire peloton to the sword.

Pretty sure the grandest are when the winner puts the entire peloton to the sword before the last climb.

 

[Fernandez]

What Im saying is I dont give a sh... about sprint victories. Ok, they are way spectacular, but in terms of value I´d put Wellens or Ulissis victories above of a number of sprint victories.

 

[Fernandez]

In my opinion, they get much more recognition and money than they really deserve.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Sprint finishes usually give the win to the fastest and smartest guy of the bunch. Mountain stages in these days are mostly won by some random breakaway guy ignored by the GC teams - basically everyone can win a mountain stage. High-end sprint finishes in Grand Tours are for the world's elite sprinters only, not more then a handful of riders are skilled and brave enough to win one of those.

So it's quite a clear decision for me.

 

[DBotero]

Hey guys, how much value do you think a sprint victorie has compare with any other kind of victorie?
For example, Id say that Tim Wellens victorie yesterday was as much value as 4 or 5 sprint victories like Greiples today.

Nah.I liked Wellens winning but you got to consider that he wasn't chased hard by the peloton at all.You chosen the wrong sprint example because this one was rather entertaining.Both wins were on par for me and i don't care much about sprinters.

I think the sprinters are getting too much hate here and i don't see the reason behind it.

 

[Fernandez]

Re:

Sprint finishes usually give the win to the fastest and smartest guy of the bunch. Mountain stages in these days are mostly won by some random breakaway guy ignored by the GC teams - basically everyone can win a mountain stage. High-end sprint finishes in Grand Tours are for the world's elite sprinters only, not more then a handful of riders are skilled and brave enough to win one of those.

So it's quite a clear decision for me.

A sprint victorie is a matter of a one minute effort meanwhile a mountain victorie is usually a matter of a long or very long effort. A sprinter is a guy who is hidden in the peloton for a entire race and then makes a single effort at the end. It doesnt mean nothing for me.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

Sprint finishes usually give the win to the fastest and smartest guy of the bunch. Mountain stages in these days are mostly won by some random breakaway guy ignored by the GC teams - basically everyone can win a mountain stage. High-end sprint finishes in Grand Tours are for the world's elite sprinters only, not more then a handful of riders are skilled and brave enough to win one of those.

So it's quite a clear decision for me.

A sprint victorie is a matter of a one minute effort meanwhile a mountain victorie is usually a matter of a long or very long effort. A sprinter is a guy who is hidden in the peloton for a entire race and then makes a single effort at the end. It doesnt mean nothing for me.

You make it seem like a sprinter was given a tap on the shoulder to wake up 200 metres before the finish line.
Consider that a sprinter a) has ridden the same distance as everyone else; and b) they are navigating their way to the front in a very chaotic finish.
To me, this year's Giro is a testament to the beauty of a bunch sprint after 5 hours of racing.
No crashes while putting it all on the line at the end of a very fast race.

 

[Vroome.exe]

Greipel stage win > 5 Wellens stage wins.
He was gifted a stage yesterday.

 

[gunara]

I only enjoy about 10% of sprint stages, but I never devalue the victory. It's just lack of drama, the abundance of them, and its usual meaninglessness in the larger picture - all thanks to pro cycling that we know, its racing format and everything - that make me care less about them, not the value of winning, it must be really hard to be world class in such a nut specialized job like sprinting.

 

[ice&fire]

Not all sprint victories are the same. There's a big difference between big bunch train driven flat sprints like Cavendish and Kittel use to win and more demanding and less controlled sprints with a reduced peloton like Greipel's in Benevento two days ago or this one by Degenkolb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqXAoE7pRDM

I undestand the hate for the first kind. Those riders should be locked in the track. Their fans could watch them sprint every few laps while confortably seating in the stands.

 

[Fernandez]

Re: Re:

Sprint finishes usually give the win to the fastest and smartest guy of the bunch. Mountain stages in these days are mostly won by some random breakaway guy ignored by the GC teams - basically everyone can win a mountain stage. High-end sprint finishes in Grand Tours are for the world's elite sprinters only, not more then a handful of riders are skilled and brave enough to win one of those.

So it's quite a clear decision for me.

A sprint victorie is a matter of a one minute effort meanwhile a mountain victorie is usually a matter of a long or very long effort. A sprinter is a guy who is hidden in the peloton for a entire race and then makes a single effort at the end. It doesnt mean nothing for me.

You make it seem like a sprinter was given a tap on the shoulder to wake up 200 metres before the finish line.
Consider that a sprinter a) has ridden the same distance as everyone else; and b) they are navigating their way to the front in a very chaotic finish.
To me, this year's Giro is a testament to the beauty of a bunch sprint after 5 hours of racing.
No crashes while putting it all on the line at the end of a very fast race.

Of course sprint victories are valuables, but not at the same level as breakaway, ITT or mountain victories. I´d take Wellens or Ulissis victories over than Kittels and Greipels together. And we are not talking about winning in Alpe d´Huez like Pinot did last year. That means at least 10 sprint victories.

 

[King Boonen]

A win is a win.

 

[Red Rick]

Cmon people, there's a reason that the Scheldeprijs is the most important, most watched and most anticipated race day of the year.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

Greipel stage win > 5 Wellens stage wins.
He was gifted a stage yesterday.

Exactly. There's a difference between forcing the enemy to concede defeat and being allowed to win because some of your superiors tolerate it. Some of those stage race break wins would never occur if it were a one-day race. Those victories are devalued.

 

[Jspear]

The greatest victories are those that keep me entertained for at least 50 K. Spring Classics, some mountain stages, and a flat stage once in a blue moon. Then there is just good victories which have to keep me entertained for at least 20-25 K. A good mountain stage can provide this entertainment.

These Giro sprints haven't been to bad. The last 5 K have been kinda fun.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You could assign value to wins based on how many opportunities a given rider has to win in the year. A sprinter has more opportunities to win a race than a pure goat, therefore the value of each victory is less by comparison because a multi-col odyssey victory like, say, Nieve in Rifugio Gardeccia, is one of maybe 5-10 race days in the year that a rider will take on (few of which will be as hard as a Giro queen stage), whereas sprinters can take on 40 or even 50 stages that could end in sprints (most won't of course, but it's theoretically possible).

The other value is related to that particular race FOR that type of rider. A GT stage is a high profile race, but a GT stage for many riders is part of a tilt at their season's overall goal; a GT stage for a sprinter is another stage win, just in a slightly bigger race. There are dozens of puncheur finishes in the year, but winning on the Mur de Huy means more than them because it's the most important Murito of the year. Likewise, for a sprinter, the Champs Elysées is more important than any other Tour de France stage (notwithstanding that you must make it to the end to get there of course).

However, sprinters don't deserve the opportunity to fight for the win unless they've had to do some work to deserve it. I don't mind if they survive some obstacles or the race is hard and burns people off, if you've made it to the end you deserve the right to fight it out for the win. What I don't like are the total gift days, when organizers almost go "well, let's have a day for the sprinters" and just lazily drape a race parcours over some featureless roads.

 

[Brullnux]

Depends on the circumstances. Cavendish's win on the Champ d'Elysees in 2009 ranks higher than the Kittel wins earlier in the Giro, and Wellens' win ranks lower than Ulissi's, or any real mountain stages. If a rider smashes the opposition completely and utterly Cav-style, then it sticks in the memory. Greipel did something similar two days ago, but not to the same extent. Kittel does it a bit, but never seems to go full out. Wellens' victory was nice but he was let go by the peloton and it was a pretty meh stage really. The climbs were not exactly hard. Riblon's win on the Alpe is worth a lot more, as is Pinot's, and Nibali's last year too.

 

[rghysens]

Hey guys, how much value do you think a sprint victorie has compare with any other kind of victorie?
For example, Id say that Tim Wellens victorie yesterday was as much value as 4 or 5 sprint victories like Greiples today.

All depends where and when, and from what point of view (commercial, athletic value,...)
A sprint victory on the Champs Elysées in the tour > all Wellens' victories combined, certainly from a commercial point of view. A sprint victory in MSR probably has more value than Wellens' giro stage win.

 

[Fernandez]

What Im trying to compare is the typical sprint victorie like todays Giro with the kind of victorie that you take by your own. For example, Ulissis or Wellens victories against Greipels and Kittels victories. And trying to set them a comparative value. For me the first kind of them values something like 4 or 5 of the second ones. And something like winning in style the queen stage of a Giro or a Tour should value as much as 10 sprints, or more.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

What Im trying to compare is the typical sprint victorie like todays Giro with the kind of victorie that you take by your own. For example, Ulissis or Wellens victories against Greipels and Kittels victories. And trying to set them a comparative value. For me the first kind of them values something like 4 or 5 of the second ones. And something like winning in style the queen stage of a Giro or a Tour should value as much as 10 sprints, or more.

A win is a win, no matter how it came about. From a fans point of view, of course an entertaining win is more memorable, but as a pro cyclist, it's all about the competition present and the prestige of the race, not about the manner of victory

 

[Fernandez]

Re: Re:

What Im trying to compare is the typical sprint victorie like todays Giro with the kind of victorie that you take by your own. For example, Ulissis or Wellens victories against Greipels and Kittels victories. And trying to set them a comparative value. For me the first kind of them values something like 4 or 5 of the second ones. And something like winning in style the queen stage of a Giro or a Tour should value as much as 10 sprints, or more.

A win is a win, no matter how it came about. From a fans point of view, of course an entertaining win is more memorable, but as a pro cyclist, it's all about the competition present and the prestige of the race, not about the manner of victory

No way. There are wins and there are WINS. Contador WIN in Fuente De values as much as all the Greipels and Kittels wins.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

What Im trying to compare is the typical sprint victorie like todays Giro with the kind of victorie that you take by your own. For example, Ulissis or Wellens victories against Greipels and Kittels victories. And trying to set them a comparative value. For me the first kind of them values something like 4 or 5 of the second ones. And something like winning in style the queen stage of a Giro or a Tour should value as much as 10 sprints, or more.

A win is a win, no matter how it came about. From a fans point of view, of course an entertaining win is more memorable, but as a pro cyclist, it's all about the competition present and the prestige of the race, not about the manner of victory

No way. There are wins and there are WINS. Contador WIN in Fuente De values as much as all the Greipels and Kittels wins.

You need to clarify this....do you literally mean ALL their victories. Cause your statment wouldn't be true then.