Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[James M]

I still think it was a strange statement.

Who seriously thinks S. Yates is better than Adam uphill, or that Jorgenson is better than Almeida uphill? Kuss is a lost cause at this stage—nothing but wishful thinking. He’s not even worth mentioning, and the only reason he’s on the list is because Visma has zero high-quality climbers on their roster, ppl still waiting for him to show up Vuelta 24 and expecting he to do it now, no words he cant further improve it is what it is.

If anything, their strongest area is by far the rolling terrain with Jorgenson versatility and WVA being their best ones, not the mountains at all.

 

[Salvarani]

Who seriously thinks S. Yates is better than Adam uphill, or that Jorgenson is better than Almeida uphill? Kuss is a lost cause at this stage—nothing but wishful thinking. He’s not even worth mentioning, and the only reason he’s on the list is because Visma has zero high-quality climbers on their roster, ppl still waiting for him to show up Vuelta 24 and expecting he to do it now, no words he cant further improve it is what it is.

If anything, their strongest area is by far the rolling terrain with Jorgenson versatility and WVA being their best ones, not the mountains at all.

Jorgenson is a great rider.

I would be surprised to see Van Aert and Kuss get back to their prime climbing form again, but who knows.

 

[Tony Furgusson]

I don't think Remco is overrated.
He's one of the best in the world, but his lack of dominance affects him. In Zurich, he ended up unhinged, but he could've finished on the podium. He was seen arguing with Jorgenson, losing concentration.
Pogacar doesn't win San Remco or Roubaix, but he doesn't lose his temper so easily.

I think, as incredible as it may seem, Pogacar is underrated. Some are still in denial.

The other day I read a comment that VDP is the best at De Ronde. To this day, they still refuse to say that Pogacar is the best at Flanders.
In Liège, they had the excuse that Pogacar hasn't competed against Remco, but in Lombardy, the difference has always been very clear, and they still don't admit that Pogacar is the best long-distance rider. And the tougher the race, the better he is at that distance. Well, they tell you he's weak because after the PR, he felt the consequences one day

Well said. Cycling experts and cyclists themselves are saying that Pogi will be the GOAT...some will argue, he already is the GOAT. How ever we look at him...Tadej Pogačar is the best cyclist in this century. Ad acta !!!

 

[James M]

Different opinions. I rate Kuss and Matteo very highly and they will not race the Giro like Yates.

Neither is Almeida? What kind of backword argument is that? Both S and A Yates are going. Nevermind people are just destined to be surprised if they’re still waiting on Kuss in 25 to miraculously make any further improvement to his numbers when he hasnt done in 2 years.

 

[scribers]

I feel like our bro peyroteo just rolled up in his brand new (undriven) 2022 sports car

 

[Peyroteo94]

Neither is Almeida? What kind of backword argument is that? Both S and A Yates are going. Nevermind people are just destined to be surprised if they’re still waiting on Kuss in 25 to miraculously make any further improvement to his numbers when he hasnt done in 2 years.

Maybe you are right mate. But Kuss is the best mountain domestique in the word. At least, until 2023.

 

[James M]

Jorgenson is a great rider.

I would be surprised to see Van Aert and Kuss get back to their prime climbing form again, but who knows.

Yeah, no argument that especially Jorgenson is overall a much better rider, but we were specifically talking uphill, where it holds zero ground. Every single rider is worse uphill—no question about it.

Their strength lies in the rolling terrain, where their best riders' versatility and power truly come into play—not the mountains at all. Especially compared to UAE, it should be super obvious.

 

[Tony Furgusson]

Who seriously thinks S. Yates is better than Adam uphill, or that Jorgenson is better than Almeida uphill? Kuss is a lost cause at this stage—nothing but wishful thinking. He’s not even worth mentioning, and the only reason he’s on the list is because Visma has zero high-quality climbers on their roster, ppl still waiting for him to show up Vuelta 24 and expecting he to do it now, no words he cant further improve it is what it is.

If anything, their strongest area is by far the rolling terrain with Jorgenson versatility and WVA being their best ones, not the mountains at all.

And to think that Visma let Primož Roglič go???...ha ha ha ha ha...what fools. It serves them right...if you're stupid, pay for it.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Believing Kuss can put Pog in red again before Vinge attacks is a fantasy.

Who said that?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yeah, no argument that especially Jorgenson is overall a much better rider, but we were specifically talking uphill, where it holds zero ground. Every single rider is worse uphill—no question about it.

Their strength lies in the rolling terrain, where their best riders' versatility and power truly come into play—not the mountains at all. Especially compared to UAE, it should be super obvious.

Almeida is very good right now but Matteo beat him in PN. I think Matteo will be better this year in the mountains. Last year he had a nasty crash but was very strong in PdB or Isola for example.

 

[Medvind]

Having good mountain doms is of course crucial for Visma, but I actually think it's also important they have some real strong riders to set a high pace on climbs with shallower gradients. As when they had Van Baarle, van Hooydonck, and Laporte in super shape. Add also a good van Aert to that.

That's how they cracked Pog in 2023 stage 17.

If this strategy still works I don't know, but I don't no if any other strategy has a better chance for success.

 

[Peyroteo94]

And to think that Visma let Primož Roglič go???...ha ha ha ha ha...what fools. It serves them right...if you're stupid, pay for it.

They didn't let him go. Roglic didn't want to be the second GT rider and decided to leave.

 

[BubbaChuck]

uae is extremlly strong on climbs,mid on flat.its obvious,thye are focusing on tour,where the real money is,lol.i have respect for jonas,but i dont know,if it is healthy to base his whole career on duel with pogacar.if pog breaks him this year,his mental state will do down the drain.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Having good mountain doms is of course crucial for Visma, but I actually think it's also important they have some real strong riders to set a high pace on climbs with shallower gradients. As when they had Van Baarle, van Hooydonck, and Laporte in super shape. Add also a good van Aert to that.

That's how they cracked Pog in 2023 stage 17.

If this strategy still works I don't know, but I don't no if any other strategy has a better chance for success.

He cracked mentally mate. Not a good example

 

[James M]

Maybe you are right mate. But Kuss is the best mountain domestique in the word. At least, until 2023.

In 23 I would 100% agree and he was, but thats long gone cmon how do you even find that as a even remotly good reference point in 25 if I can ask? Hes still rocking his numbers from 23 people hoped he could in Vuelta 24 last year wait untill a GT for him to still rock his same numbers its not feasible to expect much more from him at all, any other top team he wouldnt be on the list, Visma have zero climbers almost of quality not even in the same league as UAE there in 25. Their strenght lies in the rolling terrain vs UAE and def not the mountains.

Almeida is very good right now but Matteo beat him in PN. I think Matteo will be better this iear in the mountains. Last year he had a nasty crash but was very strong in PdB or Isola for example.

Jorgenson clears everyone on UAE bar Pog overall but he wont outclimb Almeida generally at all nor close..Okei I wont discuss it, you can think that Visma have a better climbing team than UAE out of all things Im not gonne discuss that, its looking behind as only reference points so much my neck would hurt. Your opinion definitely not mine.

 

[Medvind]

He cracked mentally mate. Not a good example

Mentally?

If you don't try to get Pog tired before the climbs how in the hell is Vinge going to beat him on the climbs? I'm confident strong rouleurs is a necessary ingredient for Visma to give Vinge even the slighest chance of winning.

​

 

[Peyroteo94]

In 23 I would 100% agree and he was, but thats long gone cmon how do you even find that as a even remotly good reference point in 25 if I can ask? Hes still rocking his numbers from 23 people hoped he could in Vuelta 24 last year wait untill a GT for him to still rock his same numbers its not feasible to expect much more from him at all, any other top team he wouldnt be on the list, Visma have zero climbers almost of quality not even in the same league as UAE there in 25. Their strenght lies in the rolling terrain vs UAE and def not the mountains.

Jorgenson clears everyone on UAE bar Pog overall but he wont outclimb Almeida generally at all nor close..Okei I wont discuss it, you can think that Visma have a better climbing team than UAE out of all things Im not gonne discuss that, its looking behind as only reference points so much my neck would hurt. Your opinion definitely not mine.

João is not reliable as a domestique. He can be the best in one stage and the day after he is struggling to follow Simon Yates.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Mentally?

If you don't try to get Pog tired before the climbs how in the hell is Vinge going to beat him on the climbs? I'm confident strong rouleurs is a necessary ingredient for Visma to give Vinge even the slighest chance of winning.

​

The problem is that riding hard on flats won't tire Pogacar more than Vingegaard. I mean Pogacar was beaten only by MVP in freaking Paris-Roubaix.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Mentally?

If you don't try to get Pog tired before the climbs how in the hell is Vinge going to beat him on the climbs? I'm confident strong rouleurs is a necessary ingredient for Visma to give Vinge even the slighest chance of winning.

​

Vingegaard can only beat Pogacar by doing better W/Kg, this is how he can beat him. The first TT will also be very important to Vingegaard. If he can gain time on Pogacar, he will enter in Pog's mind.

 

[Cycling111]

By the way, what do you think of McNulty's attitude?

Pogacar didn't need him, but the guy didn't even give a single relay and then focused on closing in on one of the chasing groups, until Remco's group caught up with them and apparently was told over the radio to stop.

UAE's domestiques for the Tour are stronger. What's questionable about some is their attitude. In Visma no.
Will Almeida ride for his position or as a domestique? If Pogacar needs him to sacrifice his fourth place this year, will he do it?

 

[scribers]

And to think that Visma let Primož Roglič go???...ha ha ha ha ha...what fools. It serves them right...if you're stupid, pay for it.

It’s mutual really. He was never not going to be a team leader. And a two leader approach might have been a realistic approach. But rog is just too old now to make a dent in this thing we call pogi.

 

[scribers]

By the way, what do you think of McNulty's attitude?

Pogacar didn't need him, but the guy didn't even give a single relay and then focused on closing in on one of the chasing groups, until Remco's group caught up with them and apparently was told over the radio to stop.

UAE's domestiques for the Tour are stronger. What's questionable about some is their attitude. In Visma no.
Will Almeida ride for his position or as a domestique? If Pogacar needs him to sacrifice his fourth place this year, will he do it?

It was disturbing. He ate wind in chase of his leader up the road (who was without bottle for quite a while) and didn’t even show at the finish.

 

[James M]

João is not reliable as a domestique. He can be the best in one stage and the day after he is struggling to follow Simon Yates.

Okei man but you literally named 3 guys to make your argument, 3 ppl you think is better uphill that are significantly worse, following up with A Yates is going ot the Giro as if not Simon are so naturally people find it wild. And Kuss in 25, respectfully I find it hillarious.

Not that it matters its fine, its fine to have different opinions its okei, not that it matters Pogacar gonne make a fool out of everyone regardless with his increased power when he enters his natural habitat, he gonne make his crazy 24 numbers look bad.

 

[Peyroteo94]

By the way, what do you think of McNulty's attitude?

Pogacar didn't need him, but the guy didn't even give a single relay and then focused on closing in on one of the chasing groups, until Remco's group caught up with them and apparently was told over the radio to stop.

UAE's domestiques for the Tour are stronger. What's questionable about some is their attitude. In Visma no.
Will Almeida ride for his position or as a domestique? If Pogacar needs him to sacrifice his fourth place this year, will he do it?

He was trying to close attacks. Nothing more. I was a little more upset about him performance in AGR. He should be in Remco's wheel all the time when he was trying to bridge to Skjelmose

 

[Medvind]

The problem is that riding hard on flats won't tire Pogacar more than Vingegaard. I mean Pogacar was beaten only by MVP in freaking Paris-Roubaix.

You are probably right, but I still think it's the best gamble. Still believing that a hard tour can set Pog down a notch in the 3rd week.

Maybe it's a doomed strategy nowdays when Pog have improved further.

But what strategy is better? I'm curious to know.