Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[hayneplane]

Matteo Jorgenson is the name. This guy is giving me mutant vibes and I don't know what Visma will be cooking with him.

Yeah but I was having it as a given that Almeida and Jorgenson will both be the key super domestique for their respective squads.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar and Vingegaard are too strong for any domestique. This is not 2022 anymore where Pogacar was afraid of Roglic.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar and Vingegaard are too strong for any domestique. This is not 2022 anymore where Pogacar was afraid of Roglic.

Still, strong tempo by one of the domestiques can make the difference if both top dogs are closely matched (so the stronger one can break the weaker one only in case of a very strong pace from the bottom, they tried it on PdB last year). Alternatively, a guy like Jorgenson can be very helpful in case of a long range attack (i.e. if Vingo needs to regain more time than normally would be possible).

 

[Peyroteo94]

Still, strong tempo by one of the domestiques can make the difference if both top dogs are closely matched (so the stronger one can break the weaker one only in case of a very strong pace from the bottom, they tried it on PdB last year). Alternatively, a guy like Jorgenson can be very helpful in case of a long range attack (i.e. if Vingo needs to regain more time than normally would be possible).

In that scenario Vingegaard needs to drop Pogacar.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

In that scenario Vingegaard needs to drop Pogacar.

If Vingegaard is never stronger than Pog it won't happen but riders' form can vary between stages. In some stages (when Vingo is just a bit stronger) help by Jorgenson can help him build a gap (in both scenarios I gave).

 

[Oldman]

If Vingegaard is never stronger than Pog it won't happen but riders' form can vary between stages. In some stages (when Vingo is just a bit stronger) help by Jorgenson can help him build a gap (in both scenarios I gave).

The depth behind Pogacar is proving to be deeper based on performances so far. Jorgenson is strong but just not matched by many others on JV. Yates? Kelderman? WvA is an hour behind on GC and may be riding himself into form. If he takes a stage that has some climbing before the Giro is over that is a major asset for Vingo and sets up Matteo as a legit #2 threat. Until rosters are finalized we don't know what depth they have, or think they have. The Dauphine will be the tease for it.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If Vingegaard is never stronger than Pog it won't happen but riders' form can vary between stages. In some stages (when Vingo is just a bit stronger) help by Jorgenson can help him build a gap (in both scenarios I gave).

How will Matteo help him to build a gap? If goes earlier, UAE will catch him or not give him more than 30 seconds.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

How will Matteo help him to build a gap? If goes earlier, UAE will catch him or not give him more than 30 seconds.

I explained in the previous post.

 

[Shortcut]

The reason why I think Jorg is dangerous is because he has an X - factor with him. We don't know what his limits are.
Last year he was the only rider on par with Pog on the gravel stage. He did a monster pull on Plateau de Beille. He was faster than Almeida on both TTs.
Almeida is a diesel and I don't see how we will completely ruin his GC for Pogacar but Matteo will bury himself for Vingegaard.

Don’t exaggerate. On the gravel stage, he followed Pogacar only at the end (after Pogacar’s fifth attack), not before. When Remco and Tadej tried to break away, Jonas bridged the gap by himself. Jorgenson is good, but it’s not true that we don’t know what he’s capable of. I actually thought he’d be better in the classics this year, but he was a bit worse than last year, without any visible progress. On the other hand, Almeida has clearly progressed this year. Also, I don’t understand why you think Jorgenson will sacrifice himself incredibly for Jonas, while Almeida wouldn’t do the same for Tadej? What makes you think that? Almeida has shown himself to be a loyal and strong support for Tadej.

 

[hayneplane]

Don’t exaggerate. On the gravel stage, he followed Pogacar only at the end (after Pogacar’s fifth attack), not before. When Remco and Tadej tried to break away, Jonas bridged the gap by himself. Jorgenson is good, but it’s not true that we don’t know what he’s capable of. I actually thought he’d be better in the classics this year, but he was a bit worse than last year, without any visible progress. On the other hand, Almeida has clearly progressed this year. Also, I don’t understand why you think Jorgenson will sacrifice himself incredibly for Jonas, while Almeida wouldn’t do the same for Tadej? What makes you think that? Almeida has shown himself to be a loyal and strong support for Tadej.

I don’t think it is a case of lack of loyalty with Almeida but more that his effort management style of riding is not necessarily conducive to setting up attacks.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don’t think it is a case of lack of loyalty with Almeida but more that his effort management style of riding is not necessarily conducive to setting up attacks.

Almeida is a diesel climber but you are underestimating what Almeida can do. He is able to suffocate everyone for 10-15 minutes before Pogacar's attack.

 

[Lorzenz08]

How will Matteo help him to build a gap? If goes earlier, UAE will catch him or not give him more than 30 seconds.

Mateo will be particularly handy if they want to preserve Vingegaard energy to attack later in a climb and that Pogacar doesnt go earlier.
So it is not necessarily to exhaust Pogacar, as much as it is to keep Vingegaard legs as fresh as possible until the moment of attack.

 

[Oldman]

Mateo will be particularly handy if they want to preserve Vingegaard energy to attack later in a climb and that Pogacar doesnt go earlier.
So it is not necessarily to exhaust Pogacar, as much as it is to keep Vingegaard legs as fresh as possible until the moment of attack.

It's actually both possibilities. If he's capable of applying pressure that isolates Tadej; that's of value. If he assists in a chase while Vindegaard sits on his massive draft that is of value.
Ultimately Jonas has to capitalize on it and finish of Pogacar. There may be a situation where his assignment is to follow Pogacar when Jonas no longer can. We'll only see that if he's close enough in GC to be Visma's final hope and he can do it. Never say never 'cause that's how Jonas got his shot over Roglic.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Mateo will be particularly handy if they want to preserve Vingegaard energy to attack later in a climb and that Pogacar doesnt go earlier.
So it is not necessarily to exhaust Pogacar, as much as it is to keep Vingegaard legs as fresh as possible until the moment of attack.

Matteo will be important to put a very hard tempo before Vingegaard's attack. But that's it.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's actually both possibilities. If he's capable of applying pressure that isolates Tadej; that's of value. If he assists in a chase while Vindegaard sits on his massive draft that is of value.
Ultimately Jonas has to capitalize on it and finish of Pogacar. There may be a situation where his assignment is to follow Pogacar when Jonas no longer can. We'll only see that if he's close enough in GC to be Visma's final hope and he can do it. Never say never 'cause that's how Jonas got his shot over Roglic.

This will not happen against UAE. They are very strong and Matteo will never be as good as Vingegaard so I can't see a 2x1 in the mountains. Dauphiné will give us a clear picture about how far Matteo is from Pogacar and Vingegaard in the mountains.

 

[James M]

Did someone say Strade Bianche. Hold my beer.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Did someone say Strade Bianche. Hold my beer.

Glorious moment!

 

[Rou]

Van Aert will be fully resurrected for the Tour. Visma will be nuclear which is bad news for Pogi.

 

[Cycling111]

It still seems crazy to think that Del Toro should´ve been a reserve for TDF?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Van Aert will be fully resurrected for the Tour. Visma will be nuclear which is bad news for Pogi.

Yates looked very good too. I think we will have an epic Tour.

 

[Cycling111]

Van Aert will be fully resurrected for the Tour. Visma will be nuclear which is bad news for Pogi.

I'm more surprised to see Simon stronger than Adam in this Giro.
The bad news is this.

Adam will arrive at the Tour fatigued. Sivakov's performance in the mountains this year has been poor.
Pogacar will depend on Almeida not having an accident.

Del Toro should be the TDF reserve in case Sivakov doesn't reach his level.

That's what I said the other day, although no one agrees.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I'm more surprised to see Simon stronger than Adam in this Giro.
The bad news is this.

Adam will arrive at the Tour fatigued. Sivakov's performance in the mountains this year has been poor.
Pogacar will depend on Almeida not having an accident.

Del Toro should be the TDF reserve in case Sivakov doesn't reach his level.

That's what I said the other day, although no one agrees.

Are you new in cycling? Yates will not be fatigued in the Tour because he will not race for the GC

 

[Cycling111]

Are you new in cycling? Yates will not be fatigued in the Tour because he will not race for the GC

I know. I'm saying he'll arrive at the Tour more fatigued.
If Sivakov doesn't improve, I think it could be a problem.

If Sivakov had not given bad feelings I would not raise this.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I know. I'm saying he'll arrive at the Tour more fatigued.
If Sivakov doesn't improve, I think it could be a problem.

If Sivakov had not given bad feelings I would not raise this.

He will ride into shape. He has 11 stages for that.

 

[James M]

He will ride into shape. He has 11 stages for that.

You're asking him if he's new to cycling, and then you're implying that Yates will ride his way into form while competing in the GC?

Cause competing in the overall GC is not grueling—breaking down your body? Have you watched any Giro-Tour double before? Because it doesn’t work like that unless your name is Pogacar you cant ride yourself fresh as a daisy into form competing in GC. History disagree with you so striking irony you asking him if hes new to cycling.