Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

They all will be 2 levels below Pogacar and Vingegaard anyway. I just don't think its going to be the decisive factor. What is Yates going to do? He will be not good enough to run a "dual threat" strategy on Pogacar - and setting up an attack is overrated in the high mountains in my opinion (drafting matters close to 0 above certain gradients).

Visma can ride as hard as possible, Vingegaard still needs to drop Pogacar or another PdB scenario will happen.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Visma can ride as hard as possible, Vingegaard still needs to drop Pogacar or another PdB scenario will happen.

Agreed. People dont understand how much better Pogi and Vingo are compared to the rest.

They are useful for the first 5km of a climb to keep their legs fresh as long as possible until one decide to go, after the others look like they stopped pedalling.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Agreed. People dont understand how much better Pogi and Vingo are compared to the rest.

They are useful for the first 5km of a climb to keep their legs fresh as long as possible until one decide to go, after the others look like they stopped pedalling.

I still remember how Pogacar gained more than 3 minutes in the last 10km of Isola 2000 to Matteo. It's absurd! And I'm not even talking about PdB or Galibier (he gained 38 seconds to Roglic and co in just 850m).

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think it's more that Simon looks good, while Adam started looking worse instead of improving during the final week of the Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

I think it's more that Simon looks good, while Adam started looking worse instead of improving during the final week of the Giro.

Adam I think decided to go training mode really early

 

[Peyroteo94]

Adam I think decided to go training mode really early

Why do you say this?

 

[yaco]

Not always. Granon

And Vingegaard saved that Tour because he had Van Aert on the cobbles. That day in the UAE, Vingegaard would´ve lost the Tour.

But you are seeking perfection in the team selected and in the role and the form of the aforementioned. History shows us that Jumbo will select a team with strong rouleurs while UAE will go for stronger climbers. At the end of the day this is not a Granon because none of the domestics are remotely as strong as Jonas and Pogi.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Both S. Yates and Carapaz, for that matter, were climbing really well in the 3rd week of the Tour last season.

I think both of these were just being underrated before the Giro.

S. Yates also only rode TA and Catalunya for race days and building up very slowly. Flying under the radar.

I think people just were underestimating what he still could do. Because pedigree and underlining things clearly suggested this was possible, why Visma also signed him.

He peaked here though and it could be hard to do that again in the Tour, but likely he starts slow there and is only expected to be there in the high mountains. We will see.

Some people really underestimate Simon Yates. He always was better than his brother but was stucked in a worse team so he didn't develop like his brother. If he was in Visma earlier, he would be a GT contender for more years. Something his brother never was able to do it.

 

[Cycling111]

@Peyroteo94
Yesterday you said Simon's climb wasn't that good, but according to the calculations they're making Simon climbed at Remco's pace in the PDB at the Tour2024.

We're talking about a domestique for Vingegaard. If Simon is at Remco's level at last Tour de France, would only have two riders above him: Pogacar and Vingegaard.

And we're talking about a rider who hasn't been at that level for years. So we'll see what Jorgenson and Kuss are capable of.
And if Simon has improved this at 32, I have no doubt that Vingegaard will have improved this year as well.

 

[Rou]

Any comments from Pogacar about the debacle of yesterday or he is still quiet?

 

[Cycling111]

Any comments from Pogacar about the debacle of yesterday or he is still quiet?

Yesterday he posted a photo of Del Toro and Majka, and today another one of the team.
He didn't say anything, only photo.

I think it was the right thing to do. Not posting anything would have raised eyebrows, and I assume he's doing it to support Del Toro in this difficult time.

 

[Red Rick]

Any comments from Pogacar about the debacle of yesterday or he is still quiet?

Why would he say anything, and if he said something, why would it be anything other than softball pr supporting Del Toro and the team?

 

[Rou]

Why would he say anything, and if he said something, why would it be anything other than softball pr supporting Del Toro and the team?

Maybe he would say something cryptic like: ''Sometimes you need to follow your instincts.''

 

[Mayomaniac]

Some people really underestimate Simon Yates. He always was better than his brother but was stucked in a worse team so he didn't develop like his brother. If he was in Visma earlier, he would be a GT contender for more years. Something his brother never was able to do it.

Tbf, if Simon actually did a Mas style stagehunter at the Tour and gc at the Vuelta schedule more often he'd have a lot more decent gc results.

 

[Peyroteo94]

@Peyroteo94
Yesterday you said Simon's climb wasn't that good, but according to the calculations they're making Simon climbed at Remco's pace in the PDB at the Tour2024.

We're talking about a domestique for Vingegaard. If Simon is at Remco's level at last Tour de France, would only have two riders above him: Pogacar and Vingegaard.

And we're talking about a rider who hasn't been at that level for years. So we'll see what Jorgenson and Kuss are capable of.
And if Simon has improved this at 32, I have no doubt that Vingegaard will have improved this year as well.

I don't believe but even if he was able to replicate Remco's performance, Remco is nowhere near the level of Pogacar.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Any comments from Pogacar about the debacle of yesterday or he is still quiet?

He has been shown a lot of support to Del Toro. There a a special bond between them, he never showed this to Ayuso.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Tbf, if Simon actually did a Mas style stagehunter at the Tour and gc at the Vuelta schedule more often he'd have a lot more decent gc results.

He was in a very mediocre team to be honest. In a top team, he would get more podium places or even more GT wins. Hindley won a Giro

 

[Cycling111]

I don't believe but even if he was able to replicate Remco's performance, Remco is nowhere near the level of Pogacar.

But Remco wasn't Vingegaard's domestique, Simon yes.
That's what I'm talking about.

Pogacar may be superior to all of Visma, including Vingegaard. But if he has a feeding problem or some kind of mishap, it's best not be with Vingegaard and one of his domestiques.

Last year, Pogacar had a crisis in Lioran. If instead of Vingegaard, it was Vingegaard and Kuss, Kuss would start to pull and Pogacar could´ve exploded.

That's what I'm talking about. Having a domestique in a team rival of that level as a rival is never good. It doesn't leave him room for a breakdown, a temporary crisis, nothing.

Aside from the fact that, if Simon has improved like this, imagine Vingegaard.

And Vingegaard's reference to the Algarve doesn't tell me anything
Simon didn't show the same level he did yesterday in the previous races to the Giro. Vingegaard's level is going to be much higher than what we saw in Algarve.
Simon's performance at Finestre was far superior to what he had at Tirreno Adriano.

 

[Peyroteo94]

But Remco wasn't Vingegaard's domestique, Simon yes.
That's what I'm talking about.

Pogacar may be superior to all of Visma, including Vingegaard. But if he has a feeding problem or some kind of mishap, it's best not be with Vingegaard and one of his domestiques.

Last year, Pogacar had a crisis in Lioran. If instead of Vingegaard, it was Vingegaard and Kuss, Kuss would start to pull and Pogacar could´ve exploded.

That's what I'm talking about. Having a domestique in a team rival of that level as a rival is never good. It doesn't leave him room for a breakdown, a temporary crisis, nothing.

Aside from the fact that, if Simon has improved like this, imagine Vingegaard.

And Vingegaard's reference to the Algarve doesn't tell me anything
Simon didn't show the same level he did yesterday in the previous races to the Giro. Vingegaard's level is going to be much higher than what we saw in Algarve.
Simon's performance at Finestre was far superior to what he had at Tirreno Adriano.

Again, Yates wasn't at Remco's level for sure. If Carapaz and Del Toro wanted, they would be with him or even in front of him.

 

[Cycling111]

Again, Yates wasn't at Remco's level for sure. If Carapaz and Del Toro wanted, they would be with him or even in front of him.

Del Toro closed the gap easily in Carapaz's first attacks, but in the final atacckshe lost a few meters and closed the gap more slowly.
And just before stopping, Carapaz tried to follow Simon, but he couldn't.
They weren´t at Simon's level.

In any case, you have to keep in mind that Del Toro has been the best UAE climber in this Giro. Better than Adam Yates, who will be a domestique in TDF.
The important thing is that Adam and Simon will have the same role in the Tour, and Simon was far superior to his brother.

 

[Fos]

But Remco wasn't Vingegaard's domestique, Simon yes.
That's what I'm talking about.

Pogacar may be superior to all of Visma, including Vingegaard. But if he has a feeding problem or some kind of mishap, it's best not be with Vingegaard and one of his domestiques.

Last year, Pogacar had a crisis in Lioran. If instead of Vingegaard, it was Vingegaard and Kuss, Kuss would start to pull and Pogacar could´ve exploded.

That's what I'm talking about. Having a domestique in a team rival of that level as a rival is never good. It doesn't leave him room for a breakdown, a temporary crisis, nothing.

Aside from the fact that, if Simon has improved like this, imagine Vingegaard.

And Vingegaard's reference to the Algarve doesn't tell me anything
Simon didn't show the same level he did yesterday in the previous races to the Giro. Vingegaard's level is going to be much higher than what we saw in Algarve.
Simon's performance at Finestre was far superior to what he had at Tirreno Adriano.

It was expected that Simon would take a step forward this year, his first year with Visma. It shouldn't affect the people who have been with the team for several years.

 

[Froome]

@Peyroteo94
Yesterday you said Simon's climb wasn't that good, but according to the calculations they're making Simon climbed at Remco's pace in the PDB at the Tour2024.

We're talking about a domestique for Vingegaard. If Simon is at Remco's level at last Tour de France, would only have two riders above him: Pogacar and Vingegaard.

And we're talking about a rider who hasn't been at that level for years. So we'll see what Jorgenson and Kuss are capable of.
And if Simon has improved this at 32, I have no doubt that Vingegaard will have improved this year as well.

It's not that difficult to improve without a pneumotorax, pulmonary contusion, fractured collarbone, fractured 10 ribs, and without a lot of muscle mass.

After that, you add the improvements the riders do every year.

 

[yaco]

Tbf, if Simon actually did a Mas style stagehunter at the Tour and gc at the Vuelta schedule more often he'd have a lot more decent gc results.

Nothing I've see from Simon when he has done back to back GT's suggests that the second one should be for GC. he has won 10 GT stages.

 

[Cycling111]

1- 4 riders

2- Pogacar

https://twitter.com/x/status/1928887427076178114

View: https://x.com/CafeRoubaix/status/1928887427076178114?t=OvdkfYyvOurjsWeK-5bnDw&s=19

 

[AmRacer]

1- 4 riders

2- Pogacar

https://twitter.com/x/status/1928887427076178114

View: https://x.com/CafeRoubaix/status/1928887427076178114?t=OvdkfYyvOurjsWeK-5bnDw&s=19

Pog the 🐐 is almost as good as a whole team