Talansky on Vuelta, Wiggins and calling out Andy Jacques-Maynes

[Don't be late Pedro]

Andrew Talansky interview. I assume most people here are not going to believe a word from him when he talks about doping but some interesting parts.

VN: What are you impressions after racing alongside Contador?
AT: I have never done a race with him before. It was pretty cool to see. He commands a lot of respect in the bunch. It’s been interesting this season, because I’ve raced with Wiggins this year as well. When Wiggins is on the bike, he looks intimidating. He looks like a metronome, he’s so calm and in control. That’s how he won the Tour. With Alberto, you can see the way he rides with such passion. The way he attacks is like no one else. He’s got an instinct for the race. He’s a real bike racer. It’s been pretty cool to see him, Valverde, (Joaquim) Rodríguez. Purito (Rodríguez) had one bad day at a bad time, but he rode an incredible Vuelta.

More...

 

[Big Doopie]

A second part of that is I also believe that fans and journalists owe it to us to believe in us, because we have never given them a reason not to. What I feel is unfair is I do not feel like I owe it to a single person to show some proof that I am clean...

while i understand the sentiment from a young rider, the problem with this is that the last 22 years now forces "clean" riders to -- yes -- have to prove they are clean. fans and journalists don't owe anything at all to pro riders. we have been duped for way too long. unfortunately for talansky, until the uci (under new directors) can show transparency and sets in place testing that clearly restricts the opportunity to dope, the fans and journalists have no obligation to "believe" anything. In fact the riders are the ones who "owe it to us".

 

[therhodeo]

"He commands a lot of respect in the bunch."

"so now you’re saying if a rider is suspected of doping, they are considered an outcast? AT: That’s completely accurate. Maybe before, the outcasts were the ones who said something. It’s completely reversed."

 

[hrotha]

Ah, uh. Err.

While I like Talansky a lot, I get the feeling that every time he opens his mouth I'll like him less and less.

Virtually everything he said on doping (it's all about training harder than all those other lazy bums, look at my controls and biological passport, those watt figures are theoretically within human limits therefore they were achieved cleanly, Millar is the most outspoken anti-doping crusader out there, there's been a cultural shift and now no one's afraid to speak out against doping [Note: hi Lance], Wiggins was exactly right to say sceptics were w****s) was embarrassing to read.

 

[therhodeo]

His treatment of the conti pros was pretty ******y in my opinion. Clean or not he doesn't sound like a guy I'd want to hang out with.

 

[iZnoGouD]

His treatment of the conti pros was pretty ******y in my opinion. Clean or not he doesn't sound like a guy I'd want to hang out with.

why?
10 char

 

[jpljpl]

This dude has got some pretty sound logic:

"Every single day we race our bikes, we race clean. Taylor, winning the Giro prologue; Tejay, fifth in the Tour; me, second in Romandie to Wiggins, who won the Tour – every single result we get in this generation is proving that the sport is clean, proving that we are clean, and proving the majority of the peloton is clean"

By the same token anybody and everybody who comes in the top 10 is clean
and I guess that means that everyone below them is not clean at all...
what a tool.

Though more seriously, it just sounds like the riders are still scared to say anything about doping. We ride clean; it was fantastic riding with Cantador, Valverde, blah blah.. just disappointing

 

[therhodeo]

Think the journo noticed like I did that he kept avoiding saying Ryder? Also all young anglos are clean. If your name sounds too euro or you tan well then all bets are off.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Think the journo noticed like I did that he kept avoiding saying Ryder?

I did wonder the same thing. Would have thought that would be the first name he would mention as a reference for clean cycling.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Talansky just put a fresh turd in an envelope and posted it
through the Clinic letter box.
Certainly a big, big fan of Sky and Wiggins.

VN: Do you believe Sky and Wiggins did it clean?
AT: I have no doubt that they did it clean. I know what went into their training. I know guys on that team. I know Richie Porte. I know Chris Froome. I’ve seen Wiggins all year. They have taken a different approach. They have left nothing to chance. There is no team in cycling that does things the way they do it. Fans do not understand what they put into it. They had four, five guys on Tenerife, doing intervals, suffering, away from their friends, and they did that a few times this year. They had the same guys racing from Algarve all the way to the Tour. I completely believe they did it clean. There is not a doubt in my mind.

 

[Benotti69]

more omerta spin

VN: Do you believe Sky and Wiggins did it clean?
AT: I have no doubt that they did it clean. I know what went into their training. I know guys on that team. I know Richie Porte. I know Chris Froome. I’ve seen Wiggins all year. They have taken a different approach. They have left nothing to chance. There is no team in cycling that does things the way they do it. Fans do not understand what they put into it. They had four, five guys on Tenerife, doing intervals, suffering, away from their friends, and they did that a few times this year. They had the same guys racing from Algarve all the way to the Tour. I completely believe they did it clean. There is not a doubt in my mind.

What BS.

"They left nothing to chance" ? tell me all the teams that go halfarsed into the TdF?

So what did Sky leave to chance at La Vuelta? What did Garmin leave to chance at La Vuelta that meant they didn't win.

More of the BS talk about being better prepared than anyone else. It is totally disrespectful to everyone else.

The more i hear from Garmin the more i am convinced these guys dope to the 'LeMond clean' limit!

Said it before, but very few are going to get to that level naturally. So most if not all are getting there or very near to it with dope.

I also believe that fans and journalists owe it to us to believe in us, because we have never given them a reason not to. Every single day we race our bikes, we race clean. Taylor, winning the Giro prologue; Tejay, fifth in the Tour; me, second in Romandie to Wiggins, who won the Tour – every single result we get in this generation is proving that the sport is clean, proving that we are clean, and proving the majority of the peloton is clean.

What I feel is unfair is I do not feel like I owe it to a single person to show some proof that I am clean(1), because I do show it. I do get tested. I have a biological passport. I go out and work my *** off.(2) I really wish sometimes that people could see how we live. Come take a look into my life for a week, to see what it takes to compete at this level. People think they know and understand, but until you live it at this level, it’s hard to truly understand. Even professional cyclists do not understand what it takes to compete at the top level clean. (3)It’s more than anyone can imagine. It’s dedicating your entire life. I feel like some fans should believe in us(4). We are a completely new generation. Like Wiggins said in the Tour, he doesn’t have time for them. If you do not believe in me? More than passing doping controls, more than a blood passport, more than getting results? You cannot prove a negative. There is no more that we can do(5).

1. Talansky obviously lives in a cave and knows nothing about the history of the sport or he is repeating a JV mantra.

2. Like other people in life dont work their **** off with out any glory. Lots do it. Did no one tell Talanksy tests are easy to beat and the passport is a joke.

3. What does this mean. Pros dont know? Then who does, oh i can guess, only clean teams like Garmin and sky!!

4. They do, the blind ones.

5. Really, Ullrich, Basso, Scarponi, Vaughters, Danielson CVdV etc etc etc have all proved negative yet doped. Talansky is an idiot and after reading his ideas, a doper who has spouted off like all the others who asked us to believe in them because they train hard and are dedicated etc etc etc....stuck record.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Another crap from mr vaughters corner.

 

[zigmeister]

Ah, uh. Err.

While I like Talansky a lot, I get the feeling that every time he opens his mouth I'll like him less and less.

Virtually everything he said on doping (it's all about training harder than all those other lazy bums, look at my controls and biological passport, those watt figures are theoretically within human limits therefore they were achieved cleanly, Millar is the most outspoken anti-doping crusader out there, there's been a cultural shift and now no one's afraid to speak out against doping [Note: hi Lance], Wiggins was exactly right to say sceptics were w****s) was embarrassing to read.

You forgot to include the next section and how his statement refer to people like yourself. This speaks directly to the doubters like you.

"I would like to call out Andy Jacques-Maynes — you can put this specifically — he put something in Twitter. I have raced with him in California. He went on Twitter and said that everyone who races in Europe has done drugs at some point. That is such an inaccurate statement, whether he intended to, he was implying that me, Phinney, Tejay, Stetina, Howes, that we’re all using drugs. He’s part of the problem in this sport. If you want to make an accusation, then you have evidence, but to make a blanket statement, in a public forum, from a so-called professional cyclist, I find it disturbing. Then he followed it up that he has exceptional physiology and what we do seems impossible.

We train in a completely different way than he can image. If he thinks he has exceptional physiology, then he’s delusional. Look at Wiggins; to win the Tour, you have to start at a different level. That is a genetic thing. It’s there or it’s not. No amount of training can change that. You have to accept that. He has to accept that if he trained exactly the way Bradley Wiggins did, he would never win the Tour. He might not even be able to ride the Tour. Those Twitters he posted made me sad. It gave me motivation for this race, because every day that I go out and perform, it’s proving people like that completely wrong. It makes me happy when Tejay is fifth at the Tour, Taylor won at the Giro.

VN: Ryder won the Giro…
AT: Yeah, Ryder won the Giro. Dombrowki is climbing with the best guys at Colorado. The list goes on and it proves guys like Andy Jacques-Maynes wrong every day. It just saddens me when someone who supposedly understands the sport would say something like that."

 

[goggalor]

Talansky just put a fresh turd in an envelope and posted it
through the Clinic letter box.
Certainly a big, big fan of Sky and Wiggins.

VN: Do you believe Sky and Wiggins did it clean?
AT: I have no doubt that they did it clean. I know what went into their training. I know guys on that team. I know Richie Porte. I know Chris Froome. I’ve seen Wiggins all year. They have taken a different approach. They have left nothing to chance. There is no team in cycling that does things the way they do it. Fans do not understand what they put into it. They had four, five guys on Tenerife, doing intervals, suffering, away from their friends, and they did that a few times this year. They had the same guys racing from Algarve all the way to the Tour. I completely believe they did it clean. There is not a doubt in my mind.

Professional bike riders riding their bikes, incredible. Maybe Team Garmin should do some intervals as well, because Wiggins today is ten times the rider he was with Garmin.

 

[Ferminal]

Funny if Vaughters loses another one to Sky

Ok probably sad, but everyone wants to be on that team.

 

[zigmeister]

1. Talansky obviously lives in a cave and knows nothing about the history of the sport or he is repeating a JV mantra.

2. Like other people in life dont work their **** off with out any glory. Lots do it. Did no one tell Talanksy tests are easy to beat and the passport is a joke.

3. What does this mean. Pros dont know? Then who does, oh i can guess, only clean teams like Garmin and sky!!

4. They do, the blind ones.

5. Really, Ullrich, Basso, Scarponi, Vaughters, Danielson CVdV etc etc etc have all proved negative yet doped. Talansky is an idiot and after reading his ideas, a doper who has spouted off like all the others who asked us to believe in them because they train hard and are dedicated etc etc etc....stuck record.

This is the typical response from people who are big failures in life and want to take everybody else down due to the genetics and hand they were dealt.

You must have had dreams at one point in time of being a competitive cyclist, but that was shattered because everybody else is "doping" right? You worked and raced for years, only for some 16yr old kid to smoke you with ease in a race.

Then you try to justify what you write to make yourself feel psychologically better that the World must be against you. You have somehow been robbed of some dream. Obviously, if you can't do it and achieve that level with hard work, then everybody else must be doped up to get to that level.

Reality, that is life. Deal with it by not trying to take everybody else down into your sad little world.

 

[Benotti69]

<personal insults are very mature>

You must have had dreams at one point in time of being a competitive cyclist, but that was shattered because everybody else is "doping" right? You worked and raced for years, only for some 16yr old kid to smoke you with ease in a race.

Then you try to justify what you write to make yourself feel psychologically better that the World must be against you. You have somehow been robbed of some dream. Obviously, if you can't do it and achieve that level with hard work, then everybody else must be doped up to get to that level.

Reality, that is life. Deal with it by not trying to take everybody else down into your sad little world.

You are a fan of Armstrong, from your posting history, so anything you post has to be taken with an old out of date well worn dirty yellow bracelet.

 

[bpickford]

Give the guy a break. He's only 23, and is young and passionate about his sport. I'd rather that and he states his strong opinions, than he just tows the line and makes bland statements. I'd rather be positive and enthusiastic whilst possibly a bit naive, rather than negative and always looking to drag things down.

 

[hrotha]

You forgot to include the next section and how his statement refer to people like yourself. This speaks directly to the doubters like you.(...)

No, that bit was included when I said he agreed with Wiggins on the w****s issue.

 

[131313]

wait...I have to do intervals? why didn't anyone tell me that?

Talansky has never been a very likeable guy, so it's easy to think the worst of him. Funny thing is that neither are the Brothers J-M. That said, there's no question that they have "exceptional physiology", or at least Ben does. Since they're identical twins, and Andy wasn't racing full-time, that probably explains the difference. And yeah, it's weird to be getting dropped at a race like Cascade and then battling for a high placing in the Vuelta. Sure he was like 20 at the time, but so was Lachlan Morton, who showed an awful lot there and at Utah.

Maybe that's just the progression he's made, or maybe he's juiced to the gills, but his ultra-defensive attitude isn't doing him any favors. Of his teammates who've raced in Europe, how many of them have doped at some point in their careers? Answer: most of them. So, if he's mad about people thinking he's doping and he is clean, he's mad at the wrong people. Overall though, he sounds like a Little Lance.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

This is the typical response from people who are big failures in life and want to take everybody else down due to the genetics and hand they were dealt.

You must have had dreams at one point in time of being a competitive cyclist, but that was shattered because everybody else is "doping" right? You worked and raced for years, only for some 16yr old kid to smoke you with ease in a race.

Then you try to justify what you write to make yourself feel psychologically better that the World must be against you. You have somehow been robbed of some dream. Obviously, if you can't do it and achieve that level with hard work, then everybody else must be doped up to get to that level.

Reality, that is life. Deal with it by not trying to take everybody else down into your sad little world.

Cycling needs people to be cynical and constantly challenging riders about doping, if no-one does that then the next EPO era is just around the corner.

I think there are a few posters in the clinc who are over the top but thats just my opinion and I'll put up with them because they are a necessary evil.

The price of clean cycling is eternal vigilance (apologies to Thomas Jefferson)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ah, uh. Err.

While I like Talansky a lot, I get the feeling that every time he opens his mouth I'll like him less and less.

Virtually everything he said on doping (it's all about training harder than all those other lazy bums, look at my controls and biological passport, those watt figures are theoretically within human limits therefore they were achieved cleanly, Millar is the most outspoken anti-doping crusader out there, there's been a cultural shift and now no one's afraid to speak out against doping [Note: hi Lance], Wiggins was exactly right to say sceptics were w****s) was embarrassing to read.

Give the guy a break. He's only 23, and is young and passionate about his sport. I'd rather that and he states his strong opinions, than he just tows the line and makes bland statements. I'd rather be positive and enthusiastic whilst possibly a bit naive, rather than negative and always looking to drag things down.

Two posts that hold different views, yet cover my thoughts.

Sure he is just 23, but he appears well clued in on the sport and its history. Certainly having Millar & JV about.
But what I don't understand is his dismissal of AJM and then turning around and saying:

A second part of that is I also believe that fans and journalists owe it to us to believe in us, because we have never given them a reason not to.

Now, while I understand what he is saying on a personal level, surely he realizes that the history (recent history) of the sport means that everyone has the right to question and be suspicious - and that if he is clean, then it is indeed up to him to say it.

 

[D-Queued]

more omerta spin

...

The more i hear from Garmin the more i am convinced these guys dope to the 'LeMond clean' limit!

....

Nice Troll.

Dave.

 

[Ingenerius]

I was starting to feel a bit optimistic for the future actuallly, and then these apparently applauded sentiments from Talansky come out, and shows that there is absolutely nothing to be optimistic about. He single-handedly made me go back to disliking Garmin again.

I was now really believing that JV was sincere, but when he supports this interview from Talansky, I'm starting to feel duped again.

Thought it was funny that at first:
(the work harder BS is such BS by the way)

I go out and work my *** off. I really wish sometimes that people could see how we live. Come take a look into my life for a week, to see what it takes to compete at this level. People think they know and understand, but until you live it at this level, it’s hard to truly understand. Even professional cyclists do not understand what it takes to compete at the top level clean. It’s more than anyone can imagine. It’s dedicating your entire life.

Fans do not understand what they put into it. They had four, five guys on Tenerife, doing intervals, suffering, away from their friends, and they did that a few times this year.

And then:

I get joy out of doing this –– being a professional bike racer. I get to wake up every day and I get to do what I have dreamed about my entire life. I am thankful for that every single day. I am sure in this world there is a very small minority of people who get to do what they dreamed about for a living. I work very hard to be able to do this.

People always say cycling is sacrifice, but for me, there is no sacrifice. I am not sacrificing anything to do this sport.

First it is such a gruesome job, come live in my shoes blablba, and then best job in the world, no sacrifices.

Yes, you are priviliged to be a pro cyclist Talansky, and you owe us, not the other way around.

 

[hiero2]

. . .
Now, while I understand what he is saying on a personal level, surely he realizes that the history (recent history) of the sport means that everyone has the right to question and be suspicious - and that if he is clean, then it is indeed up to him to say it.

I agree. I think that this thread is focusing on the negative part of what Talansky said, though, and that we are taking it out of context. Mostly what is quoted here follows this:

Because of Millar and Jonathan, riders like myself, Taylor (Phinney), Tejay (van Garderen), Joe Dombrowski, Alex Howes, Peter Stetina, we never have to make that decision. What I will say is that we do have an obligation to do things the right way; now it’s a very easy thing to do. It’s not a choice for us. It’s the way things are done. We train, we recover, we race our bikes. There is nothing else. Our team takes that stance. The riders in the peloton take that stance. We know it’s our responsibility to show people what can be achieved completely clean.

from VN: Talansky interview page 2

I agree that the following comments in the article - about US owing THEM - show immaturity, and are not a good and realistic reflection of the relationship between the fans, the media, and the peloton. However, since I see him saying some very mature things in other statements, I have to think the boy was raised right, as my grandmother would have said. But, he is still young, and in some ways has led a sheltered life.

However, Talansky's viewpoint has merit. If you think about it, he and the rest of the peloton are doing a LOT to be clean, and to show that they are clean. When he says WE owe him, if we are polite and realistic, we DO owe the riders in the peloton this: we owe it to them to listen to them. We do owe them the freedom to speak their mind. And, if they are speaking not with their voices, but with the tools of the trade, we owe it to them to listen to that as a communication. I think we sometimes lose sight of this too quickly.

Talansky says it:

It’s dedicating your entire life. I feel like some fans should believe in us. We are a completely new generation. Like Wiggins said in the Tour, he doesn’t have time for them. If you do not believe in me? More than passing doping controls, more than a blood passport, more than getting results? You cannot prove a negative. There is no more that we can do.

They are speaking to us through doping controls, the bio passport, and getting results.

Where he makes his mistake, as noticed several times by other respondents here is in this:

VN: That’s what everyone always said in the past, that they never failed a doping test. That is not proof that they were not doped to the gills…
AT: That’s fine. They can continue saying that. I am not going to try to convince them. That’s what people always say. Look at numbers. Vaughters posted it. What is the watts-per-kilogram now? With Rodríguez, it was 6.1. I was at 5.8. Those are doable numbers. That’s what winning races. It’s not 6.7, it’s not seven anymore. The numbers are there to prove it. It’s premised on assuming that we are clean.

"I am not going to try to convince them." As others have noted, he is not so far removed from the dark era that he can afford to believe this. I hope JV gets this thread to him. Maybe it will help him wake up.

He is right, some of us will never believe him, but the more he realizes that the subject needs to be open and discussed, and not "assumed", the fewer of us will be that way.


I am very glad to see we can even see such an interview in VN. Unless ALL of the peloton are lying to us, then some of them must be telling the truth. Since, imo, the available facts support Garmin and JV, I am choosing, at this time, to believe that Talansky is being honest and truthful.