TdF Podiums

[BroDeal]

Stolen from RBR. This pretty much speaks for itself:

lets look at the podiums in lances wins....

2005
Lance Armstrong
Ivan Basso*
Jan Ullrich*

2004
Lance Armstrong
Andreas Klöden* (Pending)
Ivan Basso*

2003
Lance Armstrong
Jan Ullrich*
Alexander Vinokourov*

2002
Lance Armstrong
Joseba Beloki*
Raimondas Rumšas*

2001
Lance Armstrong
Jan Ullrich*
Joseba Beloki*

2000
Lance Armstrong
Jan Ullrich*
Joseba Beloki*

1999
Lance Armstrong
Alex Zülle*
Fernando Escartín*

 

[RdBiker]

Hah! Never looked at it that way. Was Zulle caught too? Can't remember when or for what.

Anyway, it's interesting to look at old TdF results and cross out the names that have tested positive later on. The list shortens up quite a bit...

 

[ukpaul]

Ive never understood how someone that claims he's never doped beats all the guys that have

 

[lookkg386]

We get it.

But hasn't this been covered in about 8 other threads?

 

[kjetilraknerud]

So - if you remove everyone that has not been mentioned in the same sentence as doping plus Lance, your TdF winners are:
2005 - Leipheimer
2004 - Azevedo
2003 - Zubeldia
2002 - Leipheimer
2001 - Kivilev
2000 - Escartin
1999 - Escartin

I might have overlooked something, but Levi as a two time TdF winner?

 

[Anonymous]

there is of course one assumption made in all of those names, that if they where doping in one year, they had to be doping in another...

ulrich doping in 2000, does not mean he was doping in 2003, vinny doping in 2006 does not mean he was doping in 2003, the same for all the riders.. we can only assume them to be doping in the years they where caught, or admitted to doping.. (yes, we can assume, but assumption is not fact)

was it an accident that lance didnt get a * for 1999..

i think we have been over this before, sadly it doesnt change the fact that over those seven tours lance still beat ullrich, basso, beloki et al.. it does raise the question of could lance have beaten dopers without doping, but again, as said before, you cannot assume ullrich to have riden doped his entire career based on proof regarding certain years etc... Basso, again, admitted to intention to dope, does not mean that in 04 and 05 he was doped..

interesting to talk about for a bit of fun, but needs far more analysis to be considered evidence..

 

[Anonymous]

if we go down those lines..

2008 - Sastre and Evans both beat a doped up Kohl in 2008

2007 - Sastre despite 3rd in 2007, and beating a doped up kohl in 2008 can only finish7 minutes behind contador..either contador was on something good, or sastre had a clean year..

2006 - Pereiro inherits the win after landis banned, but still manages to beat a doping Kloden.. Sastre in a competative third place..

on that basis Perieros win in 2006, Contadors win in 2007, Sastres win in 2008 are all open for dispute..

1999-2005 we have covered already..

1998 - Pantani wins, Ullrich second, BJ third.. youd have to look down to the lantern rouge for a winner of that one..

1997 - Ullrich, Virenque, Pantani, olano in fourth, escartin in fifth.. pick a clean one from that lot...

1996 - Riis, Ullrich, Virenque, and then Dufaux of Festina in fourth.. might be worth suggesting that Luc Leblanc was the last french winner of the tour de france...

1995 - Indurain beats doped up Riis and Zulle.. Laurant Jalabert, 8 minutes back.. winner of the tour de france?

the point is.. if we really look at it, in 95 tour de frances, we can probably, if we really put our minds to it, discount all but about 3 of the winners as being clean.. its not just lance..

 

[BroDeal]

there is of course one assumption made in all of those names, that if they where doping in one year, they had to be doping in another...

I am sure they were clean in years other than when they were caught. Maybe they only attempted to dope in other years.

I am also sure that Armstrong only doped in 1999. In other years, when he was encouraging his teammates to dope, he himself was clean.

 

[Anonymous]

I am also sure that Armstrong only doped in 1999. In other years, when he was encouraging his teammates to dope, he himself was clean.

this is pretty much my line of thought.. would explain the relative abscence of stage wins for support riders.. big george for example, only got his first stage win in lances final year.. theyd made sure to keep him off podiums prior to that.. (and i love george.. i think hes amazing and like many i dream of him winning P-R) but ive no doubt he was assisted to assist..

 

[tifosa]

but ive no doubt he was assisted to assist

Let's see haw many euphemisms we can use to substitute for the "D" word:

unnatural means of support
performance enhanced
jacked
boosted
strapped

feel free to add.

 

[El Imbatido]

On the juice
Shootin up
60%ing it
more than bread and water
using the ferrari
gettin the flu shot

It could go on and on

 

[ingsve]

Let's see haw many euphemisms we can use to substitute for the "D" word:

unnatural means of support
performance enhanced
jacked
boosted
strapped

feel free to add.

Victim of circumstace
Son of his time
peer preassured
unknowingly enhanched

and let's not forget

Immoral cheating F-ing SOB juice...

 

[Bala Verde]

Stolen from RBR. This pretty much speaks for itself:

lets look at the podiums in lances wins....

Top tens are even more instructive... and add the teams they rode for...

 

[BroDeal]

this is pretty much my line of thought.. would explain the relative abscence of stage wins for support riders.. big george for example, only got his first stage win in lances final year.. theyd made sure to keep him off podiums prior to that.. (and i love george.. i think hes amazing and like many i dream of him winning P-R) but ive no doubt he was assisted to assist..

Armstrong (other than 1999) was clean but all his domestiques were all on the gear? ROTFL.

If this were anyone else then I would think it was sarcasm.

 

[Bala Verde]

Victim of circumstace
Son of his time
peer preassured
unknowingly enhanched

and let's not forget

Immoral cheating F-ing SOB juice...

Is that why they use so much 'EPOxy' when they prep carbon bikes?

and I certainly don't trust Simeoni and his team 'CERAmica Flaminia – Bossini'. I am glad they had to stay home for this year's Giro

 

[Bala Verde]

I started to work from 1994 and put together the TdF top tens, including teams (suspicious or known for structural juicing), DS (shady), doctors (known or suspicious) and 'surprising' results or moves to different teams.

1994
1 Indurain, Miguel Banesto

2 Ugrumov, Piotr Gewiss-Balan
Teammates: Riis*, Berzin

3 Pantani, Marco Carrera Jeans - Tassoni
Doctor: Grazzi*.
Team Mates: Chiapucci*, Chiesa*

4 Leblanc, Luc Festina-Lotus

5 Virenque, Richard Festina-Lotus

6 Conti, Roberto Lampre-Panaria

7 Elli, Alberto GB - MG Maglificio
Team Mate: Fondriest*

8 Zülle, Alex O.N.C.E.
DS: Manuel Saíz Balbás
Team Mates: Breukink, Bruyneel, Dufaux, Etxebarria, Jalabert, Stephens, Diaz, Zabala, Palacios

9 Bölts, Udo Telekom
DS: Pevenage

10 Pulnikov, Vladimir Carrera Jeans - Tassoni
Doctor: Grazzi*.
Team Mates: Chiapucci*, Chiesa*

 

[Bala Verde]

1995
1 Miguel Indurain Banesto

2 Alex Zulle* O.N.C.E.
DS: Manuel Saíz Balbás
Team Mates: Jalabert, Mauri; three ONCE riders in the top 6.

3 Bjarne Riis* Gewiss - Ballan
Gewiss publicly known for their systematic D use, boosting results of previously unknown riders

4 Laurent Jalabert O.N.C.E.
Sprinter turned GC contender?

5 Ivan Gotti Gewiss - Ballan

6 Melchor Mauri O.N.C.E.
Comes in 6th with ONCE while when with Banesto the previous year he was 95th.

7 Fernando Escartin Mapei - GB

8 Tony Rominger Mapei - GB

9 Richard Virenque Festina-Lotus

10 Hernan Buenahora Kelme - Surena

 

[Ibanez]

I still love Lance's 'believe in miracles' speech whilst standing on the podium with Basso and Ullrich. Such lies.

 

[Escarabajo]

So - if you remove everyone that has not been mentioned in the same sentence as doping plus Lance, your TdF winners are:
2005 - Leipheimer
2004 - Azevedo
2003 - Zubeldia
2002 - Leipheimer
2001 - Kivilev
2000 - Escartin
1999 - Escartin

I might have overlooked something, but Levi as a two time TdF winner?

Escartin for the Doped Kelme Team??? I think making these lists is worthless. I have tried before and it is impossible to actually point at someone and say he did not do anything. Remember that there was organized systematic doping in a lot of the teams, so you don't need a criminal case for each one of these riders.
Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Armstrong (other than 1999) was clean but all his domestiques were all on the gear? ROTFL.

If this were anyone else then I would think it was sarcasm.

notice the original suggester of this doesnt get critisised.. if you read my other posts i also said i thought many of the "doping" riders would have been clear for some of those years in question.. i dont think ullrich doped EVERY year, same as Basso (who never even officially doped)... things are in context to the overall discussion..

con·text (kntkst)
n.
1. The part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular word or passage and determines its meaning.
2. The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.

 

[tifosa]

I think JV texted Andreu and referred to "D" as "hot sauce". Apt, considering the burn you feel once caught.