Team Sunweb thread

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I think the rules may sound overkill but most work places have rules
The emphasis at Sunweb /DSM is the team not the individual and it works as seen at Tour 2020

of course if you are a budding lone ranger type or want to do your own thing then its not for you ...

I think the issue with Matthews was not home work per say...he knew the score and could have done some thing.It goes back to the Tour of 2019 where he changed his training to ride for Dumoulin ...he complained alot about having to do that
 
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I think the rules may sound overkill but most work places have rules
The emphasis at Sunweb /DSM is the team not the individual and it works as seen at Tour 2020

of course if you are a budding lone ranger type or want to do your own thing then its not for you ...

I think the issue with Matthews was not home work per say...he knew the score and could have done some thing.It goes back to the Tour of 2019 where he changed his training to ride for Dumoulin ...he complained alot about having to do that
The problem with was with Sunweb and not Matthews - You don't have Matthews in the team if are chasing GC - So in 2019, Matthews should have ridden the Giro and in 2020 he should have ridden the TDF.
 
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I think the rules may sound overkill but most work places have rules
The emphasis at Sunweb /DSM is the team not the individual and it works as seen at Tour 2020

of course if you are a budding lone ranger type or want to do your own thing then its not for you ...

I think the issue with Matthews was not home work per say...he knew the score and could have done some thing.It goes back to the Tour of 2019 where he changed his training to ride for Dumoulin ...he complained alot about having to do that
Matthews didn't complain about having to change his training to support Dumoulin, he was lamenting Dumoulin having to pull out at the 11th hour because his training didn't suit how the team wanted him to ride without Dumoulin there.
 
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The thing with DSM/Sunweb is they're extremely good at attracting talent. They excel in the presentations they gave to the guys they're interested in and go in great detail to explain how they work on a scientific level. It impresses a lot of young talents.
It's easy to sign riders, it's another thing to guide them after signing them.
I find it sometimes a little exaggerated how some cycling "experts" and commentators call them the perfect talent "factory". Getting good results with some of them makes perfect sense as they're obviously some of the biggest young talents on the planet. Does that mean they guide young talents better than other teams? No. Yes for a bunch of talents their approach might work but let's be honest here: young talents ride for them thanks to they way they negotiate with these riders before signing them (to their main team or their U23 team).
 
The thing with DSM/Sunweb is they're extremely good at attracting talent. They excel in the presentations they gave to the guys they're interested in and go in great detail to explain how they work on a scientific level. It impresses a lot of young talents.
It's easy to sign riders, it's another thing to guide them after signing them.
I find it sometimes a little exaggerated how some cycling "experts" and commentators call them the perfect talent "factory". Getting good results with some of them makes perfect sense as they're obviously some of the biggest young talents on the planet. Does that mean they guide young talents better than other teams? No. Yes for a bunch of talents their approach might work but let's be honest here: young talents ride for them thanks to they way they negotiate with these riders before signing them (to their main team or their U23 team).
You gotta think that lettimg em go quite easily is also a big draw for young riders as well.
 
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You gotta think that lettimg em go quite easily is also a big draw for young riders as well.
That's an interesting take! They offer long contracts too. So for a young guy there are some clear advantages to this:
  • Assurance to be under contract for a while
  • If you're killing it, no objection to moving to another team if compensated
If you're signed to a team like Ineos or UAE (who also offer young talents longer contracts) it wouldn't be as easy to get out of a contract.
 
The thing with DSM/Sunweb is they're extremely good at attracting talent. They excel in the presentations they gave to the guys they're interested in and go in great detail to explain how they work on a scientific level. It impresses a lot of young talents.
It's easy to sign riders, it's another thing to guide them after signing them.
I find it sometimes a little exaggerated how some cycling "experts" and commentators call them the perfect talent "factory". Getting good results with some of them makes perfect sense as they're obviously some of the biggest young talents on the planet. Does that mean they guide young talents better than other teams? No. Yes for a bunch of talents their approach might work but let's be honest here: young talents ride for them thanks to they way they negotiate with these riders before signing them (to their main team or their U23 team).
Does it matter how/why they sign these young talented riders?

Skil/Giant/Sunweb, on a limited budget and without making too many big names signings, got results with a lot of young riders who didn't have much in the way of results before, and who then went on to get results for other teams. That's the definition of a "talent factory." Ok, so they gave good presentations to the young riders they knew to have talent; if that presentation amounted to "we turned Marcel Kittel, John Degenkolb, Warren Barguil and Tom Dumoulin into the riders they are today," that's not just blowing smoke. That's making claims, and backing them up.
 
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team like Ineos or UAE (who also offer young talents longer contracts) it wouldn't be as easy to get out of a contract.
I don't have an example to back it up, but I feel like Ineos have a history of letting people leave if the rider felt that things weren't working out for whatever reason. It doesn't happen much, as staying around for that sweet dump truck of cash that pulls up to your house once a month is obviously a draw, too.

Also, Ineos have been very flexible with riders' goals; allowing Viviani/Cavendish to work towards the Olympics etc.
 
Does it matter how/why they sign these young talented riders?

Skil/Giant/Sunweb, on a limited budget and without making too many big names signings, got results with a lot of young riders who didn't have much in the way of results before, and who then went on to get results for other teams. That's the definition of a "talent factory." Ok, so they gave good presentations to the young riders they knew to have talent; if that presentation amounted to "we turned Marcel Kittel, John Degenkolb, Warren Barguil and Tom Dumoulin into the riders they are today," that's not just blowing smoke. That's making claims, and backing them up.
I think he meant it's not yet clear whether they truely transform them into those riders or whether they just accompany great young riders while they grow into the athletes they were expected to turn into anyway and with every half decent team.
In my opinion it's clear they are doing some things truely right (however much I dislike their approach on a personal level) but how much of the success of a rider like Hirschi can be attributed to them is always hard to judge.
 
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I think he meant it's not yet clear whether they truely transform them into those riders or whether they just accompany great young riders while they grow into the athletes they were expected to turn into anyway and with every half decent team.
In my opinion it's clear they are doing some things truely right (however much I dislike their approach on a personal level) but how much of the success of a rider like Hirschi can be attributed to them is always hard to judge.
There's a couple of ways you can look at that. Kittel, for example, was obviously a talent. And riding at Giant suited him, but then riding with Quickstep also suited him. But then riding for Katusha didn't work out.

There's a debate to be had around "Hirschi would have made it at any team," but Sunweb was the team where he did "make it."

Also, Barguil and Degenkolb had the best years of their careers as Sunweb/Giant riders. Does the fact that they haven't matched those results since prove, or disprove, that Team Spekenbrink are a talent factory?
 
Clearly, I think, you can say SunwebDSM are great at developing talent. About 75% of that is spotting the talent in the first place and not screwing up their first year or two. (See, for contrast, Trek with young Quinn Simmons -- talented, no doubt, but they wound up suspending their own homegrown hero in his first year....). Ineos are another team that excels in scouting.

Keeping that talent is another matter, as we've seen. But why can't the team's business model be based on finding promising young riders and letting them move on when they're ready? About 50% of the world's football clubs operate like that. Unfortunately cycling doesn't have transfer fees, lending etc. But can you imagine a Pro Conti team "selling" someone like Bernal to Ineos for a few million euros? It would make their season, financially.
 
According to Zonneveld, it was Sunweb/DSM that tried to get rid of Hirschi, and not the other way around. Why would the team want to get rid of their single most prolific rider of the year? Is Hirschi such a jackass that he was impossible to work with? Or was there something else going on?
 
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According to Zonneveld, it was Sunweb/DSM that tried to get rid of Hirschi, and not the other way around. Why would the team want to get rid of their single most prolific rider of the year? Is Hirschi such a jackass that he was impossible to work with? Or was there something else going on?
Well if they say a breach of trust, lack of transparency then it does vaguely hint at things of the Clinical nature.
 
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young rider, man of the TDF, super combactive, podium at Liege and Worlds, winner at Fleche. I think he began to be pissed with the 48 rules of behaviour at Sunweb, where you have to do EVERYTHING robotically following every step imposed by the team. maybe he said fyck it, I won big, I know how to do things without you telling me with which foot I have to step on tne bus or which energy bar I can or cannot eat after the ride.
 
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Hirschi's case is not about rules and training ...he was got rid of because he was seen as a risk to the team and to the sponsors ..

I think its very clear what that means.
I cant see UAE caring too much if he gets the results he got last year
 
young rider, man of the TDF, super combactive, podium at Liege and Worlds, winner at Fleche. I think he began to be pissed with the 48 rules of behaviour at Sunweb, where you have to do EVERYTHING robotically following every step imposed by the team. maybe he said fyck it, I won big, I know how to do things without you telling me with which foot I have to step on tne bus or which energy bar I can or cannot eat after the ride.
The story is that the team dumped HIM, not the other way around.
 
The story is that the team dumped HIM, not the other way around.
yes, the team dumoed him BECAUSE he wasnt respecting the rules anymore, or they saw he was going that way.
no primadonna at Sunweb. remember Barguil, sent home from the Vuelta 2017 after his stellar TDF. Sunweb got huge exposure during the Tour. yet they sent him home when he wanted more freedom at the Vuelta.
that´s the Sunweb way of doing things? like it or not.
Sunweb´s team objectives and team philosophy are there to stay, there´s a view behind the "keep challenging" mantra.
team work comes first. no athlete must step beyond that. they´ve come a long was since the Skil-Shimano years.
they started as a small pro-conti, and they little by little went big. the Vuelta break-out, then 1 Giro win, then Giro/Tour 2nd. then Giro 2nd and 3rd, Sanremo, Roubaix, Fleche, polka dots and Izoard record etc. they showed it can be done. I loved Oropa in 2017
all done with the view of the team comes first.

fans LOVE to put doping everywhere. be sure if it was doping, neither Sunweb-DSM nor Hirschi would have said a word. it would be too stupid for Sunweb to say "a risk to the team and sponsor"
there would be silence.
 
yes, the team dumoed him BECAUSE he wasnt respecting the rules anymore, or they saw he was going that way.
no primadonna at Sunweb. remember Barguil, sent home from the Vuelta 2017 after his stellar TDF. Sunweb got huge exposure during the Tour. yet they sent him home when he wanted more freedom at the Vuelta.
that´s the Sunweb way of doing things? like it or not.
Sunweb´s team objectives and team philosophy are there to stay, there´s a view behind the "keep challenging" mantra.
team work comes first. no athlete must step beyond that. they´ve come a long was since the Skil-Shimano years.
they started as a small pro-conti, and they little by little went big. the Vuelta break-out, then 1 Giro win, then Giro/Tour 2nd. then Giro 2nd and 3rd, Sanremo, Roubaix, Fleche, polka dots and Izoard record etc. they showed it can be done. I loved Oropa in 2017
all done with the view of the team comes first.

fans LOVE to put doping everywhere. be sure if it was doping, neither Sunweb-DSM nor Hirschi would have said a word. it would be too stupid for Sunweb to say "a risk to the team and sponsor"
there would be silence.

Different media now coming out with stories that basically DSM team doesn't trust the guy and that's why they wanted him out of the team. rest should probably be discussed in the clinic.
 

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