Testosterone Replacement Therapy

[spalco]

Ok, yet again in a fairly big scandal by MMA standards a fighter tested positive (the scandal wasn't so much about the elevated testosterone but because he wasn't allowed to fight) and explains this with a TUE for testosterone. Here's a quote from mmafighting.com that explains what happened:

Marquardt said in August of 2010 he began feeling sluggish and that his memory was off. His MD did tests, which came back for low testosterone. He then received clearance from a physician to undergo Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT).

He began HRT under a Therapeutic Use Exemption* for his fight against Dan Miller at UFC 128 in New Jersey. Treatment was. The New Jersey SAC, which oversaw the Miller bout, approved the testosterone therapy.

Says his MD advised him to undertake a "more aggressive therapy" three weeks out from his fight vs. Rick Story at UFC on Versus 4. Two weeks out from the fight he took a blood test which revealed high levels; on the advice of his MD he stopped the treatment. Never the less, the test he took on the day of the weigh ins was above the limit allowed limit by the Pennsylvania SAC.

This appears to be very common in MMA, I'm hearing about it all the time and it's apparently not a big deal. (the fans certainly don't care) So my question is if this is allowed in other sports too and if yes, doesn't that make a complete mockery of anti-doping procedures in general? Of course, MMA isn't regulated the way more established sports are so maybe the answer isn't "yes", but I was wondering...

Is it even public knowledge which athletes have TUEs and for what? Could I get a TUE for EPO?

 

[Oldman]

I've been yammering about this in discussions related to Masters doping. Since doctors actually seem to be selling the idea an actual TUE amounts to a reciept for your PED. As a truly older person I'd reserve the option to use testosterone if my quality of life was in jeopardy. Racing my bike is something I enjoy but my specific version of "quality of life" or "low T" doesn't mean bending the rules for the aged or infirmed. It's a tough sport and it should be. I'll take up golf if it meant that much.

 

[orbeas]

T rt

I've been yammering about this in discussions related to Masters doping. Since doctors actually seem to be selling the idea an actual TUE amounts to a reciept for your PED. As a truly older person I'd reserve the option to use testosterone if my quality of life was in jeopardy. Racing my bike is something I enjoy but my specific version of "quality of life" or "low T" doesn't mean bending the rules for the aged or infirmed. It's a tough sport and it should be. I'll take up golf if it meant that much.

with the UCI masters Cross being held in the USA in 2012, some of the drugs test results, if they are actually taken, will be very interesting and I can see various riders running to there doctors for respective TUE certificates.

 

[Stingray34]

I have pituitary disease and use TRT. It is a life-saver in my case, as I get so low and weak I can't get out of bed if I go a week or two without the gels (something I used to do often as they are sticky to apply and a general hassle.). I also get suicidally depressed without treatment. No kidding. After a scare a little while ago I make sure I use regularly everyday now.

I don't ride much, to be honest, so I'm always catching up with my fitness. The T-Gel certainly helps, but it helps me in every facet of my life as well, so I can't tell if it's performance-enhancing or just helps me be normal. I'm only prescribed enough to get into a normal range, so I don't know what being otherwise healthy and supplementing/abusing would be like.

I'm in Australia and we don't have a 'wellness industry' quite like the US, so I haven't seen one of those docs if you're wondering. I'm quite young, too: 38.

EDIT: As for racing, I agree it's prob a step too far to use T even if you're genuinely deficient. If you club race as a social thing, I think it would be OK. I don't race, BTW, I'd be utterly slaughtered.

 

[brianf7]

I've been yammering about this in discussions related to Masters doping. Since doctors actually seem to be selling the idea an actual TUE amounts to a reciept for your PED. As a truly older person I'd reserve the option to use testosterone if my quality of life was in jeopardy. Racing my bike is something I enjoy but my specific version of "quality of life" or "low T" doesn't mean bending the rules for the aged or infirmed. It's a tough sport and it should be. I'll take up golf if it meant that much.

WADA wont bend any rule on testosterone you need a formal diagnosis by 3 qualified endocrinologists.
You must prove you testicales cant produce testosterone then a TUE is issued.

There is no way around it low testosterone is not an excuse. You must be Hypogonard before a TUE is isued and you need a new one every year .
It costs a fortune to get a report from an endocrinologist $1,000 every time you need a TUE you will need 3 reports .

WADA have no testing at club level only in age groups and open races masters games.
there is no point in testing at club level where they run handicap grades testosterone will only take you up a grade or so.

Testosterone will not turn a Donky into a race horse.

 

[brianf7]

I have pituitary disease and use TRT. It is a life-saver in my case, as I get so low and weak I can't get out of bed if I go a week or two without the gels (something I used to do often as they are sticky to apply and a general hassle.). I also get suicidally depressed without treatment. No kidding. After a scare a little while ago I make sure I use regularly everyday now.

I don't ride much, to be honest, so I'm always catching up with my fitness. The T-Gel certainly helps, but it helps me in every facet of my life as well, so I can't tell if it's performance-enhancing or just helps me be normal. I'm only prescribed enough to get into a normal range, so I don't know what being otherwise healthy and supplementing/abusing would be like.

I'm in Australia and we don't have a 'wellness industry' quite like the US, so I haven't seen one of those docs if you're wondering. I'm quite young, too: 38.

EDIT: As for racing, I agree it's prob a step too far to use T even if you're genuinely deficient. If you club race as a social thing, I think it would be OK. I don't race, BTW, I'd be utterly slaughtered.

If you have a diagnosis get your Doctor to put you on implants they last 20 weeks its much better and steady state of testosterone.

 

[brianf7]

with the UCI masters Cross being held in the USA in 2012, some of the drugs test results, if they are actually taken, will be very interesting and I can see various riders running to there doctors for respective TUE certificates.

No good running to a Doctor after being tested if then Doctor prescribed it without a diagnosis you sue him . if you got the diagnosis you get a TUE .
Other point if you get a TUE before you signe an anti doping agreement which is mandatory for open national events.

You are not required to go to CAS if they wont aprove it you can claim discrimination in a local court.
When you sign the agrement everything is heard at CAS

 

[krebs303]

I've used injectable testosterone and I've used gel but have not heard of implants thanks I'll ask my doctor. I know of the depression and lack of energy at one time my total T was down to 75 (normal 300-1200) I was miserable but the effects of treatment are immediate. No more depression, fatigue or night sweats.

 

[Oldman]

I've used injectable testosterone and I've used gel but have not heard of implants thanks I'll ask my doctor. I know of the depression and lack of energy at one time my total T was down to 75 (normal 300-1200) I was miserable but the effects of treatment are immediate. No more depression, fatigue or night sweats.

I hope you can enjoy some vigorous riding. I'd go nuts if I couldn't alleviate stress and would readily pursue your regime if affected like you. Good luck and hope treatment gets more regular results.

 

[Berzin]

Testosterone will not turn a Donky into a race horse.

Tell that to the donkeys who are winning those plastic medals every weekend in Cat 5 races all over the country.

I'm sure they'll smile at your assertion.

 

[brianf7]

Tell that to the donkeys who are winning those plastic medals every weekend in Cat 5 races all over the country.

I'm sure they'll smile at your assertion.

I know what you are talking about but that is not a doping issue its a handicap issue they need to move up to cat 4 or 3 or 2 untill they find it hard enough and leave us old guys alone to our race.and our pocket money.

You need a lot of testosterone to go that well and its not very comfortable ounce the race is over headacks stiff soar joints sleepless nights all down to total Testosterone being up around 25-30pmol. forget it not worth the few $$ you win or the plastic medals.

 

[brianf7]

I've used injectable testosterone and I've used gel but have not heard of implants thanks I'll ask my doctor. I know of the depression and lack of energy at one time my total T was down to 75 (normal 300-1200) I was miserable but the effects of treatment are immediate. No more depression, fatigue or night sweats.

Injectable testosterone in your bum is no good you will disperse it to quickly on the bike the implants inserted into the fat tissue in the gut wall will ounce they settle down 7 days give you total T of around 15pmol and last 20 weeks that is not high its just normal.

Surgery at your GP will take about 1 hour but the Doc can see others while he is doing it leaving you in the hands of his nurse.. local anestetic 10 mins to work then a little insision and he will use a special tool to put 3 pellets in then close it up no stiches it will stop bleding after 1 hour and its all over the dressing comes off 2 days later.

Make sure you GP has the correct tool if not find a Doctor who has .

 

[Le breton]

Mma?

Ok, yet again in a fairly big scandal by MMA standards a fighter tested positive

MMA? What is MMA? Any link with M&M?

 

[python]

So my question is if this is allowed in other sports too and if yes, doesn't that make a complete mockery of anti-doping procedures in general?

a direct answer - no it does not.

according to wada code, all signatories (about 50 federations) can grant a tue based on a specific, wada-postulated procedure.

but it does points to challenges of seeing doping/anti-doping as a diabolical b&w issue. it also points to the potential abuse of the otherwise sensible system (tue for those who truly need them like asthmatics)

Is it even public knowledge which athletes have TUEs and for what?

it's considered confidential medical information unless an athlete chose to disclose it.

Could I get a TUE for EPO?

theoretically - yes. particularly if the sport you compete in does not benefit from the enhanced oxygen transfer.

in endurance sports a tue like that is exceptionally unlikely.

 

[WD-40.]

Injectable testosterone in your bum is no good you will disperse it to quickly on the bike the implants inserted into the fat tissue in the gut wall will ounce they settle down 7 days give you total T of around 15pmol and last 20 weeks that is not high its just normal.

Surgery at your GP will take about 1 hour but the Doc can see others while he is doing it leaving you in the hands of his nurse.. local anestetic 10 mins to work then a little insision and he will use a special tool to put 3 pellets in then close it up no stiches it will stop bleding after 1 hour and its all over the dressing comes off 2 days later.

Well don't listen to this guy for medical advise.

1) Claim - Injectable testosterone in your bum is no good you will disperse it to quickly on the bike ...

Fact - Truth is that it depends on the ester. Testosterone Undecanoate IM will have a half life of several weeks or longer and is MUCH easier and less invasive to administer than the "stone age" pellets making it a much better choice in general.

You need a lot of testosterone to go that well and its not very comfortable ounce the race is over headacks stiff soar joints sleepless nights all down to total Testosterone being up around 25-30pmol. forget it not worth the few $$ you win or the plastic medals.

2) headacks stiff soar joints sleepless nights all down to total Testosterone being up around 25-30pmol...

Truth - Again where are you getting educated on this? Headaches, stiff sore joints, and sleepless nights due to testosterone which is within (highish) normal range. Complete nonsense in fact men usually feel better at this level than they do at mid normal ranges.

This is a classic example of the garbage information that gets thrown around this forum by people who don't have a clue. Please please stick to facts, making things up or spreading wrong information to appear knowledgeable is not smart or funny.

 

[Mambo95]

MMA? What is MMA? Any link with M&M?

Mixed Martial Arts.

Basically just fighting. It's quite popular. (Not my sort of thing though).

 

[SpeedWay]

Well don't listen to this guy for medical advise.

...

This is a classic example of the garbage information that gets thrown around this forum by people who don't have a clue. Please please stick to facts, making things up or spreading wrong information to appear knowledgeable is not smart or funny.

Apropos, but I disagree on one point. Once the hyenas pledge allegiance to the non-facts, this is one of the funniest cycling forums on the web. It's like a twit race on acid.

 

[WD-40.]

Apropos, but I disagree on one point. Once the hyenas pledge allegiance to the non-facts, this is one of the funniest cycling forums on the web. It's like a twit race on acid.

No I agree it is indeed very funny, I like I'm sure many others with more than two brain cells come here for kicks and entertainment for the most part.

 

[krebs303]

The injectable seems to work for a tad over 3 weeks. I purchase it over the counter and inject myself so no shot in the bum but rather the thighs or the stomach. The gels come from the Doctor. The gel I must drive to the states for (5-7hr round trip $35 co-pay) or $16 OTC here. So if I don't need any thing else in the States, I purchase here. The gel gives much more even delivery.

 

[brianf7]

Well don't listen to this guy for medical advise.

1) Claim - Injectable testosterone in your bum is no good you will disperse it to quickly on the bike ...

Fact - Truth is that it depends on the ester. Testosterone Undecanoate IM will have a half life of several weeks or longer and is MUCH easier and less invasive to administer than the "stone age" pellets making it a much better choice in general.



2) headacks stiff soar joints sleepless nights all down to total Testosterone being up around 25-30pmol...

Truth - Again where are you getting educated on this? Headaches, stiff sore joints, and sleepless nights due to testosterone which is within (highish) normal range. Complete nonsense in fact men usually feel better at this level than they do at mid normal ranges.

This is a classic example of the garbage information that gets thrown around this forum by people who don't have a clue. Please please stick to facts, making things up or spreading wrong information to appear knowledgeable is not smart or funny.

Quite clear you have never had the stuff all above side effects are listed in clinicle trials to which I have taken part in many.
T in around 25-30 pmol is not nice it needs to be around 18-22 pmol to do any good and I am talking from experience
not something I have read on the net.

25-30pmol will also create water retention waight gain and myopathy so go ahead and try it see what happens

again testosterone in large amounts will cause left ventricle wall thyickening
in athleats so unless you aim to keep riding untill you are 80yo it will become hypertrophic and will fail.

that is a known fact RIP there is life after cycling.
regular testing and monitoring by a qualified endocrinologist and WADA cant do anything about it. They will however ask for test results at least twice a year.

 

[brianf7]

The injectable seems to work for a tad over 3 weeks. I purchase it over the counter and inject myself so no shot in the bum but rather the thighs or the stomach. The gels come from the Doctor. The gel I must drive to the states for (5-7hr round trip $35 co-pay) or $16 OTC here. So if I don't need any thing else in the States, I purchase here. The gel gives much more even delivery.

There is a new cream called androforte 5 it is very good you can buy it by mail order from Perth . $100 aud enough for 55 days or more . google it.

When I say I speak with experience I mean 40 years of TRT from oral. injections.patches and implants but I also say get a qualified doctor a professor of Endocrinology like Prof David Handlesman at Concord medicale centere Sydney or someone like him in what ever state you are in.
It is a life long treatment so get it right or you will suffer later on. more is not better get the correct dose for your age.

 

[WD-40.]

Quite clear you have never had the stuff all above side effects are listed in clinicle trials to which I have taken part in many.
T in around 25-30 pmol is not nice it needs to be around 18-22 pmol to do any good and I am talking from experience
not something I have read on the net.

25-30pmol will also create water retention waight gain and myopathy so go ahead and try it see what happens

again testosterone in large amounts will cause left ventricle wall thyickening
in athleats so unless you aim to keep riding untill you are 80yo it will become hypertrophic and will fail.

that is a known fact RIP there is life after cycling.
regular testing and monitoring by a qualified endocrinologist and WADA cant do anything about it. They will however ask for test results at least twice a year.

1) Claim - "again testosterone in large amounts will cause left ventricle wall thyickening
in athleats so unless you aim to keep riding untill you are 80yo it will become hypertrophic and will fail."

- Truth, I'm not going to waste time digging up studies done on exceptionally heavy steroid users which showed little to no LVH over those who had never used androgens. Just because a doctor says it is true does not mean that it is. Go back to the studies that show the proof in the pudding not from second or third hand info.

2) Claim - "T in around 25-30 pmol is not nice it needs to be around 18-22 pmol to do any good and I am talking from experience
not something I have read on the net."

- Truth, really SHGB and many other factors NEED to be taken into account before you can take a precise total testosterone figure like you have come up with.

3) Claim - "25-30pmol will also create water retention waight gain and myopathy so go ahead and try it see what happens"

- Truth, Again not necessarily, it depends on many factors. If you are over weight then a testosterone will lead to more water retention due to people with higher bodyfat having more aromatise enzyme which resides in the fat cells, this in turn converts testosterone into estrogen and will skew the ideal testosterone to estrogen ratio. Not good and this will lead to excess water gain - due to the effect of estrogen. Now take a lean bodybuilder who has BF levels of less than 10% and has a total testosterone level of perhaps 200pmol or higher (due to exogenous androgen use) but with little to no water retention due to being lean without an AI, obviously not every bodybuilder is smart enough to get lean prior to androgen use and those poor would will retain water with androgen use.

 

[mountaindew]

You'd hold water regardless of weight.

 

[WD-40.]

You'd hold water regardless of weight.

Again generally no more than normal at 25-30pmol if you are genuinely lean. Bodyfat level makes a hell of a difference with regard to water retention but 30pmol is not particularly high.

 

[John2018]

Re:

I've used injectable testosterone and I've used gel but have not heard of implants thanks I'll ask my doctor. I know of the depression and lack of energy at one time my total T was down to 75 (normal 300-1200) I was miserable but the effects of treatment are immediate. No more depression, fatigue or night sweats.

I hope you can enjoy some vigorous riding. I'd go nuts if I couldn't alleviate stress and would readily pursue your regime if affected like you. Good luck and hope treatment gets more regular results.

I had an almost similar situation. Only after contacting an experienced doctor I was able to improve my condition with testosterone replacement therapy.