The Banesto Train in the mountains

May 24, 2011
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for every thread that continues the double standards you measure the grand tour winners against, that shows how some of you are not anti-doping per se, but simply fickle anti-dopers, picky about which doper you want caught, I will remind you USPS were not the first to build super strong teams for the mountains.

Jeff Bernard, Gerard Rue...amazing how well Jeff started to ride again once he joined Banesto. Did the Banesto team maybe bringt them modern methods ???
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Exroadman24902 said:
for every thread that continues the double standards you measure the grand tour winners against, that shows how some of you are not anti-doping per se, but simply fickle anti-dopers, picky about which doper you want caught, I will remind you USPS were not the first to build super strong teams for the mountains.

Jeff Bernard, Gerard Rue...amazing how well Jeff started to ride again once he joined Banesto. Did the Banesto team maybe bringt them modern methods ???
Yes.


Next question.
 
My perception at the time was that Indurain didn't have an adequate team. More often than not, Indurain was completely isolated way earlier than he should. I was just a kid so I don't think that perception was very accurate, but there it is.

I don't think Bernard did anything extraordinary, by the way. The guy was supposed to be Hinault's heir, and all he did was become a great domestique.
 
Jun 12, 2011
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Considering the biggest criticism of Big Mig at the time was that he sat on with the climbers,I don't remember anything about the Banesto Train.

There was one? :confused:
 
May 26, 2010
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hrotha said:
My perception at the time was that Indurain didn't have an adequate team. More often than not, Indurain was completely isolated way earlier than he should. I was just a kid so I don't think that perception was very accurate, but there it is.

I don't think Bernard did anything extraordinary, by the way. The guy was supposed to be Hinault's heir, and all he did was become a great domestique.
For me that aint bad in the world of Pro Cycling considering the average career span in the pro peloton is 3 years. Also maybe Beranrd was better but he lost out to a small improvement for himself with EPO why others enjoyed a bigger benefit from it. But that has been shown look at HWMNBN winning 7 with it after 99 whereas he could barely finish it before. Maybe Bernard would won at least 1 all things being equal.

But i dont remember a banesto train. Any youtube's of it?
 
But if memory serves Bernard started to decline and failed to fulfill his potential before the EPO era, in 1988-1990, right? According to Wikipedia there were some injuries involved, and I seem to remember he wasn't all that strong mentally.
 
Feb 22, 2011
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The fact that googling the phrase "banesto train" leads only back to this thread in circular interweb motion is all I need to be convinced that they were all dopers and all of their results should be replaced with the names of disney princesses. Thanks for raising the issue, it's truly relevant.
 
May 3, 2010
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This is really just another twist on the 'they were all at it so USP weren't so bad' red herring so beloved of the fanboys, alongside of course the T-Mob were all made up of DDR dopers party line that seems to be doing the rounds at the moment.

In terms of teams with 'trains' pre-USP. The 'uber' team was of course ONCE, I'll leave others to play 6 degrees of separation.
 
For anyone who is old enough to have seen both the Indurain-era and the Armstrong-era it is utterly ridiculous to suggest that there was such a thing as a Banesto-train, espcecially in comparison to the USPS-train we could all witness. I distinctly remember that almost all the followers, for example on Dutch tetelvision and Belgian television, said they had never witnessed a display of collective team power such as in the Armstrong-era. And neither had I and I am most definitely old enough to remember both era's vividly.

Regards
GJ
 
May 26, 2010
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GJB123 said:
For anyone who is old enough to have seen both the Indurain-era and the Armstrong-era it is utterly ridiculous to suggest that there was such a thing as a Banesto-train, espcecially in comparison to the USPS-train we could all witness. I distinctly remember that almost all the followers, for example on Dutch tetelvision and Belgian television, said they had never witnessed a display of collective team power such as in the Armstrong-era. And neither had I and I am most definitely old enough to remember both era's vividly.

Regards
GJ
collective team power really translates to collective team doping with Ferarri :rolleyes:
 
Feb 23, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
But i dont remember a banesto train. Any youtube's of it?
You're right, I don't think there was one in the sense that OP means it.

Banesto did have great riders like De Las Cuevas, Rué and Delgado as a super-domestique but when the chips were down, Indurain would usually follow the moves on his own. Bernard meanwhile certainly benefited from not being under pressure to perform for all of France on a French team. Carrera, Gatorade, Ariostea, ONCE were all strong teams back then but outside of TTTs not often sparkling in terms of collective effort.

I think that in the very early 90s at least, a graph plot of the relative capabilities of riders in the peloton would look like a stage profile in the Dolomites. Even Conconi spread the love around a bit in those days. So we had to wait just a little longer for the whole-team approach that followed.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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My recollection was that Indurain had to cut deals with other teams to control things. It was also said that he purposely didn't win road stages as he could then `gift them', in order to buy favours.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Exroadman24902 said:
for every thread that continues the double standards you measure the grand tour winners against, that shows how some of you are not anti-doping per se, but simply fickle anti-dopers, picky about which doper you want caught, I will remind you USPS were not the first to build super strong teams for the mountains.

Jeff Bernard, Gerard Rue...amazing how well Jeff started to ride again once he joined Banesto. Did the Banesto team maybe bringt them modern methods ???
Yes.

The only "double-standard" you'll find is that there won't be a host of people denying it.
 
Benotti69 said:
collective team power really translates to collective team doping with Ferarri :rolleyes:
I thought I understated it perfectly well, but perhaps you are right that some are in need of a more explicit statement in that respect. ;)

Regards
GJ
 
Jul 4, 2009
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...just to put some of the I can't remember, I wasn't born yet or it doesn't jive with the axe I'm grinding today responses into perspective here is a link to the 1994 Banesto team...there are some real quality riders there that could form one heck of a train...other riders of very high quality that were in other years associated with Banesto were Rondon and De La Cuevas....that being said the last two tours that Indurain participated in, Banesto had teams that were relatively weak...

http://www.cyclingarchives.com/ploegfiche.php?id=9081

Cheers

blutto
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
This is really just another twist on the 'they were all at it so USP weren't so bad' red herring so beloved of the fanboys, alongside of course the T-Mob were all made up of DDR dopers party line that seems to be doing the rounds at the moment.

In terms of teams with 'trains' pre-USP. The 'uber' team was of course ONCE, I'll leave others to play 6 degrees of separation.
No, this is becoming a typical "we don't accept any other dopingtalk than that about LA and USPS, so we derail the thread with LA talk to keep on track"
I guess benotti won the thread again. Wonder if this guy is able to post one single post without naming his greatest passion.

btw, I see you mentioning your Telekom-DDR/GDR-Klöden-Ullrich-doper all along and everywhere.
Dear schwuchtel, just for me and all the others:
Tell me and all the others when the DDR system was finished. What year ?
You might learn very much by the research you have to do now.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Hawkwood said:
My recollection was that Indurain had to cut deals with other teams to control things. It was also said that he purposely didn't win road stages as he could then `gift them', in order to buy favours.
That wasn't just Indurain. That was common practise, and still is.
Give and take mostly works/worked fine.
 
blutto said:
...just to put some of the I can't remember, I wasn't born yet or it doesn't jive with the axe I'm grinding today responses into perspective here is a link to the 1994 Banesto team...there are some real quality riders there that could form one heck of a train...other riders of very high quality that were in other years associated with Banesto were Rondon and De La Cuevas....that being said the last two tours that Indurain participated in, Banesto had teams that were relatively weak...

http://www.cyclingarchives.com/ploegfiche.php?id=9081

Cheers

blutto
There's a difference between having a good team (which Banesto had) and completely dominating and blocking most mountain stages (which Banesto never did). No one's denying that Banesto was good, or that they had a teamwide doping program at the very least by 1995-1996.
 
May 3, 2010
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and in english? If you were to post in a more coherent manner then I might be able to answer your question(s). Can you try again please. But as it is - I see a lot of letters randomly put together but without any meaning.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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hrotha said:
The OP talks about US Postal and alleged double standards. What did you want us to discuss?
The Banesto Train in the mountains ?

Just go on. Should be really interesting to have another USPS/Lance thread, where the usual prayers can be prayed.
 
Cobblestoned said:
The Banesto Train in the mountains ?

Just go on. Should be really interesting to have another USPS/Lance thread, where the usual prayers can be prayed.
You missed the point. This is how the OP framed the discussion: Banesto compared to US Postal. If you have any complaints, throw them at Exroadman.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
and in english? If you were to post in a more coherent manner then I might be able to answer your question(s). Can you try again please. But as it is - I see a lot of letters randomly put together but without any meaning.
What part of "Tell me and all the others when the DDR system was finished. What year ?" do you not understand and what is wrong about the language.

Please point it outj *** edited by mod ***
 
May 3, 2010
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Cobblestoned said:
What part of "Tell me and all the others when the DDR system was finished. What year ?" do you not understand and what is wrong about the language.

Please point it out,***edited by mod****.

It doesn't make any sense - that is the problem. I just have no idea what you are asking or why? The words you are writing don't i) make any sense or ii) have any relevance to my post or the original topic.

***edited by mod ***
 
Mar 8, 2010
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hrotha said:
You missed the point. This is how the OP framed the discussion: Banesto compared to US Postal. If you have any complaints, throw them at Exroadman.
You are close to beeing successfull building your own world.
Just go on.
Is *** edited by mod *** right about his claim that this is just another Lance-apologize thread, and that there is no real interest talking about Banesto ?
 

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