The Better Overall Rider: Evans or Contador

[LaFlorecita]

If he had a puncture and no one had come back to tow tim and as a result he would have lost the Tour — then we might have said the team didn't work for him. So he was entirely protected by Astana sitting at Lance's wheel most of the time.

Yeah so Boonen was lying

 

[airstream]

Yeah so Boonen was lying

Boonen has nothing to do with that. A rider rides in the pack where he wants. The team preferred Lance as a leader. Have you ever wondered why?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Boonen has nothing to do with that. A rider rides in the pack where he wants.

The problem was that Alberto didn't want to ride in the back of the peloton

The team preferred Lance as a leader. Have you ever wondered why?

Yes, and I came to the conclusion that it's because Lance is a manipulative *******

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Have to agree with Airstream here. Noone can say that AC had less help in the 09 tour than for example giro 08

 

[theyoungest]

As for who cares, you could aim that at any thread, so that point is moot. But for the record, given the number of people that voted, clearly quite a few.

I mean: what's the relevance? Fading star who at the twilight of his career had his dream result vs. best GT rider in the world at the apex of his career. It's a bit random. They're different types of rider, both of them happen to be good at GTs but Contador is clearly a cut above everyone else. Evans is also a reasonable one day racer but not to the extent that it lifts him above Contador... IMHO.

We could also have a Menchov vs. Contador thread, or a Basso vs. Contador thread, all as irrelevant as this one.

 

[airstream]

The problem was that Alberto didn't want to ride in the back of the peloton

Hehe, believe if Bruyneel and Armstrong had wanted Contador not to win the Tour too much, he wouldn't have taken it. It could have been very ugly and grotesque surely, but after 2007 it wouldn't have surprised too many people. Yes, atmosphere inside of the team was not for him, but nothing more. In terms of a road work, he had an absolute support.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Have to agree with Airstream here. Noone can say that AC had less help in the 09 tour than for example giro 08

I wonder what your definition of "help" is.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Hehe, believe if Bruyneel and Armstrong had wanted Contador not to win the Tour too much, he wouldn't have taken it. Yes, atmosphere inside of the team was not for him, but nothing more. In terms of a road work, he had an absolute support.

Of course. Do you really believe that JB and LA tried to sabotage Alberto but at the same time they did support him. Come on you can't be that stupid. They did everything they could but it wasn't enough.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I wonder what your definition of "help" is.

to have some team mates with him up the mountain all the way until he desides to attack

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Alberto is the best climber, best stage racer
Cav is the best sprinter
Best tter, Tony? Cance? Wiggo?
Boonen or Cance as the best cobbled classics rider, Phil for the hilly classics and Jrod for the uphill sprint

Pretty much agreed there.

One of those is "the best". Who? I guess it's a matter of opinion, not fact

I don't think you can have one best rider (At least not in this period of cycling). How can you compare the best of on discipline with another? Most people weight GTs above everything else because you generally need to have multiple strings to your bow. A fair enough argument but, and lets face it, very much skewed to those who can climb, hence one of my previous posts.

Sure you can say most complete but that is something difference IMO (You may argue it is just semantics).

Anyway, I digress...

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I mean: what's the relevance? Fading star who at the twilight of his career had his dream result vs. best GT rider in the world at the apex of his career. It's a bit random. They're different types of rider, both of them happen to be good at GTs but Contador is clearly a cut above everyone else. Evans is also a reasonable one day racer but not to the extent that it lifts him above Contador... IMHO.

Fair enough.

We could also have a Menchov vs. Contador thread, or a Basso vs. Contador thread, all as irrelevant as this one.

Let be honest. Most threads at the moment are just filling in the gap until racing starts up again.

 

[LaFlorecita]

to have some team mates with him up the mountain all the way until he desides to attack

But did they help him? No, they were helping Lance. Sure it also helped Alberto but he had to do a lot of things on his own or with Paulinho.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

But did they help him? No, they were helping Lance. Sure it also helped Alberto but he had to do a lot of things on his own or with Paulinho.

yup, exactly

 

[LaFlorecita]

yup, exactly

This year's Vuelta was a good example of Alberto's team helping him. Letting someone ride in your train while at the same time trying everything possible to make him lose IS NOT what helping is all about

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

This year's Vuelta was a good example of Alberto's team helping him. Letting someone ride in your train while at the same time trying everything possible to make him lose IS NOT what helping is all about

Did he have to pull on the flats into the mountains? no
Did he have to pull in the mountains? no (excpet when he attacked ofc )

Did the team keep the pace up the mountians for him personally? probably not
Did it HELP him that they did all this? yes

 

[LaFlorecita]

Did he have to pull on the flats into the mountains? no
Did he have to pull in the mountains? no (excpet when he attacked ofc )

Did the team keep the pace up the mountians for him personally? probably not
Did it HELP him that they did all this? yes

Just because he didn't help the team doesn't mean the team helped him

 

[LaFlorecita]

I'm sorry. There is no way in hell I can see Astana 2009 as a team that supported Alberto. Not with Lance and Hog.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Just because he didn't help the team doesn't mean the team helped him

?
The team did exactly what it would should do. for Lance or ALberto does not matter, the effect of their actions was just as positive for AC as for Lance.
Sure it was probably harder mentally for AC than it should have been, but the physical benefit was there all the way

 

[LaFlorecita]

?
The team did exactly what it would should do. for Lance or ALberto does not matter, the effect of their actions was just as positive for AC as for Lance.
Sure it was probably harder mentally for AC than it should have been, but the physical benefit was there all the way

Yea it must've been great for him to ride all alone being beaten up by the wind

 

[LaFlorecita]

?

You ask yourself if he had to pull. Of course not, there was a whole team who could do that for Lance. Just because Alberto didn't have to do that doesn't mean he wasn't treated as an outcast that should be stopped in whatever way possible

 

[theyoungest]

You ask yourself if he had to pull. Of course not, there was a whole team who could do that for Lance. Just because Alberto didn't have to do that doesn't mean he wasn't treated as an outcast that should be stopped in whatever way possible

I remember the team being somewhat split in two... the Spaniards for Alberto, the others for Lance. One thing you can say is that Alberto clearly could have taken more time on the competition if the Hog didn't stop him from attacking a couple of times. And that it's probably hard to try and win the Tour in such an environment, where the manager wants someone else to win.

 

[The Hitch]

Clearly Evans as he never has lost any wins "off the road". AC cannot make up this deficit. Plus, Evans has shown some great results in one-day-races (World Champion) and classic-like stages (as in this strade bianche Giro stage some years ago) which is something AC is just not capable of. BTW, Evans is (or was) able to perform on a very high level without any team support. I am not sure about this point, but I guess that's not AC's strong suit, too.

What contador did on 2 hills a descent and lots of.open road.flat into fuente de absolutely kills what Evans did.in moltacino.

Absolutely kills it.

 

[airstream]

I'm sorry. There is no way in hell I can see Astana 2009 as a team that supported Alberto. Not with Lance and Hog.

Sensitive part prevails over logical one.

 

[airstream]

What contador did on 2 hills a descent and lots of.open road.flat into fuente de absolutely kills what Evans did.in moltacino.

Absolutely kills it.

By the result or by strength? in terms of the result, yes. By in terms of strength I don't think so. That was Purito's fail mostly. Contador rode by himself 15-20k alone and during all of them was losing to disorganized pursuit out of Valverde and Quintana.

 

[The Hitch]

Hehe, believe if Bruyneel and Armstrong had wanted Contador not to win the Tour too much, he wouldn't have taken it. It could have been very ugly and grotesque.

What would they do? He won the thing by 6 minutes and was always in control.

You are talking about some act of.violence that would have rendered him.incapable of completing the race?

So what have we learned? If brunyeel and Armstrong decided.to kill contador he probably wouldn't have won the tour that year.

Well done. Your contributions.continue to inspire