The dope testing system: who's fooling who?

[MarkvW]

Every now and then . . .

Give it time...While other major professional organizations are more corrupt, it is because there is an order of magnitude greater amount of money there. There just isnt the events and cash flow involved in cycling for us to see the bs created in FIFA, North American, and other pro sports. We love the spectacle that cycling is, but while the roads are lined with spectators, they are not with money. When you view any other sporting event you can picture dollar signs above each head in the stadium. They spend money on tickets, merchandise, food, parking etc. From prior research, 6 day racing was very corrupt, because you created the same situation with a dollar sign above everyones head, and people looking to remove as many of those dollars in any way possible.

You nearly need to think of Pro sports as a circus. We sure have the clowns, the performers, and a variety of weird people. But there is a seedy underworld of criminals, grifters, con men and others that want to bring the show to you, and take all your money in the process. If you have a better circus, you draw more bucks, so bring on the bearded lady, the elephant man, the cancer survivor or the little guy struggling to be one of the great ones, and they all get exploited in the same way.

Great post! Thanks for the perspective.

 

[rhubroma]

There is a horrible dichotomy happening here. They are not only the police, but they are the drug lord as well. They are the enablers and the promoters of the drug problem. They know that doping has created champions who raise the profile of the sport, so they enable it. Meanwhile, to keep up appearances, they also "fight" it. So it becomes a sport of cronyism and politics.

The UCI does not stick it's head in the sand. They are charlatans.

In other words, its all about $.

Probably going back to the age of charioteers and gladiators, some form of rudimentary doping has always existed.

Now, however, with science and the cultish phenomenon pro sport has become worldwide, as well as the gargantuan finances put into it: how could things have turned out any differently?

Then there is also the propagandistic value sport has, not only for the sponsors, but entire nations themselves. Athletic gesture and sport victories have been, and continue to be, state propaganda. For example at the olympics during the Cold War between the US and the former Soviet Union. And why do you think China had been so eager and was so satified to hold the Olympic Games on home turf recently? To demonstrate to the world that it has arrived on the international scene as a real economic and cultural protagonist. No more was this evident than before the eyes of America and the West.

Given the ideological force sport has to the state, it is not at all surprising that there are those with a vested interest in keeping athletes doped while claiming purity before the largely ignorant public. And they even go around shamelessly claiming that there are ethical "values" to sport, which thus makes it a public example of virtue!

 

[Señor_Contador]

But the question is, why is the UCI doing such a bad job in covering up doping practices?
Other sports agencies may stink several times harder than the UCI, but they don't smell as bad...
Although, admittedly, the FIFA and UEFA smell bad, but more in terms of financial corruption.
and as I said earlier, doping in soccer is probably as heavy as in cycling, if not heavier, but at least the corresponding authorities manage to keep up appearances and to keep the crowd ignorant and the media at distance (regarding dope that is). Why is the UCI failing so conspicuously in that respect? Or is that a good sign?

The # 1 problem as it applies to doping and cycling is that the cycling world lacks a governing body that deals with doping internally. And the reason is that the powers-that-be made it very clear in 1997 that cycling was going to become the doormat of all things doping. Once that happened it was game over.

The UCI are only acting as a group of privileged individuals precisely because they've turned their whole mission statement into some sort of "look we just sanction the damn sport, we don't run the testing" excuse. And WADA... well, the way many WADA people look at cycling, and cyclists in general... let's just say it's reminiscent of the way a pimp looks at one of his hoes. To WADA a cyclist is a potential doper. And their business is catching dopers, so they're going to try their very best to make it seem they're needed.

Does it matter that a rather alarming percentage of positive results turn out to be false? Nope. Does it matter that other sports have an obviously worst doping problem? Nope. What matters is that the UCI have extricated themselves from any fault. They've outsourced their liability. So their whole game is to point the finger and repeat slogans. "Dr. Fuentes" and "doping in Spain" usually do thle trick. Whether countries or doctors other than Spain and Dr. Fuentes have worst doping records is irrelevant.

I'd like to hear Paddie McQuaid say "the USA has a doping problem" (which is also true)... and just watch his head roll...

All in all, doping or not, cycling is STILL one of the healthiest sports known to mankind.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The # 1 problem as it applies to doping and cycling is that the cycling world lacks a governing body that deals with doping internally. And the reason is that the powers-that-be made it very clear in 1997 that cycling was going to become the doormat of all things doping. Once that happened it was game over.

The UCI are only acting as a group of privileged individuals precisely because they've turned their whole mission statement into some sort of "look we just sanction the damn sport, we don't run the testing" excuse. And WADA... well, the way many WADA people look at cycling, and cyclists in general... let's just say it's reminiscent of the way a pimp looks at one of his hoes. To WADA a cyclist is a potential doper. And their business is catching dopers, so they're going to try their very best to make it seem they're needed.

Does it matter that a rather alarming percentage of positive results turn out to be false? Nope. Does it matter that other sports have an obviously worst doping problem? Nope. What matters is that the UCI have extricated themselves from any fault. They've outsourced their liability. So their whole game is to point the finger and repeat slogans. "Dr. Fuentes" and "doping in Spain" usually do thle trick. Whether countries or doctors other than Spain and Dr. Fuentes have worst doping records is irrelevant.

I'd like to hear Paddie McQuaid say "the USA has a doping problem" (which is also true)... and just watch his head roll...

All in all, doping or not, cycling is STILL one of the healthiest sports known to mankind.

The reason why cycling has such a poor reputation (& the UCI cannot handle it internally) is because it keeps getting snared in Police or State doping investigations.

Yet again, WADA do not test or sanction athletes.

 

[D-Queued]

The reason why cycling has such a poor reputation (& the UCI cannot handle it internally) is because it keeps getting snared in Police or State doping investigations.

Yet again, WADA do not test or sanction athletes.

Maybe we can have a rider's strike against the police and these state doping investigations.

They aren't following their own rules. What's fair is clear. Respect basic rights. We want our dollars to support fairness.

Whatever happened to "the basic principles of a democratic legal system"?

I mean, don't we get to vote for the outcome we want or anything?

Dave.

 

[Barrus]

Maybe we can have a rider's strike against the police and these state doping investigations.

They aren't following their own rules. What's fair is clear. Respect basic rights. We want our dollars to support fairness.

Whatever happened to "the basic principles of a democratic legal system"?

I mean, don't we get to vote for the outcome we want or anything?

Dave.

What, you mean like in the tour of 1998?

But you do realize that these state doping investigation are completely in line with basic rights, seeing as they need to conform to, in most cases, the European Convention on Human Rights and the jurisprudence of the European Court of Human Rights, which is quite frankly one of the most complete and most in depth human rights charters around and one of the best protections of human rights in the world, especially when looking at interstate charters

And no, you don't get to vote on basic human rights, and their interpretation, that would completely defeat the purpose of these rights

 

[D-Queued]

What, you mean like in the tour of 1998?

But you do realize that these state doping investigation are completely in line with basic rights, seeing as they need to conform to, in most cases, the European Convention on Human Rights and the jurisprudence of the European Court of Human Rights, which is quite frankly one of the most complete and most in depth human rights charters around and one of the best protections of human rights in the world, especially when looking at interstate charters

And no, you don't get to vote on basic human rights, and their interpretation, that would completely defeat the purpose of these rights

Sorry, Barrus, all of that was quoted from Floydfairness...

I particularly liked the notion of the democratic legal system.

Dave.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Sorry, Barrus, all of that was quoted from Floydfairness...

I particularly liked the notion of the democratic legal system.

Dave.

I just assumed you were being sarcastic.

 

[D-Queued]

I just assumed you were being sarcastic.

What!? Can we have a vote on that?



Dave.

 

[Barrus]

Sorry, Barrus, all of that was quoted from Floydfairness...

I particularly liked the notion of the democratic legal system.

Dave.

Sorry Dave, it was late and I didn't see it was you who posted that
I just saw that post and was truly amazed anyone could have that point of view here If I had seen it was you, I would've realized you were not serious

 

[Señor_Contador]

The reason why cycling has such a poor reputation (& the UCI cannot handle it internally) is because it keeps getting snared in Police or State doping investigations.

Yet again, WADA do not test or sanction athletes.

I didn't say that. YOU interpreted it that way.

That's the only difference.

 

[Dallas_]

The # 1 problem as it applies to doping and cycling is that the cycling world lacks a governing body that deals with doping internally. And the reason is that the powers-that-be made it very clear in 1997 that cycling was going to become the doormat of all things doping. Once that happened it was game over.

The UCI are only acting as a group of privileged individuals precisely because they've turned their whole mission statement into some sort of "look we just sanction the damn sport, we don't run the testing" excuse. And WADA... well, the way many WADA people look at cycling, and cyclists in general... let's just say it's reminiscent of the way a pimp looks at one of his hoes. To WADA a cyclist is a potential doper. And their business is catching dopers, so they're going to try their very best to make it seem they're needed.

Does it matter that a rather alarming percentage of positive results turn out to be false? Nope. Does it matter that other sports have an obviously worst doping problem? Nope. What matters is that the UCI have extricated themselves from any fault. They've outsourced their liability. So their whole game is to point the finger and repeat slogans. "Dr. Fuentes" and "doping in Spain" usually do thle trick. Whether countries or doctors other than Spain and Dr. Fuentes have worst doping records is irrelevant.

I'd like to hear Paddie McQuaid say "the USA has a doping problem" (which is also true)... and just watch his head roll...

All in all, doping or not, cycling is STILL one of the healthiest sports known to mankind.

Senor_Contador, agree with other sports having a bigger problem. Did you read Andynonomous post. Tennis players have one unnanounced, out of competition test per year and if I read correctly that's it. Can you imagine how many tennis players could possibly be juiced with a system as such?

Ashendon's opinion on how to improve the cycling system would be interesting.

You say a rather alarming percentage of positive results turn out to be false. False according to who? I cannot see them. Maybe their lawyers bend the truth! Do you have any statistics to prove that? If you have them, would be interesting.

By internalising, do you mean all information on a case is kept under wraps until the final verdict? If so, that scenario creates other problems.

My vote is: remove dope testing control from the UCI and hand over full control to the AFLD. Then watch progress ....just me saying

cheers

 

[PotentialPro]

In other words, its all about $.

Probably going back to the age of charioteers and gladiators, some form of rudimentary doping has always existed.

Now, however, with science and the cultish phenomenon pro sport has become worldwide, as well as the gargantuan finances put into it: how could things have turned out any differently?

Then there is also the propagandistic value sport has, not only for the sponsors, but entire nations themselves. Athletic gesture and sport victories have been, and continue to be, state propaganda. For example at the olympics during the Cold War between the US and the former Soviet Union. And why do you think China had been so eager and was so satified to hold the Olympic Games on home turf recently? To demonstrate to the world that it has arrived on the international scene as a real economic and cultural protagonist. No more was this evident than before the eyes of America and the West.

Given the ideological force sport has to the state, it is not at all surprising that there are those with a vested interest in keeping athletes doped while claiming purity before the largely ignorant public. And they even go around shamelessly claiming that there are ethical "values" to sport, which thus makes it a public example of virtue!

I think the term ethics probably needs to be looked at in a much deeper level. Its obvious what someone finds ethical, others find either doesnt go far enough, or goes to far. In the Federal Courts within the US, you nearly want to try to pick which district you try a specific case in. Much like the cases against Larry Flynt back in the 70's and 80's they tried to put the trial in front of a court with different ethics than say one in San Francisco, or New York knowing certain values were at hand. There is no mesh of ethics within cycling. What is acceptable to riders, is not necessarily fair, nor is it the same expectations that the UCI, WADA or any other organization holds.

We have seen where UCI has seen fit not to pass information like in the Contador case, and others they feel do not meet muster. How ethically does UCI get to decide what is right and not right to try? There is little case law that provides basis for either side in a case to predetermine an outcome and parameters as it seems like it slides all over the scale in every case. Take Fuyu or other clen cases now. They were adjudicated in what seemed like minutes.

When doping, and false positives are taken in the same light, and the extreme cost of monitoring any kind of food, supplement or item ingested is cost prohibitive, what does that turn the ethical nature of the system into? How does a 12k dreamer protect themselves? It seems there are many rule books at hand, some in print that are not followed properly, some unprinted that are beyond arbitrary. And lets face it, the science is not exact behind the testing. How exactly do we know these labs really have their equipment setup properly? This ethical debate is not exactly a can of worms but maybe a 55gal drum.