The fun begins - SCA now asking for money back...

[Merckx index]

Another one of hoggie's predictions bites the dust. No settlement for the full twelve million by the middle of January.

What Mark said. And this seems to fit BroDeal's original scenario, except that Oprah takes the place of the federal case. By admitting to doping, LA no longer has to worry about being deposed. Ergo, willing to take the risk that he would lose the suit by SCA.

SCA now has to ask themselves whether they really want to spend more money on a case they might lose. I find it interesting that it was reported a full month ago that SCA was "about" to file a lawsuit. Possible they're having second thoughts? I wonder if they regret not taking the one million LA initially offered them.

 

[reginagold]

I think Lance's gamble will pay off in the end; raking in as much dough as possible during the Yellow Years, writing books, doing documentaries, getting all the sponsorships, foundation money etc. Surely enough cash stowed away to pay off all the collectors.

Do you really think he's done all this without tripping massively over the criminal prohibitions against money laundering? Rhetorical question: Why have continue to have a well known money laundering defense lawyer on the payroll?

 

[Clausfarre]

"I'll spend the rest of my life saying I'm sorry"

But to hear it you will have to fight through his Wall of Lawyers. Lance knows how to take care of Lance so no doubt there is a strategy to minimize losses and negotiate lawsuits. I'm not confident we will ever get to hear all the filth and juicy stories that are surely there. Just settlements and omerta behaviour.

 

[Oldman]

Do you really think he's done all this without tripping massively over the criminal prohibitions against money laundering? Rhetorical question: Why have continue to have a well known money laundering defense lawyer on the payroll?

His legal staff is paid to stall and obscure the facts as much as possible. The "victimization" angle in that USA Today article smells like a planted pr piece more than an actual declaration of his legal stance.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

His legal staff is paid to stall and obscure the facts as much as possible. The "victimization" angle in that USA Today article smells like a planted pr piece more than an actual declaration of his legal stance.

The key thing is trying to establish Armstrong as a victim - ie he turned up in Europe at 19 and the Europeans made him dope. He was just a victim, not the enforcer of omerta.

It's more of a plea I think to the wristband wearers. I'm sure we'll be seeing more of the 'victim' narrative coming out in the media and on the message boards over the next few weeks.

They do seem to have abandoned 'level playing field' for the time being.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Seems to me that Lance was using the Oprah appearance as a tool to eliminate or minimize the extortion value of SCA's lawsuit. In effect, he's telling them: "Fine. Go ahead and depose me. I'll admit to all my doping that's relevant to you (which doesn't include the comeback).

This is now boiling down to the settlement agreement--a document none of us have seen--and the circumstances surrounding its execution--which are unknown to us.

I wouldn't bet against Armstrong on this one.

I don't know that betting against SCA is the right move either.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Do you really think he's done all this without tripping massively over the criminal prohibitions against money laundering? Rhetorical question: Why have continue to have a well known money laundering defense lawyer on the payroll?

Money laundering...? Please share or direct me to links.

 

[H2OUUP2]

His legal staff is paid to stall and obscure the facts as much as possible. The "victimization" angle in that USA Today article smells like a planted pr piece more than an actual declaration of his legal stance.

^^^ This!! He(his people) will continue to fight with PR stunts like this. Oprah interview backfired a bit. Probably because he was doing the interview. Now he will get his "people" on the case that did such a good job at it before.

Hopefully the sheep have heard enough to understand half, if not all of it are lies, and excuses.

The interesting thing is though, is that he is still trying to win people back, which makes me think he still thinks he can. Their starting new rhetoric now. Soon we will be hearing this same rhetoric from his fanboys like we did with the "500 drug tests" , "never tested positive", "witch hunt", blah blah blah....

 

[Bosco10]

^^^ This!! He(his people) will continue to fight with PR stunts like this. Oprah interview backfired a bit. Probably because he was doing the interview. Now he will get his "people" on the case that did such a good job at it before.

Hopefully the sheep have heard enough to understand half, if not all of it are lies, and excuses.

Believe it or not, there are still die-hards yelling, "but..but..but.. he passed 500 tests!"

 

[MarkvW]

I don't know that betting against SCA is the right move either.

Fair enough. We just don't know enough.

 

[H2OUUP2]

Believe it or not, there are still die-hards yelling, "but..but..but.. he passed 500 tests!"

Oh, I believe it. I'm living it. Went over to my Aunts for dinner on Sunday and listened to my uncles wife tell me the exact same thing as well as all the other rhetoric. She also added a couple of doozies! She Said he was being forced to confess by cycling and the media. She then went on to tell me that if he did dope, cycling made him do it for ratings and it's not his fault.

THAT is how good his PR staff is.

 

[BroDeal]

After the Oprah confession, the SCA's leverage on Armstrong dropped considerably. It could have happened with the qui tam case but Oprah produced the same result. The amount it can expect to get in a settlement is now much lower.

SCA needs to go beyond contract disputes to a broader allegation of being a victim of an insurance fraud scheme. It should have done this years ago, though.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Fair enough. We just don't know enough.

No. We do however know that overturning settlement agreements is generally on contract defenses, and not content as most all settlement agreements have clauses that try to foreclose future re-litigation. However, there could be a part of the settlement agreement that makes clear that any future revelations of doping will not be grounds to re-visit. That, or Armstrong's attorneys are betting SCA doesn't want to spend a few million to get back 12. We'll see I guess. I am a bit concerned that SCA didn't follow through with their threat to file two weeks ago. I am sure there were settlement talks, but not following through with such a public threat could be a bad sign.

 

[Carols]

Believe it or not, there are still die-hards yelling, "but..but..but.. he passed 500 tests!"

No it's worse than that. The 'he really didn't dope, but admitted to it just to get Tygart off his back' is surfacing. Talk about delusional!!!!

 

[Carols]

Oh, I believe it. I'm living it. Went over to my Aunts for dinner on Sunday and listened to my uncles wife tell me the exact same thing as well as all the other rhetoric. She also added a couple of doozies! She Said he was being forced to confess by cycling and the media. She then went on to tell me that if he did dope, cycling made him do it for ratings and it's not his fault.

THAT is how good his PR staff is.

Didn't see this one when I posted....yep it is happening!!! That and 'it's not cheating if it's your own blood'!!!

 

[Steel4Ever]

Just goes to show that all Liestrong truly cares about is preserving his lifestyle.

"I cheated and lied and ruined people's lives...but the money is all mine!"

Just as d0uchey as his scummy lawyers -- "The other cheaters didn't have to give back their dirty money..."

Hey Liestrong, just because there is precedence it doesn't mean you have to follow it.
You have every freedom in the world to return all your ill-gotten riches. But you won't.

What's the old adage? Actions speak louder than words...

Too bad the justice system has been usurped by the legal system.

 

[jackwolf]

Oh, I believe it. I'm living it. Went over to my Aunts for dinner on Sunday and listened to my uncles wife tell me the exact same thing as well as all the other rhetoric. She also added a couple of doozies! She Said he was being forced to confess by cycling and the media. She then went on to tell me that if he did dope, cycling made him do it for ratings and it's not his fault.

THAT is how good his PR staff is.

Nothing to do with his PR staff; some people just want to believe. Remember the Meaning of Life scene in which the main character starts a religion without even trying?

 

[D-Queued]

Oh, I believe it. I'm living it. Went over to my Aunts for dinner on Sunday and listened to my uncles wife tell me the exact same thing as well as all the other rhetoric. She also added a couple of doozies! She Said he was being forced to confess by cycling and the media. She then went on to tell me that if he did dope, cycling made him do it for ratings and it's not his fault.

THAT is how good his PR staff is.

As they say, you can pick your friends but not your family. Good luck with it!

Cognitive dissonance is more likely the culprit than any PR staff, since at the end of the day we all believe what we want.

Dave.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

"My understanding is no athlete ever in history has had to pay back their compensation". - Tim Herman

It's like somebody forgot to tell Herman that he's dealing with the biggest fraud in the history of sport.


http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8916679

 

[D-Queued]

"My understanding is no athlete ever in history has had to pay back their compensation". - Tim Herman

It's like somebody forgot to tell Herman that he's dealing with the biggest fraud in the history of sport.


http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8916679

That is such a BS statement.

Legal precedent is not so narrowly defined, and the rules are clear. The concept of ill gotten gains is not novel.

Winnings obtained fraudulently are, um, fraudulent.

Gambling (= gaming) proceeds have been forfeited when the rules were broken; Lottery proceeds have been forfeited... Athletic scholarships have been forfeited...

Recognizing that Lance at the end of the day is merely a bad triathlete, perhaps the following news item from one month ago can refresh Hermann's memory:


WTC Announces Anti-Doping Rule Violation
http://ironmanpromembership.com/2012/12/wtc-announces-anti-doping-rule-violation-3/

"...Albano has also been disqualified from all competitive results achieved subsequent to May 26, 2012, including forfeiture of any medals, points and prizes..."

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

The key thing is trying to establish Armstrong as a victim - ie he turned up in Europe at 19 and the Europeans made him dope. He was just a victim, not the enforcer of omerta.

It's more of a plea I think to the wristband wearers. I'm sure we'll be seeing more of the 'victim' narrative coming out in the media and on the message boards over the next few weeks.

They do seem to have abandoned 'level playing field' for the time being.

When Armstrong entered the pro peloton, it was a doped up circus where the relevant antidoping rules were largely unenforced and the UCI liked it that way. The UCI is still that way. The entire UPS conspiracy (yes, even poor teary-eyed David Zabriskie) ruthlessly exploited the corrupt environment and dominated like nobody else had ever dominated before. They were the best at cheating in a game where every real contender was cheating.

Armstrong has never made the pitch that he was a victim because the "Europeans made him dope." His pitch is (1) that everybody else was doping, and (2) he had to dope if he wanted to win. He made this argument to his confidantes well before he said it to Oprah. The first part of the pitch is close to the truth because all the contenders were doping. The second part is undisputable because Lance needed to dope to win.

Armstrong is saying he's the victim only because he's being singled out from all the other dopers by the American antidoping agency. That claim is obviously false because (a) Armstrong accepted his sanction without appeal; and (b) because there was no honest way USADA could walk away from Floyd once he started talking. This victim argument is really untenable and I don't think it will be successful for Lance.

Lastly, there is no way I see Lance playing the victim role. He's spent a lifetime trying to shore up his self-esteem by creating a "winner" persona. He's not going to radically reshift and call himself a poor loser victim. Anyway, the brand of a victim doesn't have much marketing power in America.

I can't see any public role for Lance once his lawsuits are over.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Didn't see this one when I posted....yep it is happening!!! That and 'it's not cheating if it's your own blood'!!!

IMHO, this is a minority of people that as others have stated just want to believe.

I've had a number of conversations with people that know me as "really, really into cycling" and they've been great. I ask about their opinions before I say anything.

-Wonderboy is not credible and frightening.
-They don't know anything about the UCI and don't care, but intuitively grasp how the federation is a player in the fraud and not credible.
-They are open to the message that IOC anti-doping is an IQ test.

6+ months ago, there was no way to have that conversation.

The story and the broad implications are spreading. Many indifferent people in my little world inside the U.S. get the big picture.

 

[Carols]

IMHO, this is a minority of people that as others have stated just want to believe.

Yes their numbers are getting smaller day by day I was just listing the curren Believers excuses.

1-They all doped, he was still the best
2-He never failed a test; it's all hearsay (yep still around)
3-It's not cheating if it's your own blood
4-He didn't dope only admitted to it because of pressure
5-All his teammates are the liars
6-LiveStrong does so much good it doesn't matter


Delusional people exist and they breed

 

[D-Queued]

Yes their numbers are getting smaller day by day I was just listing the curren Believers excuses.

1-They all doped, he was still the best
2-He never failed a test; it's all hearsay (yep still around)
3-It's not cheating if it's your own blood
4-He didn't dope only admitted to it because of pressure
5-All his teammates are the liars
6-LiveStrong does so much good it doesn't matter


Delusional people exist and they breed

See the Slowtwitch thread:

7. The other dopers haven't apologized to Betsy



To which should be added:

8. Nobody else has gone on Oprah and (lied while they pretended to have) confessed

Dave.

 

[veganrob]

SCA to sue Thursday

http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...r-bonuses-paid-for-tour-de-france-wins-020613

Apparently SCA wants their money back.