The Good that Lance has done.

Jan 20, 2011
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- Promoted cycling outside Europe
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)

Was it worth it?
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling outside Europe
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)

Was it worth it?
Absolutely - I had never heard of cycling or cancer until whateverhisnameisagain came along.

Obviously he should be allowed to do what ever he wants,to who ever he wants, whenever he wants - this is only fair for promoting his ego, I mean cancer or cycling.
 
Jun 1, 2010
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Lance seems to have legitimized the sport for a lot of middle aged men outside of Europe (I'm speaking here about my opinion from east coast Australia). Lance's attitude, accessibility (speaking English) and celebrity, made cycling more macho.
We might have lagged a bit behind the trend here, but I see lots of guys in their 40s-50s out riding now, decked out in their MJ kit atop their $5k bikes. More cyclists on the road is a good thing.

As a doctor, I have seen Lance's influence on patients confronted with a cancer diagnosis. Lying in the anaesthetic bay scared about what's going to confront them on the other side of the operation. They'll have read a Lance quote or even a book, and they hope. No way I'm taking that from them.

Was it worth it? Certainly for Lance it's been worth it so far. But I don't think the end justifies the means.
 
May 26, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Absolutely - I had never heard of cycling or cancer until whateverhisnameisagain came along.

Obviously he should be allowed to do what ever he wants,to who ever he wants, whenever he wants - this is only fair for promoting his ego, I mean cancer or cycling.
But Doc he 'promoted' something so much more than before and only those chosen can see it, we have obviously not been lucky enough to see and maybe by donning the special golden circular band applied to the lower arm and only then shall we see the truth....
 
Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling outside Europe
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)
Was it worth it?
Lets........because it's a crock of sh**. Lance does not have the patent on cancer as PK said.
 
May 26, 2010
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onefastgear said:
Lance seems to have legitimized the sport for a lot of middle aged men outside of Europe (I'm speaking here about my opinion from east coast Australia). Lance's attitude, accessibility (speaking English) and celebrity, made cycling more macho.
We might have lagged a bit behind the trend here, but I see lots of guys in their 40s-50s out riding now, decked out in their MJ kit atop their $5k bikes. More cyclists on the road is a good thing.

As a doctor, I have seen Lance's influence on patients confronted with a cancer diagnosis. Lying in the anaesthetic bay scared about what's going to confront them on the other side of the operation. They'll have read a Lance quote or even a book, and they hope. No way I'm taking that from them.

Was it worth it? Certainly for Lance it's been worth it so far. But I don't think the end justifies the means.
but if they are a banker you must take it away it is your moral duty to society;)
 
May 26, 2010
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how soon before the uniballer has a deal with some hotel (or brothel) chain that instead of a bible in every hotel room it has a copy of his bile:rolleyes:
 
Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling outside Europe
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)

Was it worth it?
For him - yes, so far.

For me as a fan - no, not at all, although I'm faced with the somewhat paradoxical notion that I probably wouldn't have been exposed to cycling if I hadn't been unemployed on my parents' couch in 2004 when the tour was on every morning, and that probably wouldn't have been televised in Canada if it wasn't for Armstrong's popularity. But oh well, doesn't mean I like or respect him.

And can I at least argue that 'increasing cancer awareness' might be totally unimportant? Raising money for types of cancer research that are effective is something that I can get behind, but generalities like 'raising money for cancer research' or 'increasing awareness' I am skeptical of. So I think it's a fair arguing point whether what Armstrong has done on that front is 'good' at all.
 
Dec 14, 2010
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skidmark said:
For him - yes, so far.

For me as a fan - no, not at all, although I'm faced with the somewhat paradoxical notion that I probably wouldn't have been exposed to cycling if I hadn't been unemployed on my parents' couch in 2004 when the tour was on every morning, and that probably wouldn't have been televised in Canada if it wasn't for Armstrong's popularity. But oh well, doesn't mean I like or respect him.

And can I at least argue that 'increasing cancer awareness' might be totally unimportant? Raising money for types of cancer research that are effective is something that I can get behind, but generalities like 'raising money for cancer research' or 'increasing awareness' I am skeptical of. So I think it's a fair arguing point whether what Armstrong has done on that front is 'good' at all.
+1 'raising awareness' is easy and unmeasurable. 'funding research' (especially effectively) is expensive, difficult and uncertain.
 
Jun 1, 2010
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I should clarify, from the 'awareness' perspective I don't think Lance has contributed anything over here (apart from that big yellow sign out the front of Flinders Med Centre - but that's another can of worms). I still don't know what Lance means by awareness - prevention?

The people that I see in hospital identify with the idea that surviving cancer is a 'fight' and Lance is 'cancer fighter' so they can be too. It's a way they have of regaining some element of control over something they have no control over.

Over here, the best celebrity-endorsed cancer-related foundation I can think of is the McGrath Foundation. They fund the employment of breast-cancer nurses for post-op care. A real and tangible result. (Now all I need to discover is that Glenn McGrath was doped to the eyeballs to win all those cricket matches...:rolleyes:)
 
Oct 25, 2010
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We had a similar cycling "boom" in 1984 with the combination of '84 Olympics, Greg Lemond, etc.

And that "boom" (unlike today's) actually brought juniors and women along with it.

"With Catholics like Lance, who needs Protestants?"
 
A

Anonymous

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Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling outside Europe
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)

Was it worth it?
So its your position that people were not aware of cancer prior to The Uniballer? Mmmmmkay...:rolleyes:
 
Oct 25, 2010
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I've decided to start a foundation proclaiming my love for cancer, and we'll be selling t-shirts.

 
Denied!

Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling outside Europe
Did the cycling industry grow during this mythical promotion? No. Was Lance more well known? Sure. That didn't help the business.

Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
Again, please show me this in industry metrics. More bikes sold? No. More participants? Not due to this. I would argue improved road access/multi-use by cities/counties is by far the bigger contributor. Other than the usual roping a few new consumers only to have them feel tricked their USD $5000 plastic bike did not make them faster.

Sanitiser said:
- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)

Was it worth it?
And why not? I'd argue he used the sick and dying to promote 'liv3strong' branded anything.

No, it wasn't worth it.
 
A

Anonymous

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BotanyBay said:
I've decided to start a foundation proclaiming my love for cancer, and we'll be selling t-shirts.

Promoting cancer and 69ing, I would totally donate to that foundation!
 
Jun 19, 2009
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I'm addressing which of Polish's personalities now? At least he puts a little more lead in his line to get the bait into deeper waters...
 
Nov 9, 2010
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Sanitiser said:
- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)

Was it worth it?
2 from my family died from cancer before Lance the cancer killer made his first Tour victory.

Sure it was all worth it, thank you so much lance.

NOT!!
 
A

Anonymous

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Sanitiser said:
Promoted cycling outside Europe
When you say he has promoted cycling outside of europe do you mean?

a) he has promoted cycling in the United States of America
or
b) he has promoted cycling outside of europe.

Because if you do truly mean the latter I would love to see some examples. What has he done to promote cycling in for instance North Africa, how often has he ridden the Tour of Qatar, did he ride the Tour of Oman last year? How about Asia? Has Lance ridden the Japan Cup? The radioshack team are going to the Tour of Mumbia, but contrary to rumours, NO, lance is not going off to ride and promote cycling in India. Lance has increased the focus on cycling in America, yes, why, because it sells Mellow Johnny tshirts, it sells yellow wristbands. You could argue that he has raised cyclings profile in Australia but i would argue that his impact was fairly minor. The likes of Phil Anderson, Mcewan, Ogrady have done plenty to raise the profile of cycling in Australia.

So no. He has not raised the profile of cycling outside europe, merely raised the profile of the Tour De France in America.

Sanitiser said:
Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
See above. If he has promoted cycling to this key market, which frankly i feel is hogwash, maybe its because that market are the ones who can afford nice posh treks, and their MJ Tees.

Sanitiser said:
Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)
Well we can argue about it, because the statement whilst it may be slightly true is far from completely true. What awareness does he actually raise about cancer? The fact that cancer exists? What else? Erm, 28 million people died from it, or are suffering from it, or something - See, even I dont know what the 28 actually represents (i think maybe its sufferers). When people see a livestrong t-shirt, or a livestrong band what do they think? Do they think "ooh cancer exists and kills people" or do they think "lance armstrong".

He hasnt increased awareness of cancer (well arguably a bit but we all knew about cancer beforehand), all he has increased is awareness of LIVESTRONG.

If you are going to start a thread, at least put up an argument that doesnt fall apart with the slightest blow of wind.
 
Jan 20, 2011
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TeamSkyFans said:
When you say he has promoted cycling outside of europe do you mean?

a) he has promoted cycling in the United States of America
or
b) he has promoted cycling outside of europe.

Because if you do truly mean the latter I would love to see some examples. What has he done to promote cycling in for instance North Africa, how often has he ridden the Tour of Qatar, did he ride the Tour of Oman last year? How about Asia? Has Lance ridden the Japan Cup? The radioshack team are going to the Tour of Mumbia, but contrary to rumours, NO, lance is not going off to ride and promote cycling in India. Lance has increased the focus on cycling in America, yes, why, because it sells Mellow Johnny tshirts, it sells yellow wristbands. You could argue that he has raised cyclings profile in Australia but i would argue that his impact was fairly minor. The likes of Phil Anderson, Mcewan, Ogrady have done plenty to raise the profile of cycling in Australia.

So no. He has not raised the profile of cycling outside europe, merely raised the profile of the Tour De France in America.
Nope I'd argue Lance Armstrong has done more for raising cycling's profile in Australia than any Australian rider. I'd also argue that if you asked a person in Africa, Asia or South America you'd get the name Lance Armstrong 9 out of 10 times. Before that they'd be hard pressed to name any professional road cyclist.


TeamSkyFans said:
See above. If he has promoted cycling to this key market, which frankly i feel is hogwash, maybe its because that market are the ones who can afford nice posh treks, and their MJ Tees.
Yes and for anything to succeed it needs money.


TeamSkyFans said:
Well we can argue about it, because the statement whilst it may be slightly true is far from completely true. What awareness does he actually raise about cancer? The fact that cancer exists? What else? Erm, 28 million people died from it, or are suffering from it, or something - See, even I dont know what the 28 actually represents (i think maybe its sufferers). When people see a livestrong t-shirt, or a livestrong band what do they think? Do they think "ooh cancer exists and kills people" or do they think "lance armstrong".

He hasnt increased awareness of cancer (well arguably a bit but we all knew about cancer beforehand), all he has increased is awareness of LIVESTRONG.

If you are going to start a thread, at least put up an argument that doesnt fall apart with the slightest blow of wind.
I'm going to argue raise the profile for cancer because it did mainly showed through Lance a cancer survivor who not only survived but also prospered professionally and personally.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sanitiser said:
Nope I'd argue Lance Armstrong has done more for raising cycling's profile in Australia than any Australian rider. I'd also argue that if you asked a person in Africa, Asia or South America you'd get the name Lance Armstrong 9 out of 10 times. Before that they'd be hard pressed to name any professional road cyclist.



Yes and for anything to succeed it needs money.



I'm going to argue raise the profile for cancer because it did mainly showed through Lance a cancer survivor who not only survived but also prospered professionally and personally.
So has he promoted cycling, has he promoted (raised awareness) of cancer, or has he merely promoted himself.

i would very much say the latter, and hes got bloody rich from doing it.
 
Oct 1, 2010
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Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling outside Europe
In a limited way you are correct. He has promoted himself very well outside Europe - he is probably the most famous cyclist in the world. And thanks to winning the Tour de France seven times in a row, he has promoted the Tour de France outside Europe. It was already the most famous cycle race in the world but now more people know that Lance Armstrong is the best cyclist of all time because he won the Tour so many times. I don't think he has promoted cycling itself so much.

How is this Good?

Sanitiser said:
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men
The only future this group has is dependence on younger generations in their old age - are they really that important?

How is this Good?


Sanitiser said:
Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)
Yes, let's argue about it. Lance Armstrong has increased many people's awareness that he himself has had cancer. My own awareness of cancer happened when people close to me died from cancer.

Sanitiser said:
Was it worth it?
Certainly it was worth millions of dollars to Lance Armstrong and some of his closest associates.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Sanitiser said:
Nope I'd argue Lance Armstrong has done more for raising cycling's profile in Australia than any Australian rider. I'd also argue that if you asked a person in Africa, Asia or South America you'd get the name Lance Armstrong 9 out of 10 times. Before that they'd be hard pressed to name any professional road cyclist.



Yes and for anything to succeed it needs money.



I'm going to argue raise the profile for cancer because it did mainly showed through Lance a cancer survivor who not only survived but also prospered professionally and personally.
Of course everyone knows armstrong. It is because he won one of the hardest sporting events on the planet after coming back from cancer. That is why people know him.

He didn't raise awareness of cancer. He raised money but raising awareness would be alerting people to facts about cancer and what it does to people.

If a guy who podiumed at the tour de france twice and won the RR WC amongst all his other results hasn't rose the interest in the sport then I doubt any rider could from Australia.
 
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