Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia

[theyoungest]

Because Vinge just wanted to beat Roglic. Needed to assert dominance for leadership next year.

As did Roglic. There is really no difference between the two. And there's no point in this endless stream of Vingegaard haters trying to prove he's some kind of Judas. Yes, we know it by now, he's evil incarnate. Be prepared for a heavy dose of evil again next year.

 

[SHAD0W93]

And next you will say that Vinge dropped Roglic twice with ease, right?

I’ve never said a ride who is behind in GC and gets let go when they attack dropped the others. But if you want to go that way; Evenepoel dropped everyone with ease on stages 3, 14, and 18.

 

[SHAD0W93]

More than likely could have dropped him on Xorret de Cati, though.

And perhaps stages 18 and 20... we will never know. It's bizarre how many stages were basically uncontested.

Think he also could have have put a few seconds into him on Javalambre. Rog basically towed Vingo to the line once he got back on.

That’s the crappy thing, too many stages went uncontested while the two(three) were all on the same team. Would have been crazy if one was on Jumbo, Bahrain, and Bora/UAE.

 

[Boehmand]

But Roglic not all the time, he didn't went after Vingegaard every time, he shipped time both on Tourmalet and Bejes because he rode according to team tactics.
Vinge, on the other hand, went every time after Roglic.

Incredible that you are still in here crying about Vingegaard

 

[Blanco]

Incredible that you are still in here crying about Vingegaard

Still where?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Thats a story Roglic-fans love to tell: Roglic lost time on Tourmalet not due to legs, but only tactics. What absolute nonsensical garbage!

 

[proffate]

As did Roglic. There is really no difference between the two. And there's no point in this endless stream of Vingegaard haters trying to prove he's some kind of Judas. Yes, we know it by now, he's evil incarnate. Be prepared for a heavy dose of evil again next year.

The commenter I was responding to said it didn't make sense to follow Roglic if he wanted Sepp to win. I only pointed out that his riding makes sense if he wanted the final podium to look the way it did. He may have calculated that letting Sepp win would lock him in as a loyal servant for life.

I never made a value judgment regarding his tactics, but I'm sure he appreciates the simping. If anyone is evil it's the UCI for seemingly hating competition. This is the third unbeat[/r]able superteam in the last quarter century, so obviously they must like this state of affairs.

 

[GroupDK]

More than likely could have dropped him on Xorret de Cati, though.

And perhaps stages 18 and 20... we will never know. It's bizarre how many stages were basically uncontested.

Think he also could have have put a few seconds into him on Javalambre. Rog basically towed Vingo to the line once he got back on.

Roglic can't drop Vingegaard.. It's usually the other way around.
Roglic has to be grateful when Vingegaard is cruising.
Same in Dauphine 2022 where they drove together hand in hand and that "race" as a whole... Roglic was one grateful fish that Vingegaard was loyal and let him take the win, as Vingegaard seemed stronger but still loyal to his teammate, even though he did seem to have the edge, but you need other people to challenge, as dropping your captain would likely trigger some.

Roglic also knows that he ain't gonna win if Vingegaard is there, and why Roglic big goal Tour de France is not a priority..
tried in 2021 and 2022, and both times Vingegaard was stronger.
Roglic aint a challenger to Vingegaard on the main goal The Tour, only Pogacar.
Pogacar would also beat Roglic in my view.. these two are in a league of their own and here Vingegaard got the edge with 2 Tour de France wins, and could even have been 3, as he did seem stronger in the latter half 2021 Tour de France and also dropped Pogacar in the third week, but was almost 6 minutes down before the end-game, as Vingegaard did came into 2021 as a 100% helper for Roglic that couldn't keep it together. (dnf) - Vingegaard was not a GC contender in 2021 TdF, it was first as a backup plan when Roglic GC crumbled.. VIngegaard got the TdF spot as the very last in 2021 on Jumbo Visma and 100% helper..

That is the biggest letdown of Vuelta 2023.. the lack of full-blown clashing between Roglic & Vingegaard, and the fight I personally wanted to see, as here Jumbo was quite clear.. they would be allowed to fight it out .
I still wanna see Vingegaard being dropped in a Grand Tour and how he would handle it but the competitors need to do it in the first half, as in the latter half and mainly the third-week, he is superior in recovery.

 

[Netserk]

Incredible that you are still in here, buddy

 

[buddy buddy buddy]

so fast

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic can't drop Vingegaard..

I sincerely doubt that. I feel that both are capable of dropping another. On a good day. Now GT has a whole lot of days in it. So first thing to sort out is to actually be allowed to do that. Otherwise i agree it will be difficult.

 

[Blanco]

Thats a story Roglic-fans love to tell: Roglic lost time on Tourmalet not due to legs, but only tactics. What absolute nonsensical garbage!

Yeah, he tried and tried and desperately tried and just couldn't hold Vinge's wheel...

 

[Berniece]

I sincerely doubt that. I feel that both are capable of dropping another. On a good day. Now GT has a whole lot of days in it. So first thing to sort out is to actually be allowed to do that. Otherwise i agree it will be difficult.

Since you think both are able to drop each other, what is the differentiator then? Stage number in a GT? Type of climb they are currently climbing? Difficulty of the stage? Or something else?

 

[Netserk]

so fast

Just as I was going to reply to your post, I see that it was deleted. But once seen ...

 

[CyclistAbi]

Since you think both are able to drop each other, what is the differentiator then? Stage number in a GT? Type of climb they are currently climbing? Difficulty of the stage? Or something else?

On hardest climbs Rogla in my opinion has the edge. On others it can come to any number of things. Racing smart, daily form, team preparing the terrain for you ... And regardless of the outcome the very next day you get to do it all over again. As it's GT.

 

[kn0s]

On hardest climbs Rogla in my opinion has the edge. On others it can come to any number of things. Racing smart, daily form, team preparing the terrain for you ... And regardless of the outcome the very next day you get to do it all over again. As it's GT.

On the hardest climbs this Vuelta or in general? You write "has" that's why I ask.

If yes, I'm actually interested in your take. I like Roglic for his "cycling persona" he is an actual grown up, that I can relate to, compared to pogi an Jonas. Just my take.

But I don't have the greatest knowledge of his race history in stage races. I often skip some of it, as I'm not really a fan of the "bonus second sprint" kind of racing, be it from him or someone like Pogacar. I think it's only marginally more interesting, than a flat sprint stage, and I normally skip them.

On that account I most definitely have missed some of his great performances, as I haven't gone out of my way to check them out.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@kn0s

When Rogla is behind and needs to gains some time, then harder the climb, the better. In general. This season Angliru and Višarje (Monte Lusari) are some good examples. If climb is not hard enough then indeed stomp is the next best thing in Rogličes repertoire. Here he usually does expect team support. Whenever racing with Jonas, this is not a given any more. At Vuelta 23 not even Kuss supporting it.

 

[kn0s]

@kn0s

When Rogla is behind and needs to gains some time, then harder the climb, the better. In general. This season Angliru and Višarje (Monte Lusari) are some good examples. If climb is not hard enough then indeed stomp is the next best thing in Rogličes repertoire. Here he usually does expect team support. Whenever racing with Jonas, this is not a given any more. At Vuelta 23 not even Kuss supporting it.

If I remember correctly you think he should leave Jumbo, to maximize his chances at the tour?

But if he is as strong as you think, is this really necessary? The way I see it play out, if he can follow pogi and Jonas, it's actually just about favoring him.

Jonas will try to go long on the stages that favor him. Roglic can follow Pogi and benefit from his work. The medium stages Roglic does better than Jonas. Probably gaining more bonus seconds. If pogi goes they can both follow freely. The ITT will be very important. If there combined efforts crack pogi completely, then he just have to watch out the attack from Jonas doesn't get too out of control. This just isn't as bleak of a prospect in my mind. But he needs to be very, very strong or else he will just be a footnote like everyone else the last two years.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@kn0s

If Jonas goes then Rogla can't do that, chasing his own team member. And if other cyclists don't chase Jonas, then it's basically over. Especially on "mid" terrain. On top of that at least one team member, capable of doing that, isn't preparing the terrain for Rogla, to stomp. So although Roglič is in a very strong team, that in the end doesn't benefit him all that much.

 

[Netserk]

Sorry, @Samu Cuenca, but the new title sucks balls.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

@kn0s

If Jonas goes then Rogla can't do that, chasing his own team member. And if other cyclists don't chase Jonas, then it's basically over. Especially on "mid" terrain. On top of that at least one team member, capable of doing that, isn't preparing the terrain for Rogla, to stomp. So although Roglič is in a very strong team, that in the end doesn't benefit him all that much.

If both of them start the Tour, then they should be using Roglič as bait and have him attack first.

 

[kn0s]

@kn0s

If Jonas goes then Rogla can't do that, chasing his own team member. And if other cyclists don't chase Jonas, then it's basically over. Especially on "mid" terrain. On top of that at least one team member, capable of doing that, isn't preparing the terrain for Rogla, to stomp. So although Roglič is in a very strong team, that in the end doesn't benefit him all that much.

But pogi is not going to let him do anything if he can help it. Can't get a better domestique than that. The dynamic in the tour with pogi is just a whole other beast than this Vuelta.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If both of them start the Tour, then they should be using Roglič as the bait and have him attack first.

They could, but two things go against that. First one is it doesn't suit Rogla style all that much and the second is Jonas actually wants to attack early in the climb.

So such tactics would go against both expectations. And then again do they really need bait? Maybe Pogi should let Rogla go, as bait. Who knows. We'll see.

 

[Potomac]

The current thread title of simply "Jonas Vingegaard" has a lot of things going for it:

• Doesn't use "thread"
• Doesn't use "next" or "new"
• Doesn't mention another rider.

I see that some kind of reverse psychology should be employed.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But pogi is not going to let him do anything if he can help it. Can't get a better domestique than that. The dynamic in the tour with pogi is just a whole other beast than this Vuelta.

Well yes and no. That is if Jonas goes, that implies Pogi is already in trouble. Otherwise Pogi likely wouldn't let Jonas go.