Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

Simply factually incorrect. I assume to feed a wished-for narrative.

All accounts (from riders themselves) said that everyone came out absolutely flying. Connected to this, everyone was trying to win every race because they feared it might be their last and the season lost to COVID.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295059201476173824

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1295059201476173824


Couldn't find the Sormano speed quickly, but in 2018 they did the Sormano record, pulled turns with 4 riders and Pinot then was still faster than Birdsong up Civiglio.

Also note that generally Il Lombardia already isn't so known for having the whole peloton in top form.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Right. Also, 2020 Burgos level was indeed very good for Burgos... but probably not by 2021 Vuelta standards, going by the fastests ascents in that race.

It's not like it's a meaningful discussion right now anyway as there aren't nearly enough data points to guesstimate where his current climbing level is.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Right. Also, 2020 Burgos level was indeed very good for Burgos... but probably not by 2021 Vuelta standards, going by the fastests ascents in that race.

It's not like it's a meaningful discussion right now anyway as there aren't nearly enough data points to guesstimate where his current climbing level is.

Burgos isn't a season goal for anyone. Vuelta is. However i believe due to the entire lockdown, races cancelled, opportunities cut, that every race after the break was raced harder. Picon Blanco in Burgos 2020 was climbed after a big echelon battle, where Evenepoel had to fight back from group 3 to group 1, while Sosa got blown out the back of group 1 and ended up in group 3. While Picon Blanco in the 2021 Vuelta was climbed with a headwind iirc. Comparing times makes little sense if you want to microanalyze results.

 

[Netserk]

Tour de l'Ain was also slow in 2020 (I'd guess it was the same for Route du Sud). We saw big watts on Poggio and Ventoux, but I don't recall super fast climbs before that.

And Evenepoel had tailwind on Pícon Blanco, yet still slower than the sleep ride of the Vuelta this year.

 

[Bonimenier]

Tour de l'Ain was also slow in 2020 (I'd guess it was the same for Route du Sud). We saw big watts on Poggio and Ventoux, but I don't recall super fast climbs before that.

And Evenepoel had tailwind on Pícon Blanco, yet still slower than the sleep ride of the Vuelta this year.

Weird definition of tailwind that is.

 

[Netserk]

Do you prefer "a wind direction on the climb that was a net benefit"?

I think vetooo has a pretty neutral take on the conditions. Twitter exchange from back then: "The wind - mainly tail - was strong on MTF. Have to take into account."

 

[Red Rick]

Do you prefer "a wind direction on the climb that was a net benefit"?

I think vetooo has a pretty neutral take on the conditions. Twitter exchange from back then: "The wind - mainly tail - was strong on MTF. Have to take into account."

There might be issues with extrapolating direction because Picon Blanco does change in direction a bit towards the end but at one point his unzipped jersey was starting to get liftoff due the tailwind. Honestly the only time I've ever seen that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There might be issues with extrapolating direction because Picon Blanco does change in direction a bit towards the end but at one point his unzipped jersey was starting to get liftoff due the tailwind. Honestly the only time I've ever seen that.

The moment you're referring to is in the final +/-1k of the climb. There was a tweet with an image, i think it was Soler or someone else from Movistar (edit: turns out it were Gazprom-Rusvelo guys), who got blown off his bike after the finish. Can't recall the exact situation. Nevertheless, there was a lot of wind, and there were echelons because of that wind before the climb, but somehow those don't seem to fit into the narrative.

EDIT: the video in an article on cyclingweekly. They however speak of a headwind, which seems incorrect.

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View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CDR8kIKHFxH/

 

[Jungle Cycle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438934339803353091

View: https://twitter.com/JournalVelo/status/1438934339803353091

 

[Andre]

...40 seconds to Gana is a bit too much...must still improve

 

[Volderke]

...40 seconds to Gana is a bit too much...must still improve

It was pan-flat. I wonder how much of a difference remains with eg a rolling course or with 1 or 2 climbs (disclaimer: no technical downhill sections )

 

[Bolder]

...40 seconds to Gana is a bit too much...must still improve

Not sure if you are serious. But Ganna is a pure TT specialist who is also a track monster. Wout is a generational talent. I thought Remco was very good today, and as noted à few hills would have been in his favor.

 

[Eeslliw]

Not sure if you are serious. But Ganna is a pure TT specialist who is also a track monster. Wout is a generational talent. I thought Remco was very good today, and as noted à few hills would have been in his favor.

I am sorry, but it's just not enough for our Wunderkind. He should be the one smashing everyone, not some Italian guy who rather rides in small circles than on road.

But all will be good when he wins WC RR next Sunday, and outsprints Pogacar and Roglic in Il Lombardia.

 

[Red Rick]

I think a few hills would've made Van Aert the winner and Evenepoel would still be third. Or maybe Asgreen, 2s is a tiny difference you don't really wanna *** with that.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

The idea that long TTs suit him better than short-ish to medium length 20-25 km ones can be put to rest, IMO. It doesn't seem to matter one bit.

 

[Bonimenier]

The idea that long TTs suit him better than short-ish to medium length 20-25 km ones can be put to rest, IMO. It doesn't seem to matter one bit.

Doesn't it? Compared to most guys who were in Trento last week it clearly mattered a whole lot.

 

[Red Rick]

The idea that long TTs suit him better than short-ish to medium length 20-25 km ones can be put to rest, IMO. It doesn't seem to matter one bit.

I think it helps him in a way, but mostly against short ITT specialists.

 

[Oldermanish]

I am sorry, but it's just not enough for our Wunderkind. He should be the one smashing everyone, not some Italian guy who rather rides in small circles than on road.

But all will be good when he wins WC RR next Sunday, and outsprints Pogacar and Roglic in Il Lombardia.

Fans are putting way too much pressure on a recovering youngster. The RR could be a lottery like races before where alliances make the critical selections work.

 

[Oldermanish]

I think it helps him in a way, but mostly against short ITT specialists.

If you're going to win by the TT you will also falter by it. Make up your minds, guys.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think a few hills would've made Van Aert the winner and Evenepoel would still be third. Or maybe Asgreen, 2s is a tiny difference you don't really wanna *** with that.

Agreed. Ironically Belgians prepared the best TT for the main rival of their guys. WVA mentioned before the race that a more difficult TT would be better. On a more difficult course WVA would likely be the champion and Evenepoel would have been in contention for gold as well.

Besides, Remco says he's pushing his best values recently and he intentionally saved energy for the second part of the TT (as was seen from the splits). It seems that on this dead flat course with long straights it was impossible for him to beat wattage monsters.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Doesn't it? Compared to most guys who were in Trento last week it clearly mattered a whole lot.

Some did worse others did better. I don't think it matters. Only Van Aert was absent then and Asgreen almost finished in the same time this time.

Evenepoel had the advantage of no technical corners. Imagine if the Euro's didn't have those corners at the end.

 

[Red Rick]

Some did worse others did better. I don't think it matters. Only Van Aert was absent then and Asgreen almost finished in the same time this time.

Evenepoel had the advantage of no technical corners. Imagine if the Euro's didn't have those corners at the end.

Evenepoel isn't bad on technical corners on a TT bike.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Agreed. Ironically Belgians prepared the best TT for the main rival of their guys. WVA mentioned before the race that a more difficult TT would be better. On a more difficult course WVA would likely be the champion and Evenepoel would have been in contention for gold as well.

Besides, Remco says he's pushing his best values recently and he intentionally saved energy for the second part of the TT (as was seen from the splits). It seems that on this dead flat course with long straights it was impossible for him to beat wattage monsters.

Didn't Wout's coach once say that a flat TT is good for him because Pippo is pretty much the only one with an even bigger engine?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Didn't Wout's coach once say that a flat TT is good for him because Pippo is pretty much the only one with an even bigger engine?

He got what he wanted then

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Evenepoel isn't bad on technical corners on a TT bike.

Not bad per se, but he loses valuable seconds. (And I know Ganna is no Cancellara either)