The Scala naturae of the classics.

[El Pistolero]

I'm starting this topic to get other people's opinion about what they think is the Scala naturae of the classics/important one-day races. In other words, the Great Chain of Being. Which classic rules supreme? Which one is at the bottom?

The list:

The Monuments:

Milano- San Remo
De Ronde van Vlaanderen
Paris-Roubaix
Luik-Bastenaken-Luik
Giro di Lombardia

The other Classics:

Gent-Wevelgem
De Amstel Gold Race
La Flèche Wallone
Paris-Tours

Important One day races:

Olympic Road Race
World Championship on the Road

-----

My Scala Naturae:
1. Olympic Championship on the Road(depends on what profile the race is held though. Screw the 2012 Olympics).
2. World Championship on the Road(again, depends on what profile).
3.. Paris-Roubaix. L'enfer du Nord. La Reine!
4. Liège-Bastogne-Liège. La Doyenne!
5. De Ronde van Vlaanderen. Vlaanderens Mooiste!
6. Giro di Lombardia. La classica delle foglie morte!
7. La Flèche Wallone
8. Amstel Gold Race
9. Milano-San Remo. Meh! OK, La Primavera
10. Paris-Tours.
11. Gent-Wevelgem(there's just something that makes me think lowly of this race)

Ps: If I forget to add a race to the list just tell me and I'll consider adding it. No semi-classics please.

Feel free to discuss if you disagree.

And on an unrelated note perhaps. What would you guys think of a special jersey for the Olympic champion? Perhaps 4 years in a cool jersey is a too big gift?

 

[The Hitch]

1 World Championship Road Race. Makes you immediately one of the important guys in ANY race for the next 12 months. The Jersey is worth a lot

2 Olympics (get to wear a gold helmet for 4 years. How cool is that)

3 Liege Bastogne Liege (Vino, Schleck, Valverde, Di Luca big names have won it in recent years. Id say probably equal to Cancellara Boonen, but the guys that podium, top 10 - Cuddles, Contador, Purito, Samu, Gilbert, Frank,. Bigger than Flecha, Hushovd, Hammond, Backsted.)

4 Paris - Roubaix

5 Ronde van Vlaanderen- I prefer it to PR, but PRs placing as the last one, gives it more of a feel of a final so to speak.

6 Giro di Lombardia- Its a monument.

7 Flech Walone- Ardennes classics rock. TOp quality winners here

8 Amstel Gold Race- Another Ardennes

9 Milan San Remo - I dont care if its a monument. Its boring usually.

10 Ghent Wevelgem

11 Paris Tours.


Edit: I think you can wear the gold helmet for forever, not just 4 years.

 

[El Pistolero]

1 World Championship Road Race. Makes you immediately one of the important guys in ANY race for the next 12 months. The Jersey is worth a lot
2 Olympics (get to wear a gold helmet for 4 years. How cool is that)
3 Liege Bastogne Liege
4 Paris - Roubaix
5 Ronde van Vlaanderen
6 Giro di Lombardia
7 Flech Walone
8 Amstel Gold Race
9 Milan San Remo (dont care if its a monument)
10 Ghent Wevelgem
11 Paris Tours.

Yeah, you're right about this one. I'm going to rate it lower as well. Unless Boonen wins it next year Hehe, just kidding.

I do however think it's worth the monument status WHEN a non sprinter can win it. Like Pipo and Cancellara. But only for them.

 

[Lanark]

I would add San Sebastian and remove Gent-Wevelgem (terrible race). My list:

1. WC. Most important race after the Tour. Look at Hushovd and Evans, they become WC, suddenly everybody's interested
2. Liege. Toughest field, oldest race
3. Paris-Roubaix. Most unique race
4. Olympic Games. Too young (for pros) to be at the top, but still important
5. Milano - Sanremo. Biggest Italian classic, so obviously huge
6. Ronde van Vlaanderen
7. Giro di Lombardia
8. Amstel Gold Race
9. Fleche Wallone
10. Paris-Tours
11. Classica San Sebastian

 

[Moondance]

The Worlds is obviously top, no question about that in my mind. Then I think you get Paris-Roubaix. Between Flanders, Liege and Milan-Sanremo I think you're splitting hairs between them. Maybe Liege just edges it between the three, but I can't decide between Flanders and Sanremo. Lombardy is the 'lowest' of the monuments just because its at the end of the season, and the starting field is usually the most limited of the three. Noone who is in with a chance of winning the other four would dream of not showing up there without a plan to win, but some people just can't be f---ed to do Lombardy at the end of a long season.

Then comes the Olympics. Its a nice race, but too infrequent and changing for there to be a real tradition around the race. It gets this spot on the power of the gold medal though. That is super-cool.

Then comes Amstel Gold, trickiest of the remaining four. Fleche Wallonne comes next. Paris-Tours and finally Gent-Wevelgem, which I think has lost some status by making it one half of a weekend with E3, rather than the Fleche Wallonne position it used to have vis-a-vis Flanders and Roubaix.

So my hierarchy is:

1. Worlds (irrespective of parcours)
2. Paris-Roubaix
3. Liege
4 (tie). Milan-Sanremo
4 (tie). Flanders
6. Lombardy
7. Olympics
8. Amstel Gold
9. Fleche Wallonne
10. Paris-Tours
11. Gent-Wevelgem

EDIT: If San Sebastian is included I would put that on level pegging with Fleche Wallonne above Paris-Tours.

 

[Jan the Man]

For me-

1. Paris - Roubaix
2. Liege - Bastogne - Liege
3. Ronde Van Vlaanderen
4. World RR Championship
5. Giro di Lombardia
6. Milan - San Remo
7. Olympic Games
8. Amstel Gold
9. Paris - Tours
10. Fleche Wallone
11. Ghent - Welengem

 

[roundabout]

1.Flanders
2.Liege
3.Roubaix
4.Worlds
5.Lombardy
6.Olympics
7.Sanremo
8.Amstel
9. Fleche
10. Paris-Tours
11. Gent-Wevelgem

 

[jaylew]

Are we talking about our personal favorites or where we place them in overall prestige and importance?

 

[jens_attacks]

For me-

1. Paris - Roubaix
2. Liege - Bastogne - Liege
3. Ronde Van Vlaanderen
4. World RR Championship
5. Giro di Lombardia
6. Milan - San Remo
7. Olympic Games
8. Amstel Gold
9. Paris - Tours
10. Fleche Wallone
11. Ghent - Welengem

this.this.this.

 

[meandmygitane]

1. Olympic Road Race

Why? "The estimated gloal TV audience was put at 600 million" for just the road race in Sydney 2000

2009 all 14 UCI World Championships the total TV-viewers was "300-400 million".

So in numbers of viewers the Olympics is at least double in size. That's why!

1. Olympics
2. UCI worlds
3. P-R
4. RVV
5. LBL
6. Milano-San Remo
7. Lombardy
8. Fleche
9. Amstel
10. GW
11. Paris-Tours

 

[jsem94]

For me-

1. Paris - Roubaix
2. Liege - Bastogne - Liege
3. Ronde Van Vlaanderen
4. World RR Championship
5. Giro di Lombardia
6. Milan - San Remo
7. Olympic Games
8. Amstel Gold
9. Paris - Tours
10. Fleche Wallone
11. Ghent - Welengem

Pretty much agree witht this, I'd maybe rate fleche higher than PT though, cuz Mur de Huy is epic

 

[The Hitch]

1. Olympic Road Race

Why? "The estimated gloal TV audience was put at 600 million" for just the road race in Sydney 2000

2009 all 14 UCI World Championships the total TV-viewers was "300-400 million".

So in numbers of viewers the Olympics is at least double in size. That's why!

Do you have these numbers for other races? PR? Tour? Giro?

 

[ak-zaaf]

For me:
1. Vlaanderen. Amazing parcours, best atmosphere, just perfect.
2. Worlds. Country teams make it special. And the Jersey.
3. LBL. Longest history, most honest cycling parcours.
4. Roubaix. Legendary, but doesn't give me the Vlaanderen feeling.
5. Sanremo. The length, the fact Merckx won it 7 times...
6. Lombardia. Should be higher, lacks field.
7. Olympics. Meh.
8. Gold race. 250km+
9. Wevelgem. Kemmel!
10. Fleche. Bunch sprint on steroids.
11. Tours. Still looks good on a Palmares.

But nothing feels like the morning of the Omloop het Volk.

 

[Moondance]

For me:
1. Vlaanderen. Amazing parcours, best atmosphere, just perfect.
2. Worlds. Country teams make it special. And the Jersey.
3. LBL. Longest history, most honest cycling parcours.
4. Roubaix. Legendary, but doesn't give me the Vlaanderen feeling.
5. Sanremo. The length, the fact Merckx won it 7 times...
6. Lombardia. Should be higher, lacks field.
7. Olympics. Meh.
8. Gold race. 250km+
9. Wevelgem. Kemmel!
10. Fleche. Bunch sprint on steroids.
11. Tours. Still looks good on a Palmares.

But nothing feels like the morning of the Omloop het Volk.

Amen to that!

 

[meandmygitane]

Do you have these numbers for other races? PR? Tour? Giro?

A quick google gave me:
http://www.aso.fr/2005/cyclisme/us/jour01.html

P-R 12.1 million viewers in Europe 2004. So it is significantly smaller (but it has other qualities ofc. history, prestige etc.) Didn't find any newer.

For Giro d'Italia I didn't find anything conclusive, maybe someone else does?

But say Giro draws 20 million viewers daily for 21 stages, it would make it bigger than Worlds but probably smaller than Olympics.

The Olympics are broadcasted "everywhere" and probably reaches a lot of people who have never seen a RR elsewhere or otherwise.

So everyone who watches UCI worlds probably watches the Olympics but not opposite way.

And once every 4 years (will) make(s) it a special event (in the future).
(I realize that it's a controversial statement and maybe a lot of fans and cyclists think prestige and history weighs heavier, but in the future who can tell? A lot has happened since professionals got the opportunity to win 1996.)

Hmm.. maybe I like P-R and RVV best "personally" and would put it before Worlds and Olympics if the TV-viewers where "discarded"

 

[The Hitch]

A quick google gave me:
http://www.aso.fr/2005/cyclisme/us/jour01.html

P-R 12.1 million viewers in Europe 2004. So it is significantly smaller (but it has other qualities ofc. history, prestige etc.) Didn't find any newer.

For Giro d'Italia I didn't find anything conclusive, maybe someone else does?

But say Giro draws 20 million viewers daily for 21 stages, it would make it bigger than Worlds but probably smaller than Olympics.

The Olympics are broadcasted "everywhere" and probably reaches a lot of people who have never seen a RR elsewhere or otherwise.

So everyone who watches UCI worlds probably watches the Olympics but not opposite way.

And once every 4 years (will) make(s) it a special event (in the future).
(I realize that it's a controversial statement and maybe a lot of fans and cyclists think prestige and history weighs heavier, but in the future who can tell? A lot has happened since professionals got the opportunity to win 1996.)

Hmm.. maybe I like P-R and RVV best "personally" and would put it before Worlds and Olympics if the TV-viewers where "discarded"

Well the ORR was given a big boost by the fact that it was in China. Hold any event in China and the viewing figures will reach the hundreds of millions. The World Strongest Man had hundreds of millions of viewers when they held it there ( i know because Pudzianowski is my countryman).

As for the road race, i find it difficult to believe 300 mil watched that. Then again, i do live in England where the sport is never covered so cand judge exactly how big it is in Europe.

 

[zapata]

For me:
1. Vlaanderen. Amazing parcours, best atmosphere, just perfect.
2. Worlds. Country teams make it special. And the Jersey.
3. LBL. Longest history, most honest cycling parcours.
4. Roubaix. Legendary, but doesn't give me the Vlaanderen feeling.
5. Sanremo. The length, the fact Merckx won it 7 times...
6. Lombardia. Should be higher, lacks field.
7. Olympics. Meh.
8. Gold race. 250km+
9. Wevelgem. Kemmel!
10. Fleche. Bunch sprint on steroids.
11. Tours. Still looks good on a Palmares.

But nothing feels like the morning of the Omloop het Volk.

1. Paris-Roubaix
2. World championship
3. Liege-Bastogne-Liege
4. Flanders
5. Lombardia
6. Milan-San Remo
7. Amstel
8. Gent-Wevelgem
9. Fleche Walonne
10. San Sevastian
11. Paris-Tours

Unsure where to put the olympics. On the one hand, it's pretty much like the WC. On the other hand, it occurs so seldomly that I forgot about it. But if I were a rider, I guess I'd treasure an olympic win more than almost any race, except the monuments. And Het Volk would be worth at least at much to me as Paris-tours.

 

[Arnout]

Well the ORR was given a big boost by the fact that it was in China. Hold any event in China and the viewing figures will reach the hundreds of millions. The World Strongest Man had hundreds of millions of viewers when they held it there ( i know because Pudzianowski is my countryman).

As for the road race, i find it difficult to believe 300 mil watched that. Then again, i do live in England where the sport is never covered so cand judge exactly how big it is in Europe.

He got the figures from the 2000 one. Actually a lot of people saw the China one as well as it was early in the games (no games tiredness yet) and the time was decent.

Anyway, my list:

1. Worlds. The jersey. Attention in every race.
2. Ronde van Vlaanderen. The big race of the biggest cycling nation.
3. LBL. Classic
4. Paris - Roubaix. Race of the past.
5. Olympics. Gold medal is special
6. Lombardia. Brilliant race, shame many of the top riders are already on vacation by then. Worthy last race of the season though.
7. Sanremo. Classic. Poggio, Cipressa, one of the alltime greats. Interesting profile as well as many, many riders have a chance.
8. Paris - Tours. Shame this year was the last time they could use the Avenue. That was special and I fear this race will go down further without it.
9. Fleche Wallone. Last kilometre is brilliant, but it is not a real classic due to its length.
10. San Sebastian. This year with the added hills it was a good race. Lacks history but Basque supporters make up for it. Place on the calender (just after Tour) means it doesn't get the attention it deserves.
11. Amstel Gold Race. The name fails to make an impact on me. Hate sponsor names.
12. Wevelgem. Needs wind and rain to liven things up. Says it all.

 

[Parrulo]

1- LBL
2- RVV
3- P-R
4- worlds
5- lombardy
6- amstell
7- fleche
8- san sebastian
9- san remo(ewww sprinters)
10- paris-tours
11- olympics (its special and it gets you a cool helmet but i for me its nothing but a race that happens "once in a while")

 

[meandmygitane]

Well the ORR was given a big boost by the fact that it was in China. Hold any event in China and the viewing figures will reach the hundreds of millions. The World Strongest Man had hundreds of millions of viewers when they held it there ( i know because Pudzianowski is my countryman).

As for the road race, i find it difficult to believe 300 mil watched that. Then again, i do live in England where the sport is never covered so cand judge exactly how big it is in Europe.

Yeah but my 600-mill. number is from Sydney 2000, probably a bit lower in Athens and yet higher in Beijing. So maybe 700-800 mill.?

The "as for"-paragraphe was it the UCI Worlds RR you thought of?

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah but my 600-mill. number is from Sydney 2000, probably a bit lower in Athens and yet higher in Beijing. So maybe 700-800 mill.?

The "as for"-paragraphe was it the UCI Worlds RR you thought of?

Ah I see. The figures were for Sydney.

As for the as for paragraph. Yes the UCI Worlds RR.

Its difficult for me to imagine the road race getting 300 million viewers, to just 20 mil a day for the Tour, considering the Tour is considered far far more important.

Also, lets be honest, this thing of ours isnt the biggest sport in the world, which is another reason i am surprised to hear such huge masses watching it. Then again, living in a country where the Worlds RR didnt even make the news, you can see why i might underestimate its popularity.

Im not saying your stats, are wrong but these figures are mostly estimates and in my opinion these things can be exagerated. Though even if the figure was 100 mil it would still shock me.

 

[hfer07]

1. Ronde Van Vlaanderen
2. Paris - Roubaix
3. Liege - Bastogne - Liege
4. World RR Championship & Giro di Lombardia
5. Milan - San Remo, Amstel Gold & Fleche Wallone
6. Ghent-Welengem, San Sebastian, Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
7. Paris - Tours
*Olympic Games (for me is a lessen World's happening every 4 years)

One race not named in this thread that I like a lot is Montepaschi Strade Bianche

 

[El Pistolero]

Are we talking about our personal favorites or where we place them in overall prestige and importance?

You can do both. Mine is more personal, but I also took into consideration the overall prestige and importance.

 

[Francois the Postman]

How they rule me:

1. Paris Roubaix
2. Ronde van Vlaanderen

2.5 Omloop het Volk (or whatever they are trying to make me call it these days)

3. Liege Bastogne Liege
4. Gent Wevelgem v2.0 (was at #7, but I really like what they did with it last year)
5. Worlds
6. Milan Sanremo
7. Amstel Gold
8. Lombardia
9. Fleche Wallone
10. Olympics
11. Tours

 

[hrotha]

1. WC RR
2. Liège-Bastogne-Liège
3. Paris-Roubaix
4. Giro di Lombardia
5. Ronde van Vlaanderen
6. Milan-San Remo
7. Flèche Wallone
8. Olympic Games RR
9. Paris-Tours
10. Amstel Gold Race
11. Gent-Wevelgem