The sewer is open, the UCI is on trial, what are we doing today?

Jul 10, 2010
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Ok, folks! Lookit here! WE HAVE PLUMBED THE SEWER! Haleluja! The depths of the darkness of Lance and the Dark Era have been revealed. We have seen the sewer - I think all we are doing now is plumbing and mapping corners, nooks, and crannies. That's detail work - it is not worthy of this august body of denizens that is THE CLINIC! The Clinic can do the detail sniping on their coffee time, they are that good at it!

Today the target has moved to the UCI! So here is my question - what are YOU doing today? What are WE doing today, to move forward? Are you going to get left behind, your part in history over?

The Gazzeta's Manifesto for Credible Cycling called for a summit and decision BEFORE the 2013 season!
That a summit be held before the start of the 2013 season to redefine the new and more credible structure and new governance and regulations. We confide that the world of cycling seizes this historic opportunity to completely change the structure of the sport.
The Manifesto for Credible Cycling

What are WE doing to make this happen? Tell us what YOU are doing! Tell us what the rest of us ignorant peasants can do! (I mean, realistically, me emailing USACycling at this point seems to me a bit like asking the capo to judge the godfather: ie not likely to make much progress. But, in Oz and Kiwiland, writing in support of their recent actions could be seen positively, yes?)

The focus has moved, from Lance, to the UCI! LOOK at all this energy!

independence-critical-for-clean-sport-says-tygart
obree-calls-the-uci-a-chum-ocracy
british-cycling-head-questions-uci-credibility
cycling-australia-bikenz-drop-confederation-support-of-turtur
skins-launch-dollar-2-million-law-suit-against-uci-over-handling-of-anti-doping-fight
cycling-was-a-deeply-criminal-business-says-millar

Oh, and I know this has been posted before, but it is appropriate here, also.
When asked about the doping scandals embroiling cycling, Wiggins admitted he shared the anger shown by many fans of the sport.

"I think there's a lot of anger, like with most people in the sport," he said.

"It's a sport I love and have always loved. It's a shame that cycling is being dragged through this again. It's not a shame he's been caught. As you get older, you start to realise that Father Christmas doesn't exist. And that was always the case with Lance."

"It's a shame that the riders here now, and I think I speak for everyone on that stage, we're the ones picking up the pieces now very much, and having to convince people that the sport has changed. It's difficult, it really is, because of the precedent that has been set and ingrained for so long now. I don't have an answer to that, other than going out and continue what I'm doing."
wiggins-compares-armstrong-to-father-christmas

This guy, Miller, is doing something:
the-oceania-confederation-website-a-grass-roots-protest-against-the-uci
So, maybe one of you can do some html pages, and we see if we can convince Mr Miller to use the Oceania Confederation site to give a larger voice to the "end-user" namely, US? (Update: the UCI has apparently removed their link to Oceaniacycling.com, so here ya go: http://www.oceaniacycling.com/)

The Kimmage fund is over 90K today - and many of you have given to it. But that is only one small aspect. We need something larger to change the UCI.

Will we see a "Manifest for Credible Cycling" summit happen in the next 2 or 3 months? We need it. We want it! We need to figure out what we can do to make sure a summit happens, and something is done about the heading of the UCI. It has to change.

What can WE do? What are YOU doing?

Thanks, and cheers;

hiero
 
Mar 19, 2009
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If I still had my UCI licence, I would not renew it for a while. Who-ever needs their licence before March anyway? The old one is still OK for cross in most countries.
 
Honestly?

No moving on.

I would argue we don't know 1/4 of what those terrorists Pat and Hein have done that is illegal depending on jurisdiction, breaks the UCI's own rules, or plainly wrong, but for which there is no rule.

This moving people on strategy has worked out so well for Pat and Hein, there's no reason to stop using it as cover for their long and wide trail of corruption. You have been employing it for quite a while and it only enables the Tin Pot Dictator Verbruggen and his terrorist network. The next UCI doping/fraud scandal is right around the corner.

We **STILL** have Pat and Hein working hard to protect Wonderboy that there has to be something much, much bigger at least the three of them are hiding. Could it be a stream of payments to buy the TdF titles?
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Well - it sounds to me like Pound is saying that the UCI is still "business as usual":
pound-the-appointment-of-coates-is-troubling

We've been lucky here in the Clinic - we've had the opportunity to have a little say in history this past year. That doesn't happen often when you're just one of the hoi polloi.

I see that people are extending energy to make the UCI the target, and they are doing it at high levels. That is a good sign a revolt is pending.

But, they still need our energy to back them. Somehow. I don't know what I can do, though. Like I said, in the US, our guys seem to be as complicit as McQuaid, so writing them will probably be meaningless.

We need to keep the UCI on the hot seat. I find Pound's words discouraging, unless somebody is ready to take over with a completely new organization to completely replace the UCI. And that is not likely.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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I'm reading a handwaving missive from someone who wants to "move on".

I'm reading another backflip from the current peloton patron.

I'm hardening my resolve to expose the corruption and lies.
 
Jul 9, 2010
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hiero2 said:
But, they still need our energy to back them. Somehow. I don't know what I can do, though. Like I said, in the US, our guys seem to be as complicit as McQuaid, so writing them will probably be meaningless.
You might try and get rid of him, too.

hiero2 said:
We need to keep the UCI on the hot seat. I find Pound's words discouraging, unless somebody is ready to take over with a completely new organization to completely replace the UCI. And that is not likely.
Coates' appointment is not necessarily a positive sign. Then again, when was the last time a national fed balked?
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
I'm reading a handwaving missive from someone who wants to "move on".

I'm reading another backflip from the current peloton patron.

I'm hardening my resolve to expose the corruption and lies.
arjanh said:
You might try and get rid of him, too.
Coates' appointment is not necessarily a positive sign. Then again, when was the last time a national fed balked?
DW! If you are talking about me, I did not write as well as I thought. Move on? Nyet. Here were my points.
Armstrong is guilty. We have decided that. It is done. He is convicted. It is proven. We don't NEED to argue the case any more.

The UCI is now getting the brunt of the heat. As they righteously deserve. We need to do what WE can to add to that heat. We do NOT need to sit back and just gossip amongst ourselves, essentially doing nothing to assist the downfall of the UCI. We DO need to take whatever action we can to support the ousting of McQuaid, and the entry of somebody new. Is it clear now?

Arjanh: Coates appointment is certainly NOT a positive sign. Again, I thought I said that clearly. Pounds does not think it is positive, and not knowing the players and personnel personally, I bow to his reasoning. It certainly smacks, to me, of Obree's "chum-ocracy".
 
Sep 29, 2012
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hiero2 said:
DW! If you are talking about me, I did not write as well as I thought. Move on? Nyet. Here were my points.
Armstrong is guilty. We have decided that. It is done. He is convicted. It is proven. We don't NEED to argue the case any more.
Thanks for clarifying :D I am getting very sick of the "move on" message from pro cyclists. (grrrr)

And we will continue to agree to disagree that you can fix a single element of a system (the UCI) in isolation and fix the system (pro cycling) in totality ;)

I Certainly agree Armstrong is almost irrelevant to the big picture, and a symptom of the sickness, rather than one of its many causes. The new threads continue to pop up - even by esteemed and respected members of The Clinic make me :rolleyes: but I acknowledge I am more than guilty of inducing said occular acrobatics myself.

As for what I am doing. Writing some software. My research folder got too big and unwieldy, filled with downloaded PDFs and web pages. I am a visually oriented person also, so text is not always the best way for me to "see" things. Hope to post something up next week some time.

Also very interested in discussion regarding developing a better system for cycling. Have contributed but ongoing discussion is limited. :D
 
Aug 27, 2012
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What you see happening today is the outcome of stuff that was seeded weeks/months/years ago.

The train has left the station, well and truly. There is nothing stopping the demise of Pat & Hein. They are done/gone. Whether the Coates review will be a whitewash or properly done, doesn't matter. The leading national feds have had enough. They are worried they will be out of their jobs with the fan base as irate as it is. And some of them are truly concerned about the sport. It's like an upcoming general election being a back bencher for the party that has lost substantial support in the polls. Who are you going to back? The local electorate voter. And the politicians themselves are now getting involved. See Lundy in Australia, see Switzerland proposing changing legislation. It's happening, because of public pressure.

So it's all about keeping a focus on public pressure. Via posts here, via seeding journo's, tweeting them, via writing articles, and doing some background work yourself if you can. Spread the word, with google your friend and forums/twitter your toolbox.

Still to come, Ferrari, Padua, Kimmage, Bruyneel, continuing Rabo fall out, and various other things that we cannot yet predict - they will all happen. AND public ire will move to other sports and IOC. You see it in the media already. That's also a likely reason why Coates was appointed. Because IOC is s**t scared.

So the future looks good with regard to new leadership.

What we can/must contribute now is a focus on WHAT clean and professional cycling administration must look like. Shift the debate. So that it's not "more of the same" by the new UCI leadership. And this requires a broader understanding by more people in general of cycling sports administration. Beyond the basic anti-doping stuff:
- what is the UCI revenue model, where do they make their money
- who holds media rights and revenue on the major GTs, and what does that mean
- what do sponsors want and how does the above affect that
- how should the sport be promoted? Do we need more emphasis on events (camera shots of green fields and castles), or more heroism and focus on riders and teams... (food for thought here, compare to F1 and soccer)
- with the commercial power with the major tour/event organizers, what should be the real role of UCI? And how to partner with tour organizers on the promotion of the sport.

These just some personal thoughts. Admit I am learning in fully understanding the above myself. But it's critical if we are to move the debate beyond the "simple" anti-doping issue. In any case, the anti-doping issue is totally intertwined within sports admin. Much of the UCI power comes through their "control" of the anti-doping effort. Hence the fighting by Pat & Hein to hang onto this at all cost...
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Tinman said:
The leading national feds have had enough. They are worried they will be out of their jobs with the fan base as irate as it is. And some of them are truly concerned about the sport.
THAT!

That is going to be the kicker.

Enough pressure on the Nat'l Feds, and their vote may become a little more plastic than it has been.

"No more Hein and Pat"? Ensure your Fed's voting the right way.

If not, actually even if they are, demand an audit.

Doping is a symptom of cycling being destroyed.

The disease is corruption.

CORRUPTION.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Pound is asking for what many of us recommended these last years while the Lance fixated were still in denial. It's not detail work...it is the work! Lance, Weisel, Bruyneel, Riis, Ferrari...all profiteers in the circus. The UCI, like the IOC were the clerks skimming perks and bribes whereever possible. Ideally; this shouldn't stop until the sh*t scope goes all the way up to the Olympic franchise operators.
I've been accused of imagining much of what is coming to light so I like my odds on the depth of this involving higher levels of money laundering, tax evasion and political influence. You only need to look at the commercial interests like Amgen and Johnson/Johnson to see what's at stake and who's hiding from the truth.
 
May 26, 2009
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So much " back slapping going on around the " clinic "!

FACT IS YOU ACHIEVED NOTHING ! The world passed you by ! Do you for one moment think that the decision makers READ your verbiage ? NO they do not and if they did ? "Sticks & stones "!

As individuals we count for nothing since most of YOU are counted as CRAVEN COWARDS hiding behind " pseudonyms & fictitious IP addresses !

Change.org petition : http://t.co/oFWgsHA7 was created to mobilise numbers , it is not for those that choose to throw MUD ! Paul K. fund has demonstrated the POWER of Numbers ! The other petition created by a forum member is above 800 as we talk .

YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING ? Add your moniker to the petition , NUMBERS speak louder than comments and eventually like dripping water , get a result !

SKINS have created interest by their US$2M action and Jamie Fuller has ADDED his support ! He realises that numbers and additional avenues will contribute to what he is trying to achieve !

CHANGE ! Change NOW , not in decades to come ! Email him and he answers you , either he has an important message or he has money to make people follow his Initiative !

WE LEAD , will you follow , or waffle on in pursuit of the written word ? Bickering amongst each other achieves NOTHING , oh , but it does turn many away from the thread !

DO IT NOW ! add your vote for change :

http://t.co/oFWgsHA7
 
Nov 3, 2012
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Out with the old and in with the new. Although Hein has been within the UCI for so long now he could possibly be institutionalized, within the organization,:rolleyes: Pat on the other hand seems to think that his current position is tenable. Both Pat and Hein need to do the honorable thing by resigning. Although I cannot see that happening, under the current climate the public vote of no confidence against the current UCI leadership needs to be maintained through the media.

Corruption at Shawshank



Corruption at the UCI

 
Jul 28, 2009
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skippy said:
As individuals we count for nothing since most of YOU are counted as CRAVEN COWARDS hiding behind " pseudonyms & fictitious IP addresses !
Hypocrisy much WHAT? I'm surprised an omerta lover like yourself has the gall to come and post on the clinic with your proclamations on how to clean up the UCI since according to you all was well until a nasty great penny dropped recently. With your posting history and MALFUNCTIONING CAPS LOCK KEY you'd have to be STARK RAVING MAD to post that. enuff said
 
Jul 25, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
THAT!

That is going to be the kicker.

Enough pressure on the Nat'l Feds, and their vote may become a little more plastic than it has been.

"No more Hein and Pat"? Ensure your Fed's voting the right way.

If not, actually even if they are, demand an audit.

Doping is a symptom of cycling being destroyed.

The disease is corruption.

CORRUPTION.
Yep, pressure on the national Feds has to be maintained. They have to be held accountable by licence holders, for the mess that is the UCI. After all, the Feds voted for the people who made the mess, and failed to stop the rot once it set in.

Accountability is the antidote to corruption. Licence holders have a role in that accountability, cycling needs them to exercise their vote!
 
skippy said:
So much " back slapping going on around the " clinic "!

FACT IS YOU ACHIEVED NOTHING ! The world passed you by ! Do you for one moment think that the decision makers READ your verbiage ? NO they do not and if they did ? "Sticks & stones "!

As individuals we count for nothing since most of YOU are counted as CRAVEN COWARDS hiding behind " pseudonyms & fictitious IP addresses !

Change.org petition : http://t.co/oFWgsHA7 was created to mobilise numbers , it is not for those that choose to throw MUD ! Paul K. fund has demonstrated the POWER of Numbers ! The other petition created by a forum member is above 800 as we talk .

YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING ? Add your moniker to the petition , NUMBERS speak louder than comments and eventually like dripping water , get a result !

SKINS have created interest by their US$2M action and Jamie Fuller has ADDED his support ! He realises that numbers and additional avenues will contribute to what he is trying to achieve !

CHANGE ! Change NOW , not in decades to come ! Email him and he answers you , either he has an important message or he has money to make people follow his Initiative !

WE LEAD , will you follow , or waffle on in pursuit of the written word ? Bickering amongst each other achieves NOTHING , oh , but it does turn many away from the thread !

DO IT NOW ! add your vote for change :

http://t.co/oFWgsHA7
Goodness!

I have graduated to a Craven Coward.

Does this mean I have to change my handle to C-Queued?

Skippy, I applaud your zeal and your petition. I can assure you, however, that lots of influential people read these forums.

Even with my Cowardice, I get plenty of (sometimes unwelcome) feedback from those with influence.

BTW - What is a fictitious IP address, and how do I get one?

Dave.
 

mountainrman

BANNED
Oct 17, 2012
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Why do we need UCI?

Create a manifesto for a new organisation and rule structure behind a credible leader ( LeMond ? Ashenden?) for whole of pro sport result management and doping enforcement agency and ask national federations to sign up instead. Leave UCI as an irrelevant unfunded dinosaur which quietly goes bust, or as a stripped down promotion agency only.Saves having to wait years to get rid of them all.

Now the ex WADA medical director confirms meetings were held at UCI regarding Armstrong doping, apparently accepting it as a fact, UCI leave themselves open to furhter law suits from sponsors, so With a few revelations from Bruyneel too, the organisation may yet implode in litigation. Base the future on something with better foundations.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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mountainrman said:
Why do we need UCI?

Create a manifesto for a new organisation and rule structure behind a credible leader ( LeMond ? Ashenden?) for whole of pro sport result management and doping enforcement agency and ask national federations to sign up instead. Leave UCI as an irrelevant unfunded dinosaur which quietly goes bust, or as a stripped down promotion agency only.Saves having to wait years to get rid of them all.

Now the ex WADA medical director confirms meetings were held at UCI regarding Armstrong doping, apparently accepting it as a fact, UCI leave themselves open to furhter law suits from sponsors, so With a few revelations from Bruyneel too, the organisation may yet implode in litigation. Base the future on something with better foundations.
While this seems good there are some worthwhile folks in those organizations. Skippy's call for a public outing by us Cowards ignores a simple fact: Coups don't work that way. Note the USADA decision was carefully prepared before release instead of a public parade of witnesses.

I had a recent conversation with a UCI International Commissar who is now a wide-eyed advocate for change. He claims some discussions among like-minded UCI operatives that are prepared to deliver some organized disclosure because the UCI and separately, USA Cycling management; are all grilling their people to find out what they know. The tone, he says; is that the organizations are interviewing with the motivation to counter negative testimony. This hasn't made the interviewees comfortable or willing to stand up in Skippy's town square to declare their suspicions.

Stay tuned.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
Thanks for clarifying :D I am getting very sick of the "move on" message from pro cyclists. (grrrr)

And we will continue to agree to disagree that you can fix a single element of a system (the UCI) in isolation and fix the system (pro cycling) in totality ;)
. . . .
Clarifying, yup, yup, no problemo.

agree to disagree? Actually we agree on that - but I only aim at one target at a time. Easier to aim that way! :)
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Tinman said:
What you see happening today is the outcome of stuff that was seeded weeks/months/years ago.

The train has left the station, well and truly. There is nothing stopping the demise of Pat & Hein. They are done/gone. ..
I hope that you are right - but a complacent flock of sheep get the shepherd they deserve. I don't wish to be fleeced in this matter.

We, in the Clinic, are in the unusual position of actually having people at the top listening, at least occasionally. We have been participants in recent history, even if only in a small way. But, I believe the energy here will help keep the pot at the top boiling a little longer. I will call no soup before its time!

Oldman said:
While this seems good there are some worthwhile folks in those organizations. Skippy's call for a public outing by us Cowards ignores a simple fact: Coups don't work that way. Note the USADA decision was carefully prepared before release instead of a public parade of witnesses.

I had a recent conversation with a UCI International Commissar who is now a wide-eyed advocate for change. He claims some discussions among like-minded UCI operatives that are prepared to deliver some organized disclosure because the UCI and separately, USA Cycling management; are all grilling their people to find out what they know. The tone, he says; is that the organizations are interviewing with the motivation to counter negative testimony. This hasn't made the interviewees comfortable or willing to stand up in Skippy's town square to declare their suspicions.

Stay tuned.
Staying tuned.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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D-Queued said:
Goodness!

BTW - What is a fictitious IP address, and how do I get one?

Dave.
192.168.0.1 - set up a multi-threaded pingbot aimed at that address - effectively a DOS attack. It's a good un. Trust me.

The other one is 127.0.0.1 - usually very easily hackable.

er

yeah.
 

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