There is no way Cancellera is Clean!

[TubularBills]

I'm a huge fan... but recognized that I was having the same emotional reaction to watching him win that I was having when Lance was working his "magic."

Yeah, his victories are a thing of beauty, but so was watching Pantani, Vandenbroucke, Armstrong and Contador.

I'm tired of false heroes.

Mechanical doping is BS, but...

Can't help but feel he's on a program?

Why?

He's spot on, on target when it matters and spot off otherwise?

Peaking with that precision is suspect?

Plus, purely speculative... he left the Vuelta, unexpectedly. Went Home, for family... showed up in Australia and won his fourth? Conjugal visit? ...or a charm of another sort... the vampire's kiss?

 

[hector5950]

Well for starters, stop making these clowns into your "heroes". They do nothing heroic, they ride bikes for your entertainment. At the end of a race if you can answer "yes" when asked if you were entertained for X hours while you watched they did their job.

Why people make athletes into heroes is beyond me.

 

[Juicy McDrip]

Is Cancellara clean?

Either Yes or No. TTs vs. TdF. His TTs are legendary and so are his 1-day races. No chance for the Tour. Unless he gets on the Program. Or...he's on the Program and simply doesn't haven't Have What it Takes.

You be the Judge. But remember 2 words:

Miguel Indurain.

A genetic Terminator. And in the sweet spot of 90's crazy-fast cycling.

Spain.

5-times TdF winner. And he was much larger than Fabio Cancellation.

The dude was a horse. On Lasik? Ha!!

Last words...Fabian Cancellara is awesome.

 

[TubularBills]

Well for starters, stop making these clowns into your "heroes". They do nothing heroic, they ride bikes for your entertainment. At the end of a race if you can answer "yes" when asked if you were entertained for X hours while you watched they did their job.

Why people make athletes into heroes is beyond me.

if that was the case they wouldn't cash the checks.

 

[Altitude]

Well for starters, stop making these clowns into your "heroes". They do nothing heroic, they ride bikes for your entertainment. At the end of a race if you can answer "yes" when asked if you were entertained for X hours while you watched they did their job.

Why people make athletes into heroes is beyond me.

I'd say athletes (cyclists in particular) do plenty of things that can be considered heroic.

As for Cancellara, who cares if he's clean? He's still the best classics rider/time trialist in the world (although I'd watch out for Hushovd next spring).

I guess I shouldn't say "who cares if he's clean", I'm sure many people do. But it certainly doesn't change the fact that he's the best classics/TTist.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I'd say athletes (cyclists in particular) do plenty of things that can be considered heroic.

As for Cancellara, who cares if he's clean? He's still the best classics rider/time trialist in the world (although I'd watch out for Hushovd next spring).

I guess I shouldn't say "who cares if he's clean", I'm sure many people do. But it certainly doesn't change the fact that he's the best classics/TTist.

I'm smiling but my eyes are dead

 

[TubularBills]

I'd say athletes (cyclists in particular) do plenty of things that can be considered heroic.

As for Cancellara, who cares if he's clean? He's still the best classics rider/time trialist in the world (although I'd watch out for Hushovd next spring).

I guess I shouldn't say "who cares if he's clean", I'm sure many people do. But it certainly doesn't change the fact that he's the best classics/TTist.

Altitude, respect... But by that same logic, Armstrong is the best Tour winner ever? I have trouble with that, in that the purpose of sport is to give us something to aspire to. Within the realm of unadulterated potential. I hope I don't ever have to augment the statement: You can be a champion too! Without having to add, "if you're willing to boost!"

Though, I also admit... watching these performances 'gives me a boost' and gets my heart racing, in the adrenalin punching moment... until later, when I consider the possibilities of an enhanced performance. Then I think of the East German Swimmers and all of the eastern block gymnasts and the magic dissolves. Lives ruined in the pursuit of some ethereal and false hope.

Winning clean must be a rush, and indeed is something to aspire to, and is therefore heroic.

I doubt any kid aspires to dope?

and in answer to your question, I Care if he's clean!

 

[Altitude]

Altitude, respect... But by that same logic, Armstrong is the best Tour winner ever? I have trouble with that, in that the purpose of sport is to give us something to aspire to. Within the realm of unadulterated potential. I hope I don't ever have to augment the statement: You can be a champion too! Without having to add, "if you're willing to boost!"

Though, I also admit... watching these performances 'gives me a boost' and gets my heart racing, in the adrenalin punching moment... until later, when I consider the possibilities of an enhanced performance. Then I think of the East German Swimmers and all of the eastern block gymnasts and the magic dissolves. Lives ruined in the pursuit of some ethereal and false hope.

Winning clean must be a rush, and indeed is something to aspire to, and is therefore heroic.

I doubt any kid aspires to dope?

and in answer to your question, I Care if he's clean!

He could be clean-- unless he tests positive we'll never know for sure. Anyhow I personally don't believe that cycling is as dirty as a lot of people make it out to be (I'd argue that Garmin is clean).

But overall I'm just not as bothered by doping as most people are-- I suppose this gives me the luxury of being able to appreciate a great performance without over analyzing it. I'd certainly prefer a clean performance over a not so clean one, but I won't be devestated if it's the latter. How many think that Vino was clean this year? Doesn't change the fact that he had people glued to their television sets more than once or twice. Most people appreciate what he's able to do on the bike, PED's or not. Even the most staunch anti-doping fans will still tune in to watch him.

^^and then bltch about how doped he is

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Cancellara clean? LMAO. I bet he's been on a program for years. Maybe even before his Fassa Bortolo days.

 

[hector5950]

I'd say athletes (cyclists in particular) do plenty of things that can be considered heroic.

What is heroic about riding a bicycle for the entertainment/ advertising advantage of others?

 

[Marcus135]

The moment he starts to get near the top 10 in a grand tour then you can say hes not clean. He is an amazing time trialist and one day racer and now i think he is clean. Its when people start becoming good at something they are not known for that you suspect something (Contador suddenly becoming an amazing time trialist a few years back, now bout to be done for doping)

 

[pedaling squares]

The moment he starts to get near the top 10 in a grand tour then you can say hes not clean. He is an amazing time trialist and one day racer and now i think he is clean. Its when people start becoming good at something they are not known for that you suspect something (Contador suddenly becoming an amazing time trialist a few years back, now bout to be done for doping)

In my case, it's when people don't just win the big events but absolutely crush top-flite opposition again and again that I suspect something. I don't put too much into guilt by association but, he rode for Fasso, he rode for Riis, hey maybe he only intended to dope!

 

[Steel4Ever]

I'd say athletes (cyclists in particular) do plenty of things that can be considered heroic.

I guess if by heroic you really mean ultimately selfish, then yes, utterly heroic.

...hey maybe he only intended to dope!

I intended to dope, too. Was just too lazy to actually get around to it though.
That's probably why I'm slow and non-pro.

 

[redtreviso]

In this year's tour cancellara hammered to the top of a major climb leading schmuck then pulled off and lost 15 min..He showed he could climb with the best if only for one mtn pass.. He more than had the legs for it, if he was juiced he could have gone on. If all of a sudden he remained with the climbers to the end of the stages it would be much more believable than Lance Armstrong who never showed any such ability before 99. If Fabian wins the next 5 tour de frances or Mark Cavendish for that matter I don't see any reason for people to start throwing a fit after rah rahing Lance Armstrong all these years.

 

[BroDeal]

I
You be the Judge. But remember 2 words:

Miguel Indurain.

A genetic Terminator. And in the sweet spot of 90's crazy-fast cycling.

Spain.

5-times TdF winner. And he was much larger than Fabio Cancellation.

The dude was a horse. On Lasik? Ha!!

Early on a client of Dr. Conconi.

Team doping program.

Retired when the 50% rule was imposed.

Riis took the horse to the glue factory.

 

[Leopejo]

Well for starters, stop making these clowns into your "heroes".

Don't listen to hector.

Why people make athletes into heroes is beyond me.

I hope one day you'll get it, you don't know how much you are missing.

 

[TubularBills]

Early on a client of Dr. Conconi.

Team doping program.

Retired when the 50% rule was imposed.

Riis took the horse to the glue factory.

Tangential and off topic, but since someone mentioned Big Mig - here's a great narrative with pics from the 91 tour - kinda fun since its off season... puts you in the moment with some good color...

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5044&status=True

and ends with a PDM doping story... so back on topic... systemic team sponsored doping:

"What became of Erik Breukink and his PDM team? According to some research on the interweb, the apparent 'food poisoning' was an utter lie and it came out later that it was much more sinister than that, later becoming known as the Intralipid Affaire. From CyclingNews way back in 1997 (or you can look over to Cycling4Fans for more on the scandal...in German): "The image of the PDM riders shivering miserably after they had stopped riding and having to get support to get back to their hotel rooms, was shown the whole world over. The complete team of favourites, with 3 men leading the GC, had to retire home with influenza, feverish and in obvious pain. Everywhere there was bewilderment...The French doctor, Jean-Daniel Fleysakier said the riders would have been very ill with "high fever, a feeling like influenza, muscle pain and neck cramp, typical of of an overdose of EPO."

There was no real proof though in 1991, it took about five years before the real truth came out...

"This week, the PDM manager of the day Manfred Krikke spoke, after he was confronted with the revelations, though reluctantly: "When we started PDM we decided that we would not be the most ethical team in the peloton. The one rule imposed from the PDM directors was that there was to be "no drug affairs" rather than "no drug taking. Within this direction, we experimented with products that were just within or over the edge of legality. Just like in other sports. We were not doing anything that the other teams were doing.""

There's a ton more to the story, so it's well worth reading about, but it seemed rather interesting...team managed doping in the 1990's...somehow it seems almost pertinent right now."

 

[S2Sturges]

Early on a client of Dr. Conconi.

Team doping program.

Retired when the 50% rule was imposed.

Riis took the horse to the glue factory.

Wasn't his nickname Mr 60%? No one could catch Riis that year.. Mig never had a chance

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Wasn't his nickname Mr 60%? No one could catch Riis that year.. Mig never had a chance

It actually was 64%

 

[craig1985]

Well Nibali was meant to be the only rider on Fassa Bortolo who stayed away from any dodgy Italian doctor/trainer, so you do the math then...

 

[SpartacusRox]

Cancellara clean? LMAO. I bet he's been on a program for years. Maybe even before his Fassa Bortolo days.

I am assuming that you have some evidence to back up yet another of your wildly speculative claims??? maybe Hog could provide some via one of his "sources".

I am somehow thinking this post is just another 'Mooseism'

 

[JPM London]

I'd say athletes (cyclists in particular) do plenty of things that can be considered heroic.

As for Cancellara, who cares if he's clean? He's still the best classics rider/time trialist in the world (although I'd watch out for Hushovd next spring).

I guess I shouldn't say "who cares if he's clean", I'm sure many people do. But it certainly doesn't change the fact that he's the best classics/TTist.

I def cares if he's clean. And as it seems Hushovd is regarded as a very clean rider in the peloton a victory in the classics next year by him would show FC could indeed be clean - at least that's my take. I know others have the take that since both riders have actually won races they are dopers. Or that since both riders are riders they are dopers. Or... Well, I give up.

I would also say that even the lanterne rouge is doing something heroic in my mind. Man, respect for that kind of suffering - he's actually suffered way longer than the winner in the end. If only just a single rider in the Tour is not on the juice it's a good bet he would be down there - still immense respect from me and a heroic feat!

Wasn't his nickname Mr 60%? No one could catch Riis that year.. Mig never had a chance

It's often related he was and I think it's noted in that book by that guy who's name I forget now - However it's also been said it was someone else (Chiappucci?, geez I'm really forgetting names now! Not a good sign...).

Although Riis has completely admitted all his doping, he's also said he wasn't Mr60% and that he never had as high hcts as some reported (I think 56% was his top).

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

But overall I'm just not as bothered by doping as most people are-- I suppose this gives me the luxury of being able to appreciate a great performance without over analyzing it. I'd certainly prefer a clean performance over a not so clean one, but I won't be devestated if it's the latter. How many think that Vino was clean this year? Doesn't change the fact that he had people glued to their television sets more than once or twice. Most people appreciate what he's able to do on the bike, PED's or not. Even the most staunch anti-doping fans will still tune in to watch him.

Altitude: great post. I wanted to say this, but you already had, so there is no point in repeating.
On a further note, I believe most guys are on something. Cancellara probably is also. But that does not make him less of a heroic, gallant, and amazing cyclist in my eyes.

 

[sniper]

Altitude: great post. I wanted to say this, but you already had, so there is no point in repeating.
On a further note, I believe most guys are on something. Cancellara probably is also. But that does not make him less of a heroic, gallant, and amazing cyclist in my eyes.

Situtation in Germany is quite different though. Many people here have lost their appetite for professional cycling, including me. Not that I think they're all criminals, I don't. Just that, don't know, I just lost interest intuitively due to the doping scam, and with me many others here in Germany. Also, many newspapers and TV-stations have stopped covering cycling races. So in the end, the doping definitely damages the sport, in spite of people like you who don't really care. Don't get me wrong, I fully respect that, and also in Germany there are of course still plenty of people crazy about (professional) cycling.

 

[JPM London]

Situtation in Germany is quite different though. Many people here have lost their appetite for professional cycling, including me. Not that I think they're all criminals, I don't. Just that, don't know, I just lost interest intuitively due to the doping scam, and with me many others here in Germany. Also, many newspapers and TV-stations have stopped covering cycling races. So in the end, the doping definitely damages the sport, in spite of people like you who don't really care. Don't get me wrong, I fully respect that, and also in Germany there are of course still plenty of people crazy about (professional) cycling.

Do you follow other sports?
Do you follow the Bundesliga for example?
What's your take on doping in other sports?
Do you believe they are cleaner or do you believe they are dirty, but since they're not testing as much it just doesn't get out?
Do you get my drift?

I'm all aware that cycling has a doping problem and I agree there's a credibility problem as too much has, and still is, being swept under the carpet - but in my opinion other sports are far worse as they are still deep, deep in denial...

I kinda admire the German media for taking a tough stand on doping in cycling - the sport needs tough love. But it's a bit hypocritical that there's no digging into doping in other sports. Cycling is taking a well deserved blame for letting down their riders and fans - but other sports should be scrutinised as well and to the same level. One can only hope that cycling is the beginning and that we in the coming decades will see a similar dismantling of doping in the likes of football etc.