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This proves one thing...

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Aug 6, 2009
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Heras, Hamilton, Landis etc and now Contador, riders who never tested positive while riding for Armstrongs team, but as soon as that association was over they were caught.
If they were caught when riding for usps/discovery/astana 09, I believe we never would have heard of it, as Landis intimated lance had a special relationship with the UCI.

Why weren't Contador's samples from the '08 Giro retro tested for CERA? Because that was part of the deal to get armstrong to ride the '09 Giro, what do you think was discussed when Zommegan flew to Texas to visit armstrong in his home in late 2008
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Moller said:
Heras, Hamilton, Landis etc and now Contador, riders who never tested positive while riding for Armstrongs team, but as soon as that association was over they were caught.
If they were caught when riding for usps/discovery/astana 09, I believe we never would have heard of it, as Landis intimated lance had a special relationship with the UCI.

Why weren't Contador's samples from the '08 Giro retro tested for CERA? Because that was part of the deal to get armstrong to ride the '09 Giro, what do you think was discussed when Zommegan flew to Texas to visit armstrong in his home in late 2008

It doesn't prove anything.

It could prove that Bruyneel's teams were religiously clean and riders strayed from the path when they left.

I don't believe this for a second, but there's no proof of anything. Don't get carried away
 
Mambo95 said:
It doesn't prove anything.

It could prove that Bruyneel's teams were religiously clean and riders strayed from the path when they left.

That is not a possibility. We know from Landis and others that there was team supported doping at Bruyneel's teams.

The obvious answer is that when riders have to organize their own doping program they are more likely to screw up than when it is handled by a dedicated staff.
 
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BroDeal said:
That is not a possibility. We know from Landis and others that there was team supported doping at Bruyneel's teams.

The obvious answer is that when riders have to organize their own doping program they are more likely to screw up than when it is handled by a dedicated staff.

First up, please don't miss out the bit where I say that my proposition is nonsense when you quote.

Secondly, my only point was that it was not 'proof' in any proper sense of the word.

Thirdly, your proposition is far more likely than the OP's original conspiracy theory.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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BroDeal said:
That is not a possibility. We know from Landis and others that there was team supported doping at Bruyneel's teams.

The obvious answer is that when riders have to organize their own doping program they are more likely to screw up than when it is handled by a dedicated staff.

There is only 1 thing that Floyd has ever proven. He lies. Everything else is under a current investigation. So you believe Floyd? fine. I don't and since none of his current allegations are proven yet we disagree and I want to see your proof and his.
So maybe in a couple of years we will have the whole story and counter story and re-implications and............:rolleyes:
Now as to the second paragraph I agree a well organized program is less fraught with the pitfalls of discovery and bad outcomes for the riders but again it is not proven to be the case with Bruyneel or any of his teams
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Bro Deal, do you really thing there isn't dedicated 'doping' staff at most teams?

Mambo95, it may be a conspiracy theory, but why did armstrong rather unbeliveably decide to ride the the 2009 Tour of Ireland?

As regarding getting carried away, of the last 5 winners of the Tour de France, one is dead from a drug overdose, one is subject to and FDA investigation, one is convicted for cheating and now Contador, the benefit of the doubt has long since passed away.
 
Master50 said:
There is only 1 thing that Floyd has ever proven. He lies.
So what? Armstrong lies. Armstrong has been proved to have doped, yet he continues to lie about it. At least Landis came clean. When will Armstrong do the same?

Riders and staff other than Landis have confirmed that there was organized doping at Postal. You don't have to take just Landis' word for it.
 
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Master50 said:
There is only 1 thing that Floyd has ever proven. He lies.

Wrong, he's also proved that a doper can stand on the top step of the podium in Paris, as they have done going back to 1991, at least
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Moller said:
Mambo95, it may be a conspiracy theory, but why did armstrong rather unbeliveably decide to ride the the 2009 Tour of Ireland?

Because they paid him a big appearance fee. Nothing sinister.

Why do you think he rode it?
 
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Mambo95 said:
Because they paid him a big appearance fee. Nothing sinister.

Why do you think he rode it?

As part of the deal to waive the rule about OOC testing to allow la ride in Australia the previous January?
something tells me you don't actually realise how dirty and corrupt cycling really is.
 
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Moller said:
As part of the deal to waive the rule about OOC testing to allow la ride in Australia the previous January?
something tells me you don't actually realise how dirty and corrupt cycling really is.

They may have waived that because of viewing figures. I'd do the same, to be honest - I doubt he was doping up for the TdU. Good business sense.

The Tour of Ireland paid cash. That's why it got reduced to three days and folded the next year.
 
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Moller said:
As part of the deal to waive the rule about OOC testing to allow la ride in Australia the previous January?
something tells me you don't actually realise how dirty and corrupt cycling really is.

They may have waived that because of viewing figures. I'd do the same, to be honest - I doubt he was doping up for the TdU. Good business sense.

The Tour of Ireland paid cash. That's why it got reduced to three days and folded the next year.

Rules can be bent a little when it's for the best.
 
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Mambo95 said:
They may have waived that because of viewing figures. I'd do the same, to be honest - I doubt he was doping up for the TdU. Good business sense.

The Tour of Ireland paid cash. That's why it got reduced to three days and folded the next year.

Rules can be bent a little when it's for the best.

best for who?
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Moller said:
best for who?

Cycling, particularly its profile outside its core areas.

It's not pretty, and if you're particularly self-righteous, it's not correct. But sometimes a little cutting of corners is worth it.

It's just business.

(I'm no LA defender BTW. I think he doped. But I'm pragmatic enough to understand what needs to be done when).
 
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Master50 said:
There is only 1 thing that Floyd has ever proven. He lies. Everything else is under a current investigation. So you believe Floyd? fine. I don't and since none of his current allegations are proven yet we disagree and I want to see your proof and his.
So maybe in a couple of years we will have the whole story and counter story and re-implications and............:rolleyes:
Now as to the second paragraph I agree a well organized program is less fraught with the pitfalls of discovery and bad outcomes for the riders but again it is not proven to be the case with Bruyneel or any of his teams

a bit off subject but none the less any chance i get i will repeat again and again. floyd is a p.o.s. he for years reaped the rewards of cycling doping the same as everyone else and getting paid he got caught put simply dont do the crime if you cant do the time. it is ok to come out and say i cheated others do as well. but to name names in a sport which was your lively hood after attempted blackmail to be able to race again in the t.o.c. is utterly disgusting. there is no real debate about la etc.. but floyd is a piece of **** on the highest order period. oh also he wrote books and stuff and had someone threaten lemond about child abuse nice guy. p.s. l.armstrongs a **** also but not a ****ing rat at least so far.
 
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Mambo95 said:
Cycling, particularly its profile outside its core areas.

It's not pretty, and if you're particularly self-righteous, it's not correct. But sometimes a little cutting of corners is worth it.

It's just business.

(I'm no LA defender BTW. I think he doped. But I'm pragmatic enough to understand what needs to be done when).

It's just business? That is one of the most pathetic rationalizations for unethical and corrupt behavior. Commercialism and corporatism are blights sucking resources and life from this planet. To some, such ends justifies the means pragmatism is acceptable. For others, truth, justice, equal opportunity, and fairness are ideals worth pursing; not just platitudes to be discussed in philosophy classrooms.

What do you believe needs to be done in cycling?

I am with Adam Myerson, who wrote on 5-20-2010, "So burn down Babylon. Burn pro cycling down. There will still be racing, there will still be races. Burn it down, so we can build it up again new. I condemn Landis' original decision to participate in a corrupt, immoral system. But I'll stand in front of the flames with him and watch it burn."
 
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forty four said:
a bit off subject.... p.s. l.armstrongs a **** also but not a ****ing rat at least so far.

Much remains to be seen about Armstrong, which hopefully comes into plain view for all to see. I have a hunch that if it does we may one day thank Landis for coming forward as he did. I don't dispute the character flaws evident in Landis' life and conduct to date. But, it is possible he is, at least in part, a product of a very corrupt and sinister culture.
 
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