- Mar 18, 2009
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Titus is Dead
- Thread starter BroDeal
- Start date
- May 20, 2010
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Although the recently released 29er did not receive glowing reports, I have loved the thought and care that via true artisans, has (for the most part) delivered apparently exceptional machines.
Please note I have not ridden one of the Titus machines. My limited knowledge restricted to reviews and rider feedback.
Sad to see loss of diversity at any time esp "works of art".
Please note I have not ridden one of the Titus machines. My limited knowledge restricted to reviews and rider feedback.
Sad to see loss of diversity at any time esp "works of art".
- Jul 18, 2010
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Titus lives.
Well, here are the official announcements from On-One (Planet X)
==================
On-One Buy Titus Bikes!
We've got a new bike.... company! The rumours are true. Dave Loughran, our intrepid leader went out to buy a new fax machine and came back with a new company. Why buy it from Argos when you can get one for free from Titus Bikes! That's right, we've purchased the brand, trademarks and assets of the legendary Titus Bikes, the purveyors of fine carbon and titanium bike porn.
To say that we're excited is a bit of an understatement. Think full suspension bling with spashes of carbon and titanium where it matters.
There is a lot of work for us to realise our ambitions so don’t expect any big headlines or re-launches this this side of* Christmas but we may have a little stock to sell in the mean time, so sign up to the newsletter to stay in the loop.
===================
And the more formal press release:
On-One Purchase of Titus Bikes Official Press Release
On One, the Mountain Bike Division of Planet X Ltd (Rotherham, UK) has acquired the brand, trade marks and assets of Titus Bikes Inc (Tempe, USA).* The Titus acquisition complements the On One range, with the addition of high quality full suspension models. By leveraging our experience in carbon and titanium bike development we intend to build on the already strong Titus range.
In addition the Titus brand and loyal customers will provide a boost to On One’s planned expansion into the US in 2011.
========================
Pretty exciting going ons. I was already on my way to Rotherham to discuss the future of On-One in the States when the Titus deal was started. There was and still is much more happening than has been publicly reported or even speculated about on the forums. I see a great respect for the Titus brand and heritage from the On-One staff and the owner, Dave. Going to be a fun ride.
Well, here are the official announcements from On-One (Planet X)
==================
On-One Buy Titus Bikes!
We've got a new bike.... company! The rumours are true. Dave Loughran, our intrepid leader went out to buy a new fax machine and came back with a new company. Why buy it from Argos when you can get one for free from Titus Bikes! That's right, we've purchased the brand, trademarks and assets of the legendary Titus Bikes, the purveyors of fine carbon and titanium bike porn.
To say that we're excited is a bit of an understatement. Think full suspension bling with spashes of carbon and titanium where it matters.
There is a lot of work for us to realise our ambitions so don’t expect any big headlines or re-launches this this side of* Christmas but we may have a little stock to sell in the mean time, so sign up to the newsletter to stay in the loop.
===================
And the more formal press release:
On-One Purchase of Titus Bikes Official Press Release
On One, the Mountain Bike Division of Planet X Ltd (Rotherham, UK) has acquired the brand, trade marks and assets of Titus Bikes Inc (Tempe, USA).* The Titus acquisition complements the On One range, with the addition of high quality full suspension models. By leveraging our experience in carbon and titanium bike development we intend to build on the already strong Titus range.
In addition the Titus brand and loyal customers will provide a boost to On One’s planned expansion into the US in 2011.
========================
Pretty exciting going ons. I was already on my way to Rotherham to discuss the future of On-One in the States when the Titus deal was started. There was and still is much more happening than has been publicly reported or even speculated about on the forums. I see a great respect for the Titus brand and heritage from the On-One staff and the owner, Dave. Going to be a fun ride.
BroDeal said:So the name will live on, but will it be the same? Planet X appears to be value oriented rather than high end.
Isn't buying a mountain bike from the UK like buying ice from Egypt?
Should it be the same? "Value-oriented" shouldn't be a pejorative, nor should "high end" have much to do with price (unless the object has more to do with conspicuous consumption than buying a good bike).
From where I'm sitting it looks like Titus were a victim of their own success in selling the brand of "boutique bikes" more than continually improving the bikes themselves. The level of engineering sophistication of mass market frames from the likes of Giant and Trek has vastly outstripped small operators like Titus, and now that these same companies have suspension designs that arguably outperform the plain old Horst link, descriptions like "high end" start smelling a bit "high". And in the context of the GFC, the pool of punters willing to pay thousands of dollars for a functional and nicely made but otherwise agricultural bike must have shrunk markedly. Are pretty welds really worth double the asking price, for a bike that's going to be ridden through water, sand and mud, crashed through rock gardens and into shrubbery, stuck on a trunk rack or thrown in the back of a ute (pickup) in that filthy condition with a pile of your friends' bikes on a weekly basis?
- Feb 10, 2010
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OEM Oriented
Nothing I'm seeing on their website suggests they do anything other than reselling Asian-sourced equipment. Looking at the Titus bikes, I don't see anything that isn't built by the OEM's in China or Taiwan. It looks like the deal gives On One the volume they need to get into full suspension mountain bikes with an OEM.
If the new owner is charitable to Titus' customers any warranty issues will be handled by making whatever their OEM builds for them available at a low replacement cost. They don't have to be charitable. Many distressed sales like this are not kind to the previous owner's customers.
You can now buy slight variations of the same bike from bikesdirect, Kona, Blue, Condor, and now Titus/On One. There are others bike brands that fit in this category too. It's just that these are very obvious OEM'd product.
Nothing I'm seeing on their website suggests they do anything other than reselling Asian-sourced equipment. Looking at the Titus bikes, I don't see anything that isn't built by the OEM's in China or Taiwan. It looks like the deal gives On One the volume they need to get into full suspension mountain bikes with an OEM.
If the new owner is charitable to Titus' customers any warranty issues will be handled by making whatever their OEM builds for them available at a low replacement cost. They don't have to be charitable. Many distressed sales like this are not kind to the previous owner's customers.
You can now buy slight variations of the same bike from bikesdirect, Kona, Blue, Condor, and now Titus/On One. There are others bike brands that fit in this category too. It's just that these are very obvious OEM'd product.
On-One frames are not catalog designs with new decals. Each one is unique to On-One and designed in England (if you think there in no mtbing in the UK you have not been paying attention). The emphasis is on providing a bike that performs well at a price you can afford. Design standards, materials and build quality is similar to the major brands with the cost saving of user direct sales.DirtyWorks said:
This is a company of people that love bikes, ride bikes, design bikes, and make a living doing it.
Titus will live on and there is no intension to just rebadge other designs as Titus. The sorting out of inventory and suppliers has just started. Direction of the brand is being discussed and nothing has been decided as of yet.
Except for this: Current Titus owners will be supported and US production is a high priority. More info with be released as it is known in coming days.
-shiggy
- Feb 10, 2010
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Pet Peeves
And then produced by an OEM in China or Taiwan. The same OEM's do most bikes. Don't obfuscate the simple facts On One buys OEM built in the same jigs with the same jig constraints as the rest of the Western resellers.
To keep a reselling business viable, the first priority is to buy low and sell high. Unless legacy Titus customers are buying On One product, supporting legacy Titus customers is a luxury.
A wait and see approach is probably best.
shiggy said:
And then produced by an OEM in China or Taiwan. The same OEM's do most bikes. Don't obfuscate the simple facts On One buys OEM built in the same jigs with the same jig constraints as the rest of the Western resellers.
I've never said there wasn't. On One gets some OEM volume with the Titus deal. That's the only claim I made.shiggy said:
Eeerily similar to bikesdirect... Could it be On One is doing what BikesDirect does only the home market is the UK? It's not a bad business model. However, trying to sell the idea that some bike design magic happens at On One is dishonest. Maybe On One's component mix ends up being a product that has better market acceptance. Good for On One. However, it's not 'R&D' magic. Selling the idea ordering from an OEM is R&D magic is, for me, dishonest.shiggy said:
Titus wasn't? What about the thousands of other small businesses trying to make it in their chosen sports business? Most of them fail too. Breaking news: 'loving bikes' is not a precursor to making a successful product/business. In fact, from the business side, it's a hindrance.shiggy said:
Why not? It's the essence of what On One does. It's not a bad thing. Great product comes out of Taiwan and China. It's not innovative, but it can be very good. If Titus had U.S. production, then it would be **very** expensive to keep compared to sourcing from an Asian OEM. It would be great if they did keep it, but wow that would be expensive.shiggy said:
Except "supported" can mean lots of things ranging from actually making Titus' previous customers happy to generally abandoning them as 'legacy product.' The wordier the communique, the more likely legacy customers will be abandoned.shiggy said:
To keep a reselling business viable, the first priority is to buy low and sell high. Unless legacy Titus customers are buying On One product, supporting legacy Titus customers is a luxury.
A wait and see approach is probably best.
Same factories, yes. Same designs, no. All On-One frame designs are by and for On-One and no one else.DirtyWorks said:
On-One does sell user direct, which allows us to offer good bikes at a great value.
Again, we do not sell off the shelf, catalog frames. We design them and then work with outside vendors to have them made. No claims of "magic", just that we are offering bikes made the way we like at an affordable price.
Yes, Titus was. At least until the investment companies bought into it.
Planet X has been around since 1991 (like Titus). We have been almost totally self-funded. No major investors other than our founder, Dave Loughran. The operating capital comes out of his pocket, as did the cash to buy Titus.
The "loving bikes" part is important, as it means we understand the industry better than the non-industry investment firms, such as those that in the past have bought Schwinn, GT, Cannondale...
No, it is not what we do. I repeat: On-One frames are designed by us, for us. There is no rebadging of any "catalog" frame for public sale.
There have been a few off the shelf full suspension frames that had On-One decals applied, just for grins, but they were never sold as a production model.
Some past On-One models were US made, too, and sold at great prices.
We intend to keep some Titus production in the US. Much of it had already been sent to Asia.
We are not following the GT/Pacific model. Nobody will be abandoned.
Planet X / On-One has an very open development process. You will be able to see it all.
- Mar 18, 2009
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Jeebus! I am so tired of this crap about how "we do all the design and send it off to the dumb chinamen to build." This is not Apple, which creates innovative products on the cutting edge of technology and the value of its products is mostly the software. It is freakin' bicycle frames. Who should you to trust to do the best design? Some guy in a cubicle 10,000 miles away from the factory or a Chinese engineer with the equivalent training whose office is at the factory and who is intimately familiar with problems and quirks of the production process? Yet somehow we are supposed to place extra value on the work of the far off white guy.
I am still not seeing how a value oriented company--not that there is anything wrong with that--will do anything with the formerly high end Titus other than milking its reputation until the public catches on that the company is no longer the same.
I am still not seeing how a value oriented company--not that there is anything wrong with that--will do anything with the formerly high end Titus other than milking its reputation until the public catches on that the company is no longer the same.
- Apr 29, 2010
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shiggy said:
Not that we need to pile on these guys anymore, but DirtyWorks articulated everything I find ridiculous and frustrating about the bike industry.
When I hear stuff about the company employees loving bikes and riding, I usually think--oh their products are probably over priced because they are out riding instead of working half the time. I want a company where the employees "love mechanical engineering and material sciences", not riding bikes and coming up with marketing BS.
- Jul 17, 2009
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All the humanistic hogwash aside, it is a good business move.
on one not innovative enough for you lot?
well this looks pretty sweet. but you euros and commonwealth chest beaters can't grasp the 29er
picture by way of the man, guitar Ted at http://www.twentynineinches.com
on one not innovative enough for you lot?
well this looks pretty sweet. but you euros and commonwealth chest beaters can't grasp the 29er
picture by way of the man, guitar Ted at http://www.twentynineinches.com
The Carbon 29er Race pictured above will be shipping to riders in Feb '11.flyor64 said:
More details here (scroll down to #3) plus info on our other upcoming 29ers:
http://on-one.co.uk/news/products/q/date/2010/11/12/twentynine-inches-report
And check the frame section for the 26" bikes, which include the carbon race Whippet and Carbon 456 long travel hardtail. Both are available now.
http://on-one.co.uk/frames
- Apr 29, 2010
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Boeing said:All the humanistic hogwash aside, it is a good business move.
on one not innovative enough for you lot?
well this looks pretty sweet. but you euros and commonwealth chest beaters can't grasp the 29er
picture by way of the man, guitar Ted at http://www.twentynineinches.com
Looks like a road bike.
- Feb 10, 2010
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I'm with Boeing, it's about material sciences and mechanical engineering. The difficulty in innovating is so much greater with 'ordinary' objects like a bicycle.
I'll say it again, reselling Asian product is a fine business model as people's interests are so many and varied there's a legitimate opportunity for someone that wants to take the risk of importing/service product with your name on it to be rewarded for the effort. The quality from Asia is impeccable in many cases too.
What sets me and others off is inflating basic reselling and trying to call it R&D.
I'll say it again, reselling Asian product is a fine business model as people's interests are so many and varied there's a legitimate opportunity for someone that wants to take the risk of importing/service product with your name on it to be rewarded for the effort. The quality from Asia is impeccable in many cases too.
What sets me and others off is inflating basic reselling and trying to call it R&D.
- Mar 18, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Not to sound too obtuse, but this isn't the first time I've heard "buy cheap direct from Taiwan and/or China".
How much substance is there to this?
Has anyone here done this? I'd be worried about shipping damage, robustness of the frame during use, and follow-on support if there were an issue.
But if the price is right...well, the price is right.
- Mar 18, 2009
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flyor64 said:
You can buy a carbon frame/fork for less than $500 including the $70 - $80 shipping from Taiwan to your house in the U.S. You get to select the carbon finish (3K, 12K, marbled, UD) and the clear coat (glossy, matte, etc.). Get together with friends, order ten, and the price reduction plus combined shipping should bring the per frame cost below $400.
There are huge threads about this over at RBR. Lots of people have bought frames, mostly from Yishun. Judging be the number of posts, which is thousands in several threads, this thing is catching on. I guess people are tired of companies charging first world prices for third world goods.
Plastic--err, carbon--frames from China are cheaper than crap. It is amazing that people are paying marketing operations masquerading as bike manufacturers ten to twenty times more than what the frames are worth. Heck, Cervelo does not even have their stuff made in Taiwan. It's made in China, and they are ripping people for north of four Gs for frames that must cost $200 to make.
This is why I can respect the "value" companies that are springing up if they are honest about what they are doing. Their business model basically breaks down to providing a good quality product at cheap prices with excellent customer service.
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