"To be fair", "Let's be honest", etc.

[Cancellator]

In the last few months I've noticed how expressions like "To be fair", "Let's be honest" and variants thereof have been plaguing spoken language and even Internet forums.

They are being used in wider and wider contexts, to the point that they don't add anything to the phrase at all. Seriously, next time you see one of these used, cross it out and reread the phrase. It will probably sound better.

I know, sometimes it's hard to come up with connectors and ways to keep your speech going, but abuse of "to be... , let's be..., fair enough" is not the way to go. Especially as most of the people I've heard talking like this are native English speakers.

This is becoming really annoying, it makes me cringe every time I hear someone utter those words. And lately it is very, very often. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Martin318is]

They are just part of the school of nonsense words - like writing "IMHO" on something that is massively arrogant and argumentative and hoping people will interpret it without returning in kind.

IMHO...

 

[auscyclefan94]

Another thing that technology is destroying is the English language. Technology makes people lazy and greedy.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Another thing that technology is destroying is the English language.

Lol, I remember my father saying the same thing back in the 1960s about rock music, how it ws destroying the english language (and our morals, too as I recall).

Somehow both we and the language have managed to survive.

Susan

 

[auscyclefan94]

Lol, I remember my father saying the same thing back in the 1960s about rock music, how it ws destroying the english language (and our morals, too as I recall).

Somehow both we and the language have managed to survive.

Susan

The amount of people who do not know when to use capital letters or how to spell basic words is a result of social media. 3 letters can convey a phrase to somebody now instead of using the actual words. Also, ask a university or any business how spelling and grammar are compared to 30 years ago to now. I think we both know the answer to that question.

I also would agree with your father regarding his comment about morals.

Society as whole is becoming more lazy and more greedy because we want everything we want, exactly when we want it.

 

[Spider1964]

The amount of people who do not know when to use capital letters or how to spell basic words is a result of social media. 3 letters can convey a phrase to somebody now instead of using the actual words. Also, ask a university or any business how spelling and grammar are compared to 30 years ago to now. I think we both know the answer to that question.

I also would agree with your father regarding his comment about morals.

Society as whole is becoming more lazy and more greedy because we want everything we want, exactly when we want it.

May I also add a lack of empathy.

Some people (young & old), have no regard for the feelings of others.. Or how their words or actions impact on others. The Internet, social networking and computer games have all contributed in some way to this decline in basic manners.

 

[hrotha]

I know, right, like, when was the last time a "lord" kept the bread? It's a travesty I'm telling you.

It's language. Language changes.

For what it's worth (hey I'm sure you hate this expression too!), I don't think constructions like "to be fair" are abused. I'd say it still retains its meaning (i.e. "you have a point, but in this case...").

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I also would agree with your father regarding his comment about morals.

Well, does society influence music, or does the music influence society?

I doubt young people heard the Rolling Stones sing "Let's spend the night togehter" (which was VERY controverslal at the time) and suddenly thought, Oh gosh, this means we can have sex!!!

The more likely cause of the so-called Sexual Revolution was the development of the birth control pill.

Susan

 

[Amsterhammer]

Oh dear. It will come as no surprise that I wholeheartedly agree with the old(er) farts here.

My father was probably a lot like Susan's father with his opinions about the influence of modern music. He also taught me from an early age to be a language pedant, and to treat the written word with respect. It has been a depressing learning curve for me to have to accept that the vast majority of people posting their thoughts and opinions on the webz clearly don't give a hoot about how they write, or about what others think about 'how' they write.

It still annoys the hell out of me when I see clearly intelligent people not willing to make the small effort required to construct paragraphs, and to check what they've written before posting. Worst of all are people whose posts are full of obvious, glaring typos, and who can't be bothered to use capital letters where they belong. (I am not talking about non-native speakers making spelling mistakes!) I've lost count of the number of regular posters around here, many with huge post counts, who seem to think that the upper case is some historical folly that should be ignored. These are many of the same people who cannot be bothered to take 10 seconds after they finish writing to correct their typos, and instead simply post something that looks horrible and is annoying to read.

Certainly, much of this sloppiness and lack of respect for the language has been brought about by the texting times of recent years, but there is no excuse in my book for most of the horrible liberties that many take with the language nowadays.

 

[DominicDecoco]

To be fair, it can be rather annoying to 'overuse' expressions like these. So, to be honest, I think this could become a great thread.

 

[hrotha]

(I am not talking about non-native speakers making spelling mistakes!)

Unless you're like Cancellara, who clearly learned the language by immersion and not by studying it in an academic setting, that's precisely the kind of mistake a non-native speaker is not likely to make.

Certainly, much of this sloppiness and lack of respect for the language has been brought about by the texting times of recent years, but there is no excuse in my book for most of the horrible liberties that many take with the language nowadays.

You should take a look at medieval manuscripts. They're full of abbreviations.

Text speech is not the problem with poor spelling and grammar.

 

[Christian]

I am currently studying the evolution of words from Classical Latin to vulgar Latin to modern day Spanish and I can tell you it is one long story of getting lazier and lazier But that's the way it goes and I don't think you can say languages are better or worse now than they were 2000 years ago.

As for the internet language. Different communities use different styles, this is an internet community so you'll find internet-specific styles of English. It's fascinating though how sometimes these styles that are conceived as "lesser" have quite complex rules, like Ebonics or Kiez. From a personal perspective I can say that the Internet and technology have brought a great change to Luxembourgish because people nowadays write it much more than they used to. I assume it's the same for many small languages

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Language is a means of communication so if i can understand i don't really mind it.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Unless you're like Cancellara, who clearly learned the language by immersion and not by studying it in an academic setting, that's precisely the kind of mistake a non-native speaker is not likely to make.

You should take a look at medieval manuscripts. They're full of abbreviations.

Text speech is not the problem with poor spelling and grammar.

I will resist the temptation to start with 'to be honest'.

I did not mention the word 'abbreviation', nor is that my main bugbear. But I do believe that the widespread use of texting, and the whole way of thinking that it engenders, is the major contributory factor to much of the sloppiness that we see here and on the webz in general.

I have long ago learned not to hold others to the standards of spelling and grammar that I try to set for myself, but what really does p!ss me off is people who systematically refuse to use capital letters where appropriate, and whob levae misplacedx letters and dyslexic typos in their texts despite the fact that they must have noticed them.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

When someone writes or says, "to be perfectly honest ......" , it makes me wonder if they have been lying to me beforehand.

Susan

 

[The Hitch]

Lol, I remember my father saying the same thing back in the 1960s about rock music, how it ws destroying the english language (and our morals, too as I recall).

Somehow both we and the language have managed to survive.

Susan

Neither of those will survive so called "rap music".

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Lol, no doubt my grandparents said the same thing about whatever it was my parent's generation listened to.

Susan

 

[slowoldman]

I must admit that Amsterhammer and I actually agree on something. I am actually quite surprised by this occurrence.

 

[nvpacchi]

It's all newspeak... Orwell was right

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Another thing that technology is destroying is the English language. Technology makes people lazy and greedy.

...and unable to communicate/interact with people face to face. People today communicate so much today by texting, facebooking, (cycling forums ), and so on that face to face communication is becomming a lost art. For example, as a result of this, police acadamies now are starting to teach cadets how to read people when confronted face to face, like tone of voice, body language, eyes, what they do with their hands, etc. But that's another subject.

But BOT, LBH, IMO this form of communicating can be used as a method to maintain civility. Just as long as it is not over cooked.
Translation: This form of communicating can be used as a method to maintain civility. Just as long as it is not over cooked.
I like the second option better.

 

[hrotha]

Personally I think that's nonsense. Online communication hasn't replaced offline communication, it has created more communication situations (which didn't exist previously) in addition to the offline types that we still have. People don't chat with people online instead of talking to them face to face, in general (and with exceptions), they chat with them when they're idly sitting at their houses, at a time when, in the past, they wouldn't communicate at all.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I must admit that Amsterhammer and I actually agree on something. I am actually quite surprised by this occurrence.

You're surprised? I'm shocked.

I can't for the life of me remember any particular disagreements we might have had...but then, I never had a photographic memory, and am now slowly going senile, according to some.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I must admit that Amsterhammer and I actually agree on something. I am actually quite surprised by this occurrence.

LOL. I'm actually not surprised he and I agree on something. Well, Amsterhammer, you must be some kind of language teacher/professor, or some other kind of think tanker.

 

[ElChingon]

To be frank, I blame everyone who's posted in this thread above this. Why? You know its happening and you let it. To start in this forum, people reply to these or those posts as if acepted language. Ignore it and those posters will eventually get it. But no you all fall for the English language fictional internet animals.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

To be frank, I blame everyone who's posted in this thread above this. Why? You know its happening and you let it. To start in this forum, people reply to these or those posts as if acepted language. Ignore it and those posters will eventually get it. But no you all fall for the English language fictional internet animals.

But the people who try to correct or guide the use of language are seen as villains of the piece, as enemies. They're derided as grammar nazis, regardless of whether their gripe is anything to do with grammar.

To me, overuse of phrases like "to be fair", "to be honest" etc are not the result of internet slang or texting, but are simply things that get said all the time. In human conversation we can say a lot with our tone of voice, that written conversation can't convey. That's where emoticons and acronyms have come in. Who can honestly say that they are genuinely "laughing out loud" when they type "lol"? Or is it just a way of denoting that the sentence they stated (or are about to state) isn't to be taken wholly seriously? Something that would be plain to see (or hear) in spoken conversation.

The evolution of language through the internet is not so much the result of texting or forumspeak, but it's more the adapting of the written language to approximate the informal nature of spoken communication. Who speaks in fully formed, grammatically correct sentences? You will note that, the more serious (and lengthy) the discussion, the more like standard written English the posts become. Posters who speak in abbreviations, TLJ and txt tlk are criticised and asked to post more understandably. Some spelling mistakes or grammatical errors can pass; habitual ones, or multiple ones in a short space of time, raise ire or impede understanding.